I know we’ve talked about hinge templates (and I have a template that works well for me), but I don’t recall talking about templates for the latch/strike plate.
So far I’ve been doing them with a utility knife and chisel. It only takes just a few minutes, but sometimes I really have to fight with the grain to get a nice neat mortise. I’d like to use a template and a router if only to reduce the stress factor. I don’t really expect a much better job or even much time savings.
So anybody use a template that they like or is everyone still “old school” like me(that’s a euphemism for “too cheap to buy another template and bit”)
Replies
Hey Don,
I believe Templaco makes them for less than $60.
I have a Porter Cable plastic one (like the hinge unit I've used a bunch) but I've never had the balls to try it.
And I've had it for at least 6-7 years.
The PC one works just fine. Be careful you don't gouge it with the bit, although you can fill and fix with bondo. Also, you can make your own outta 3/4" melamine.
hey, Glenn-
looks like I'll be moving up to Wanaque the beginning of next year. My DW's got the minister job at Wanaque Community Church.
I'd like to ask you to give me a short tour of the area sometime, and tell me where the important stuff is- like where to get a good cup of coffee, where's a good place for a sandwich...
Boy are you out of luck. I don't deal with liberals!No, seriously, I would be happy to show you as much as I can. But unfortunately, I have never had a cup of coffee in my life. My wife just started drinking it a year ago, but she only drinks DD French Vanilla.Again, I usually bring my lunch. Not always, but on the fly I usually look for a Quiznos. Just easier sometimes than taking a chance on a deli.I saw you last Sunday in your car trying to make a left on Ringwood Ave from the church. It was between 12 and 1:00. Sorry, couldn't stop to chat. But yesterday you were home much earlier I guess.But let me know when you want to go around. Be more than happy to show you whatever I can.Glenn
I'm still going to church down here most of the time, but last Sunday there was a birthday party for one of the church ladies in Wanaque. She's 90, and still very active.
So DW said I should be there.
When you saw me, we were headed over to take a look at the parsonage on Rhinesmith Rd. ? (I think that's the street) I do know the street off Ringwood that we turned left onto is Railroad.
Thanks for the e-mail, and offer. I'll take you up on it sometime.
Yeah, I looked it up. 60 Rhinesmith. I think the guy next door is a carpenter, Fred Solo.You don't go to church where your wife preaches? Uh oh.I may not know much about coffee, but I know where to get the beer!They may not know my name, but they know me.Glenn
I WILL be going to church up there eventually. I'm not crazy. But they just made it official last week that she will be their minister.
I'm still attending with the church where I grew up, until we move.
edit to include- oh,yeah! Beer good!
Edited 11/3/2008 10:03 pm ET by Shep
You gotta move far from where you are now?
Exit 54 on I-287.
About 45 minutes north of here.
Without traffic.
Up near Ringwood? Ummmmm....Tuxedo Park?
Wanaque. Between Pompton Lakes and Ringwood.Glenn
Ummmm... I believe that exit 55.Glenn
you Republicans always wanna be right <G>
Welllllllll...We are right.Yous guys are left.But I'm more of a centrist anyway. Not real happy with either side.Glenn
Thanks for all of the suggestions and thanks Shep, for you offer to do me some learning.
I picked up the Porter Cable templates, there's one for hinges and one for strikes/latches. They're very versatile and will work for a wide variety of door hardware.
I practiced on a few mortises and they came out pretty good. The mortise could be a little snugger, but it's really fine as is. I'm happy with them, especially for the price. They were about $25 each, which sounds like a lot for a piece of plastic, but each set also includes a router bit so I think it's a pretty good value.
I like the PC templates. Unfortunately, the router bits wear out pretty quick, being HSS.
If I have just 1 or 2 to do, I do the utility knife/ chisel method, too.
BUT, I also have the Lie-Nielson butt mortice plane. Its very handy for quickly getting the mortice depth right.
Dammit! Another one you got that I don't!I've always been curious about that plane. Do you have to score the sides of the cut first? I mortise my latch plates same way I do my hinges, hold the plate backwards in the spot on the jamb with one hand so it lays flat, and then lightly score the edges about 1/8" deep with a utility knife, cut away the scored edges at an angle from the inside then slap you router on it. You get used to it, it takes seconds to do.
I know I could (should) get or make templates to save a minute or two, but I been doing it this way for so long that I won't justify the expense of a good set-up.Besides,it gives me an excuse to sequester myself to the workbench for a few and hone my chisels the night before.
That's pretty much how I do my hinge and strike mortices. If I have a whole house of doors, I'll get out my routers, with one set for the hinges, and one set for the door strikes.
If I have one or two, I use the mortice plane. It's sweet. I do mark the outline with a utility knife, but then its pretty quick work with the plane to mortice it in. I do wish it had a depth adjustment for the blade, instead of having to tap it to set. But that's a minor quibble.
I've thought about getting a hinge jig, but I'm pretty quick with the way I do it now. I did break down and get a lock boring jig a couple of years ago. I can't believe how much faster that goes now.
Oh yeah, about tools- do you have any of the Chestnut clam clamps? I've got 6. They're great for assembling larger casings.
I have a butt mortise plane that predates the LN, but looks pretty much just like it. I think I bought it in '82.VERY handy, but it could be better. I like to set to full depth once and go, rather than reset for each mortise or set of mortises.But the 3/4" cutter is too wide to go to 1/8" deep in one pass. So I bought a cheapo 1/2" chisel, very thin. Yanked the handle off and threw it away, then ground the blade even thinner until it would fit under the cap iron.Now, if I tilt the plane a bit to hog out a few rough V-grooves first, I can then lay it flat, and mortise to the full depth, which I set by holding the hinge/strike up to the blade-protrusion on the bottom of the plane.That's pretty good, but there still are some problems. For one thing, you still have to do a fair amount of chopping-out of waste first. For another, the plane is 1 1/2" wide, and even the stock iron is only 3/4" wide. That's 3/8" from the side of the plane to the blade. So if you're working on a rabbetted jamb, or one with an already-applied stop, you can't get close enough to the edge of the mortise.My ideal solution would be to use a notched cutter, similar to a tongue cutter on an old Stanley 45, say. Make the cutter as full-width as you can, and possibly redesign the body of the plane to make it into a rabbet plane about 3/4” wide, and a notched full-width blade with two 3/16” cutting edges.The goal would be to cut close to, maybe even flush with, the sides of the plane, while taking a minimal-width, but full-depth, bite. In an early (1977?) FWW, Tage Frid showed how to make a mortising plane. I think it had a laminated body. Pretty close to what I’d like, but I’ve never seen a forked cutter used. Maybe I’ll make one, and be the first!AitchKay
I met Tom Lie-Nielson years ago at a woodworking club meeting. He asked which plane in his line up was never made by Stanley. It was the butt mortice. I think he said it was made originally by Sargent.
Templaco makes all of them.
http://www.templaco.com/html/categories.asp?category=Latch+and+Strike
On this page they have repair parts that could be easily used to make you own templates.
http://www.templaco.com/html/categories.asp?category=Template+Parts
Those Templaco templates sure look nice, but they're a bit pricey. I'm not sure how the repair kit is used to make a template, but I can see how useful the center locater would be. Of course, it's very easy to make a center locater or I can just secure the latch plate itself and then eyeball the gap around it.
I admire the talents of anyone who can keep a plane properly sharp and adjusted. I need to work on my sharpening skills, so until then, I think I'll pass on the plane idea. If I don't have good sharpening skills, how do I keep my chisels sharp? Actually, I don't. I just buy a new one of moderate quality like a Stanley and relegate the old one to service-duty.
I may give the PC template a try. The one downside I can see is that I'll need to have 2 routers on the job. One for the hinges and another for the latch plate. I have 8 doors to replace. I like to work 1 door at a time start to finish. That means that with 1 router, I would be re-setting it for each door. That's an extra step that I'd like to avoid. But it's OK because I do have an extra router that I can set up.
Thanks for all of the replies.
Doing a strike with a few hand tools is probably faster than setting up a router & jig. Keeping a chisel or plane iron sharp is easier than you might think. The first thing I would suggest is to buy better quality chisels & pick up a book on sharpening. Those skills will serve you well in other areas of work.
PC template works great. I do about 20-30 doors a year with it. Everyone turns out perfect. Just get your depth correct with a scrap piece before you go to the door. The other great thing is it's adjustable for different sizes.
Chuck
Exactly.Wow! Barr chisels! You like 'em?
Jer,
I've been very happy with the Barr chisels. They rate right up there with Lie Neilsen & Ray Iles, but not quite as good as some of the Japanese.
If you buy a templaco template and see how they are made you would know how to make your own with those parts.
But it sounds like you are just doing a few so doing the way you are is fine.
I do latch plates by screwing the plate on the jamb and scribing around it.
I used to have templates for everything but don't need them any more.
I did make a hinge template recently so I could use my router. All the hinges in this house are 3 1/2" so I can use it on all of them.
all the doors were tight so I plane off the hinge side and deepen the mortises. I got tired of doing by hand.
Your method of screwing the plate to the jamb & scribing around is how I start out. Then I use my PC trimmer w/a 1/4" bit to free hand most of the space and finally clean out the last little bit with a chisel. I don't do many doors but it works for me.
Paul
I have a small hand router I use for the depth. Smaller than the one pictured. It helps with the depth of the mortice. With the power router I get sloppy and go outside the lines.
Give me a call sometime. You can come over my house, and I'll teach you the basics of sharpening in an hour ( or less).
Once you know how to sharpen chisels and plane irons, the world's your oyster.
I keep my chisels and planes sharp as a rule, but I also have a few semi-sharp beaters, and I'm happy with that, too.I wouldn't say that I have any special sharpening talent, but I have purchased a few honing jigs which were well worth the money.I tend to hone dry, on a tablesaw top, with sandpaper. Coarse grits get to be expensive in the long run, so I have a coarse diamond stone, too, but that's not at all necessary. First, try sandpaper to sharpen your blades, then decide if you are interested in doing this often enough in the long term to justify the further expense of a diamond stone.Silicon carbide paper is tough, and will do the job. 220 grit and some patience is a good jobsite substitute for a grinding wheel. I proceed through 320, 400, and 600 grits (sometimes up to 1500 grit), before moving to crocus cloth to get a mirror finish.A couple of sheets of each of these grits will only cost you a few bucks, so it's well worth experimenting. I have had good luck with both the Eclipse and the Veritas honing jigs.I keep a few sheets of sandpaper in a folder along with an 8 12" x 11" piece of 1/8" ply (to make sure that the sandpaper doesn't get crumpled). It takes up almost no space in my briefcase, but I always have a complete sharpening kit on board.And I'll repeat: I have no special sharpening talent, just a couple of jigs and some sandpaper.Aitchkay
The trouble with store bought templates whether hinge, strike, or anything else is that every job seems to be just a slightly different size.
Make your own templates using scraps of MDF. It doesn't have grain like solid wood or voids like plywood.
You will also need a router bit with a top bearing.
On top of the piece that will be the template the hardware is placed and more scraps of MDF are bumped up tight to three sides or all four depending on hinge or strike.
Then pull the hardware and plunge into the template using the top scraps to guide the bearing of the router. You then have a perfect fit for your unigue piece of hardware.
A strike uses a short piece of MDF, a series of hinges uses a long piece of MDF. Scraps of thin ply are used to shim up on exterior jambs.
Just an update:
I just finished installing 7 new doors which is why I brought up the question about templates. It took me about 1-1/2 days which is record time for me. The job called for replacing old hollow core doors with 6-panel solid pine doors. I used the Porter Cable hinge template and strike/latch template and I was very pleased with them. Thanks to those that suggested them. They were very easy to use and made nice crisp mortises. It practically looks like they were done by a professional :-).
One thing that made it a little easier was to use a plunge router. That way, I could get the router up to speed in place before plunging. Otherwise, the router has to be lowered into the template with the risk of nicking the template.
One of my customers had given me a Ryobi plunge router they had bought a few years ago thinking that they were going to get into wood work, but never did. It worked well. I have 2 other routers, but neither of those are plunge routers.
Congrats, Don.Don't feel bad. I'm am definitely no speed demon, so it probably would have taken me at least that long.The only thing I can say, if it hasn't been said before, is that you have to make sure that the distance you set the jig in from the edge of the door is the same as set in from the edge of the jamb.The first time I did it, the door ended up hitting the hinge side door stop.The second time, I figured it out.I don't have a plunge router (yet) and have made it work.Glenn