We are on the design phase of our new home (2000 sq feet) and we have asked the designer to put the laundry room on a place that can be accessed through the master room closet (aside from some hallway).
We got the first floor plan and almost everyone who has seen it has asked why we want the laundry room there.
It makes perfect sense to us but everyone questioning it has made us worry a bit, is there something we should be concerned about?
We have of course taken into consideration the noise and will be adding a lot of sound proofing into that room.
Thanks,
–Carlos
Replies
is there something we should be concerned about?
Probably the perception that a laundry room is a "multi user" room, which might include others than only the residents of the master bedroom. And, that having those other parties traipse through the master bedroom, and closet, to wash things might be awkward.
It might be worth your while, while this is all naught but lines and shapes, to think through the steps of getting bed linens, kitchen towels, table linens, etc. through to the laundry area. Not a bad idea to think about where sheets & such will be folded, befor bringing the folded items back out, through the master closet, to where they belong.
Now, a pass-through from closet to laundry can make a lot of sense.
Oh, and fair warning, in many parts of the country, the laundry room often abuts the mud room (or doubles as one), which makes for an odd place to have a master bedroom suite area (and you may get a question or two thereby).
That help any?
The laundry room has access from a hall way and also from the master bedroom closet, so I don't know that traffic would be an issue?
The initial idea was to just have some sort of flap so that we could dump clothes from the close to the laundry room but then why not just make a door?Now being a split bedroom design we do have the issue of the kids clothes being at the other side of the house..... but on either case some bedroom is going to be on the opposite end vs the laundry room.We didn't really want the mudroom to double as laundry room, and we aren't making a full mud room either, more like a big cabinet on one of the walls when entering from the garage, with hooks and some storage but still sort of part of that hall way.
So why not locate the laundry near the kids?
They generate more dirty clothes.
They'll get to see that clean clothes don't appear "by magic"!
Your privacy is preserved.
You can keep an eye on the little buggers every time you go by their rooms to do laundry!
buic
Edited 4/16/2008 9:58 pm ET by BUIC
Good point, but we don't have kids yet....We were thinking of maybe adding a space close to the kids room for a stackable washer and dryer..... might be hard to do though, then again we will almost for sure have an extra set on the basement when those rooms are finished.
Friend of mine did some sheet rock in a multi-million dollar home remodel. One of the the changes was any a washer/dry to the mBR closet.But that was for personal laundry.The main washer/dry was down by the maids room..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
But that was for personal laundry.
Now, see, that's something that bugs me about all the new, water-saving, quieter, power-svaing w/d's out there--they only seem to come in large or huge size.
You want smaller, your choices seem to drop to dinky & junky or tiny & junky apartment-abuse-only units.
You have a dinner, and have only tablecloth, napkins, and kitchen towels--that's a small load (mostly) to go heave into the 15# machines (but a PITA to haul up or down to the machines).
But I may be alone in my thoughts in this.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
i've got a really nice, small samsung frontloader.
and the kit that allows you to stack the dryer on top.
it's in a purpose built 26x26 closet in my bathroom, which i think is the place that makes the most sense. i used the stainless hoses, but those floodsaver thins don't come that small. i'm going to look into the valve with the sensor that someone mentioned.
also, in a previous thread someone described a floor drain that just discharged outside, in case of a laundry emergency.
and a note to all teenagers- forgetting to wash your favourite article of clothing to wear to school or on a date does not constitute a laundry emergency.
Dozer I think that was me, used a flood saver http://www.floodsaver.com/ floor and wall pan, on my sisters remodel. Did not connect the floor drain to the drain and waste but brought it outside to daylight. Only two major things to make a washer flood, broken hose, clogged drain or stand pipe. If it is a clogged drain you do not want your escape route to be the clogged drain. treat it like a flood pan for a H2O heater. Plumbing inspector had no problem. Watts also now has flood safe for washing machines. http://www.watts.com/pro/whatsnew/whatsnew_floodsafe.aspJust last week I needed to fix my sisters washer, it was full or water undid the drain hose from the stand pipe lowered it to the drain pan and self bailed the washer no buckets or pumps it went outside.To those that do not think washers belong on the second floor, better put all the bath rooms on the first level too. They can flood also. As to the noise factor I do not get it, You guys set your alarm wake up at 2:00 am, put wash in, then go back to sleep?WallyoEdited 4/22/2008 10:07 am ET by wallyoEdited 4/22/2008 10:17 am ET by wallyo
Edited 4/22/2008 10:17 am ET by wallyo
I often wonder how many of the people posting their opinions on laundry rooms are the people who actually DO the laundry? I think the days of 'the little woman' doing the laundry every Monday are long gone - nowadays, the laundry gets fit in at night, like every other chore.
We put our laundry room on the ground floor, beside the kitchen and the garage. That way, in winter, when the kids come in soaking wet, there's a set tub to dump the snowy hats/mitts/snowpants into. Also, since it's beside the kitchen, laundry can be a going concern while supper is being prepared. We thought about putting the laundry room upstairs, but there are times when we want to hang clothes out on the line (quilts that cannot go in the dryer, wool blankets, etc), and you don't want to be carrying 40 lbs of wet blankets down through the house to get at the line. (Yes, we put up an outdoor clothesline).
I've seen a gazillion houses with a washer and dryer, and no set tub in sight - I can only assume these people have no clothes that need hand washing, or any of the other uses for a set tub? I find it way too useful to ever go without.
In 30 years as an adult, I've never seen a blown washer hose, and we've never shut the valves off at the hose, although my mother always did. I would consider one of those auto shutoff jobbies, like I think Watts makes.
Bottom line is, ask the people who are going to be the biggest users of the laundry, they're the ones who have to live with the decisions.
I often wonder how many of the people posting their opinions on laundry rooms are the people who actually DO the laundry?
I not only wash all the laundry for this family (what's left of it...), I even do the ironing.
Really.
I think one of the problems people have with the idea of a laundry room in the basement is that they imagine it as a dark, dank, unfinished space with the appliances shimmed level and their power cords plugged into galvanised utility boxes sitting proud on the studs. Not to mention the dust-bunny-covered black rubber hoses, the bare concrete floor, and a couple of naked 60w bulbs tucked up in the floor joists--the whole thing 'way over there t'other side of the oil burner and the shop. Which is what it was in my grandmother's house...and even in my mother's (first) house in the early 1950s.
But it doesn't have to be that way, and anyone who is designing a laundry room installation can and should make that basement area as attractive and appealing a place to work as anywhere else in the house. For all the extra work and give-backs required to place a full-service laundry up on the sleeping floors of a multi-story house, you can build a veritable laundry palace in the basement, install laundry chutes and/or dumbwaiters to do the schlepping for you, and use the saved upper-storey space for something else...like, say, a library, or sewing room, or sauna.
View Image
This is pretty basic, actually; I'm not as rich as my clients. And you can't see it in this photo because it was taken at night, but out that picture window is a view of trees and a lovely green lawn leading down to the lake. If I had placed this laundry off the master bedroom, while I did my ironing I would have had a view of...the door leading back to the bedroom.
Yah. I don't think so, Gertrude....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Harry Sorry to burst your bubble but no joke, I do about 60 percent of the wash for our family of four. In fact I need to check that the stuff in the dryer is all the way dry and reload it. GE front loader.Wallyo
Saw a house built recently as a retirement home, and the washer/dryer were in the master bedroom closet. Makes sense for someone who won't have laundry anywhere other than their bedroom.
Washing machines and their connection and discharge hoses have a nasty habit of being at the root of floods, which is why most well-thought-out designs place the laundry room in the basement. Or, if there isn't one, on the ground floor: Floods cause enough damage on the floor where they occur; it seems to me to be just asking for trouble to deliberately put a laundry room above any other finished space.
If carrying dirty laundry down/clean laundry up the stairs is a real issue for you, consider a laundry chute and/or dumbwaiter.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
foolish men call Justice....
I've had a washer hose split open in the middle of night before, not fun!
However its been a long time since I saw a new house in my area with the laundry machines on the basement, and actually I know that when selling my wifes house we were asked a couple of times if the laundry room was on the main floor, I would think in 10 years its gonna be harder to sell a house without mainfloor laundry.
There is an automatic valve you can have installed. It goes between the house supply and the hose.
When you turn on the washer, the valve senses this and allows water to flow.
At the end of the wash, it turns off the water so there's no pressure or flow to the hose.
Cheap insurance...buic
We just put one upstairs which means that one load of kitchen towels will have to be carted to the second floor. Code and common sense requires a drain pan and drain to catch the water if the machine fails. I would have tiled the entire room and built a curb just like a shower but they opted to install a pan sold at an plumbing supply for exactly this purpose. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Jim, it's those blown hoses that really get you; like the OP's midnight incident. A pre-fab washing-machine drain-pan won't do much to help in that kind of set up. (And ask yourself how many times you've forgotten to turn off the supply valves after running a load of laundry....)
I know that people are getting progressively lazier and lazier, and they are making dumber and dumber design choices--like putting things where common sense says not to put them--to accomodate that laziness, too.
But I don't have to recommend such choices when my opinion is asked...and I don't.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I'm 54 and I've never had a "blown hose". I've never heard anyone that mentioned having one. But, if there is that possibility, I'll put the shower pan in next time. Anyone ever have a blown hose situation? Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I'm 62 and have never seen a "blown" hose, either. We did have a hose leak several (8-10?) years ago that made quite a mess, but that was it.
After the leak, I replaced the hoses with braided SS jacketed hoses and haven't seen a hint of a problem since.
i had a friend have a hose pop.ranch house with a basement,washer on the main floor.when the wife come home from work she describe it as "awaterfall down the basement stairs". insurance paid over 75k to fix everything and the furniture it ruined.that was about 8 years ago.
that said my wife wouldn't live in a house that the w/d are in the basement.larryif a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
I don't do laundry all that much, maybe once or twice a week. My house is not so big a little walking is a big deal. Laundry rooms rarely add much value to a real estate or we'd be seeing laundry mats popping up in every high end hood.
I put mine as close as possible to the clothes line, and investing all the saved cash.
With all the convience people seek to make their life so efficent... The master bedroom of the future will not only have laundry but a kitchen and it's own garage for the car. Turning the 7000 sq foot McMansion back to a 900 sq foot livable space.
Ironic huh....
she describe it as "a waterfall down the basement stairs". insurance paid over 75k to fix everything and the furniture it ruined.that was about 8 years ago.
that said my wife wouldn't live in a house that the w/d are in the basement.larry
if a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
Apparently, the answer is 'yes'!
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I had a hose which split open and it started spraying like crazy.... after that I started using the metallic ones that same day.
I have had a blown hose--came home one day to find 2 inches of water in basement, finished space. It was not fun.
I am building currently and put the laundry upstairs where the bedrooms are. I sealed the entire laundry room floor with a rubber membrane and have a curb as well, and I plan to shut off the valve after each load. Maybe I'll forget from time to time. You think?
Worth the risk to me 10 times out of 10--WAY more convenient for me to have the laundry washed where it is delivered, next to all the bedrooms. That'a a daily event, every day of the year all year every year. IF I blow a hose and it is worse than my precautions can handle, I will be shocked. And wet. And bummed. But to me it will still be worth handling it that once compared to all the days carrying laundry around the house and having piles of clothes hither and yon.
Blue,
I have a friend who is an insurance agent and according to him the claim that is paid the second most (after roof/hail damage) is the result of a burst washer hose. The average claim paid is in the $12,000 range while the average roof claim I think is in the $4,000 range. He also says that he has never seen a ss braided line burst.
-Day
Thanks for that tidbit. This thread has certainly changed my idea of what a second story laundry room design should be. I will be putting in a full shower style basin, with drain and will look into auto shutoffs. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I may have missed it but has anyone had experience with Watercop?
It appears to be an electric solenoid that shuts off the main supply when one of the sensors detects a leak.
watercop.com
Don't forget those terlets and tubs, they all need their curbs and drains!
I think they are a different beast. Toilets and tubs don't have the same type of mechanical possibilities that would create the same type of damage that a laundry room would. I understand your point and I know that some claims come as a result of tub and toilet damage too but it's not the same.
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I'm pulling your chain.
But all the TV shows that have floods are a result of bathtubs overflowing.
But seriously, how much are these guys gonna get you to spend to avoid buying a better washing machine and some braided hoses?
I'd rather put that extra money in a poker room.
The poker room should be located on the top floor so when ya lose big you can jump out the window without having to climb up to it....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I'm okay with spending a few bucks. Right now, we are attempting to move our entire operation into a higher end mentality and offering something like a well thought out second story laundry makes sense. It differentiates and brands us. If the economy wasn't so scary, I'd already have two more high end spec remodels going here in Austin and both would have personal elevators along with the second story laundries. There would be an additional first floor mini laundry too. Oh....and maybe a basement...the first in Austin LOL! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Oh....and maybe a basement...the first in Austin LOL!
I know your just screwing around but I've been in at least two houses in Austin that had basements. One of them was up on Tartuga Trail, right off RM2222. I think there were a few more on that same street.
They don't seam to know what to call them though cause they will refer to them as "walk outs" even though one of them wasn't really a walk out until we cut an opening in it to make it a walk out, but it was a legit basement, or as close as you'll probably get to one in Austin.
Doug
I find it amazing that there aren't a lot more basements in a state that is so hot. Maybe no one knows that basements are much cooler. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
California is short on them too.
I've heard people in Texas don't do it because of the soil depth won't allow.
California, probably people would freak about all the cracks in the basment walls. But I think it's more because they don't wanna dig that much more.
But in Michigan, you'd have two - over and under - if the slope would allow.
Jim same in Idaho probably 80% of the houses have crawl space. Even when the house is on a hill side builders tend to make the up hill side crawl space and the down hill side walk out basement. It is getting better though people are starting to realize the real estate under their house is valuable. A lot of older houses are being lifted and full basements put under them.
More newer houses are getting them. I think has a lot to do with the price of land cheap land spread out, pricey land go up and down with a smaller foot print, in five years land prices have tripled here.Wallyo
amazing that there aren't a lot more basements in a state that is so hot. Maybe no one knows that basements are much cooler.
History & frost depth probably the driving forces.
Earliest houses were just built on the surface. Later, houses were built off of the warm soil on blocks. That allowed air circulation underneath, as well as elevating the rest of the building into better breezes.
The problem with that is that many people are uncomfortable seeing daylight under their houses, so they filled in those spaces. So much for the underfloor ventilation. But, it did usher in a perception of houses "attached" to the ground directly, not set upon a foundation set into the ground.
Bring in relatively cheap concrete in the post-WWII boom, and "everybody" jsut has a house on a concrete pad--even if that's a dumb thing to do.
Now, geologically, you're in a place of great contrasts. Probably only about 30% of Travis Co's potential residential areas have enough soil depth to dig a basement. Move out to Williamson Co where you are, and that drops to maybe 20%. Three feet of soil over solid rock makes for tough basement planning. And a basement only 1/3 in the ground is not that much cooler overall.
Also, to be fair, there's a huge number of tract houses in that Travis-Williamson Co area, and tract builders are about speed, not logic. So, even if it would be logical to have even a demi-basement on that lot with a 5, 8, 10' drop in the setbacks, that's not in the budget of the tract builders (time or money). Shoot, they don't have a "budget" to use carton forms to handle the slopes they see, nope, its' "Mas concreta, pronto!"Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Thanks for that tidbit of historical evolution. It makes sense.I have asked just about everyone that might have an opinion about why there are no basements and no one has ever offered anything except "it's solid rock" down there. I will agree that it's not cost effective to dig in solid rock but....Here's a guy on Craigslist looking for 500 yards of fill. I'll bet anything that he's not planning a basement. Heres his request:
"I need approx 500 cu yds of limestone fill to provide make ready to build on a residential lot in " Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Thanks for that tidbit of historical evolution. It makes sense.
Especially overthere where you are.
For the eastern part of the state, where wood was plentiful, houses wer built low, and with the kitchen area seperated fro mthe living area by a "dog run," an open area under a shared roof for the two "blocks" of the house.
Out west, where lumber was scarce, things were built with what a person could get. Sometimes that was stone. Which was set on stone. Somethimes those stone foundations were rubble-filled as rubble was plentiful, but wood was not (and needed for rafters or the like).
Also, before a/c, people were more acclimated to the heat. Houses were built for ventilation rather than mass, per se. Cellars existed, not always as foundation elements though, for the cool, stable temperatures for storage. For a lot of the state in those times, going into a cellar would be "cold" not comfortable, in the same way that desert nights can chill a person.
I have asked just about everyone that might have an opinion about why there are no basements and no one has ever offered anything except "it's solid rock" down there.
Which makes it silly over here in the river bottoms. First solid strata in the county is typically 300' down. It's an awful mix of silts and clays with some 'gumbo' like bits in it, and the occasional strata or two of flood-washed aggregate. This, in historical times would have been awfull to dig a basement in. You'd have to dig most of another basement again with a 40º repose angle--a discouraging prospect before powered excavating equipment. That's about the only reason for local practice I can whistle up.
Having run the numbers, if i had a "second story" 12' below grade, it would have enough PAHS built into it to have an elegant upper floor for nearly 'free'.
"I need approx 500 cu yds of limestone fill to provide make ready to build on a residential lot in "
Gee, want to wager on whether he has his permits in order? Bet he has not contacted Colorado River Authority or Fish&Game or TCEQ, all of which have "oars" to poke in to extramunicipal building sites (and if the craigelister is really lucky, he's in an Austion ETJ (extra territorial jurisdiction--a potential future portion of town if annexed, or pending annexation). ETJ means filling all the same paperwork as if in Austin (and the planning & permit offices are not at all "weird"--definite "negative waves, Moriarity")Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Toilets do have possibility to cause the same kind of damage as a washer. Just a lower probability.Had a copper supply line split. I happened to be doing some working just below the toilet on the first floor and started hearing this dripping sound. At that it has soaked some carpet and the paint on one wall formed a gaint water ballon.Just as likely I would not have been in that part of the house for a day or two and would have had a real mess.But, in most cases toilets and showers have different damage. Slow long term leakage that is not covered by insurance..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Sooo, you're agreeing with me that Blue needs curbs and drains for all of his water appliances?
{G}
"Sooo, you're agreeing with me that Blue needs curbs and drains for all of his water appliances? "No, not at all.I don't think a wash tub on the back porch and an outhouse will cause any problems..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Toilets do have possibility to cause the same kind of damage as a washer. Just a lower probability.
I agree, when they cause damage it can be pretty bad. My parents had two apartments they had built with a water pressure problem, and nowadays your toilet hookup is always plastic not metal like they used to be, well in both those apartments one day the plastic hookup couldn't hold the pressure and it stripped the tread, long story short, they even had to change the bamboo floors on the whole apartments.
That kind of damage would be covered by insurance.When I wrote that I was thinking more about long term leaks behind shower walls and below the toilets where you get long term rot before the problems are found..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
we usually get a job a year or so because a washer machine hose bursts.
Always an old rubber hose.
To the stop that problem you can use these:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00093DU5A
They shut the water off at the valve unless the washer machine is asking for water.
Thanks for that link. I've got it bookmarked and that unit will soon be installed in our current offering. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Dino:
Sorry but I too disagree. Generally houses here don't even have basements but homebuyers now-a-day want the laundry room located adjacent to the bedrooms. Regardless of whatever commentary on people's lifestyles, some newer design trends actually make sense.
You make good points about potential floods but there are some ways to guard against that like special plumbing valves, FloodSaver pans, and foremost always install a new hose set when installing a washer. Some of these items are probably suggested in the above posts - I didn't read them all.
Regarding laundry chutes, generally there is going to be fire blocking issues with that - assuming that the project is to be inspected.
Your post raises a lot of issues worth discussing in greater length; in fact we could take this thread to the philosophical level and stay there for as long as it took to decide we're not going to solve the problems of the world. Normally, I'd consider that a major hijack, but it's apparent from reading the thread that the OP had already decided to put his laundry room upstairs when he posted his question, and what he really wanted was for us 'experts' to confirm that decision so he could blow off the responsibility if it went wrong.
So since he's already got what he came looking for (except from me and a few others), and since I'm not planning anything else for the next 45 minutes, let's have a go.
...but homebuyers now-a-day want...
...everything.
That is the essential problem of late 20th-century, western-hemisphere consumerism: We want it all; we want it right now; and we feel--hell, we're told!--that we're entitled to it, whether we can pay for it or not. This attitude--which many sociologists believe derives from the commercial abuse of mass communications technology--has become so pervasive that it's not too much of a stretch to describe it as a social disease of epidemic proportions; a sort of financial and infrastructural version of AIDS, if you will. We have, as a society, lost our immunity to falling for every quick-fix, dumb idea, or shiny fake which comes our way.
What homebuyers want is that mythical, non-existant, unattainable 'Perfect Home'--the one they see on television, in the movies, in the pages of the fat, slick archy-digests. This doesn't mean, of course, that what they want is what they need, or what is good for them. The fact the ownership of such places--those few which actually exist beyond the false-fronts of tv or movie sets--is limited to the kind of people who will never need to live in them is unimportant. Monkey see, monkey want. And if monkey can't pay for the real thing, monkey will keep screeching until some clever salesman comes along with a cheap, glitzy fake that looks good for long enough for the check to clear....
Do I as a contractor have a responsibility to say, 'No, you don't want that,' to a potential client when he or she starts asking for things which I know will cause trouble or fail to stand the test of time? That's a personal question of professional ethics. I have answered it in the affirmative...for me. I can't answer for anyone else. I can only state my reasons and wait to see if others will agree with them.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
You make several good points, and I agree with about 90% of it. I deal with this stuff all the time - what people want, but it is mostly vs what they can afford.
I'm building one for someone right now. Fairly young couple, 2 kids. Both parents work full time, kids have cell phones, etc, etc. Wife drives a Lexus. Their home burned down and I'm building another one and insurance is paying for it. New one is very similar to what they had, although they made a few weird changes. I was told, just build it according to plan. As far as I can see they don't have the money to buy an extra electrical outlet. As you say, they want it all.
No doubt, many people are caught up in this thing - if I have it all I'll be happy - and it largely produced by the media. As you say though, we can't solve the problems of the world, the continent, or a country (knowing that you are in Canada and I'm the USA) here on the internet. As far as: >> This doesn't mean, of course, that what they want is what they need, or what is good for them. << Your right, but unfortunately it's none of our business. Sure I will tell them "if the washer leaks upstairs you will be screwed" but that's the end of our responsibility other than attempting to mitigate the situation, so if that is what they want, that is what they get. It's their house and their money and my job is to get some of that money to put food on my table. It's the business of home building. Unfortunately we can't eat idealism at dinner time.
All that said, the house I live in is a ranch and the laundry is on the first floor - there is no basement. The next house I build for DW and I will be the same. I'm not building a basement just so I'll have a place to put the washer and a bunch of junk I don't need anyway.
Further, it's not just about what is convenient because us (not including you) fat Americans don't want to walk down stairs, it's also about saving time in our lives so we can have more time to do what we please - be it waste time on the internet or whatever...
So - while I agree with your views on consumerism and the responsibility of builder to inform his buyers, I don't agree about this upstairs washer thing. Sure it a liability, but so is crossing the street. We must just proceed with caution. You say it is too much of a chance. I say the risk is worth the reward.
If anything it should just come under that category that makes remodelers have more job security.
BTW - FWIW I have a final walkthrough form of stuff I go over with a customer and one of the things it says is buy new hoses for your washer - and all the houses I build get washer pans. I'd say probably 50% of the homes I build have 2nd floor laundries.
I think it's arrogant for a member of the service industry to tell someone that their ideas for their house is wrong and that they have no right to attempt to create the perfect house. It's all a matter of perspective and I'm there to serve, not to serve my agenda. If someone wants me to build a shelf over their bed in the master suite to put the washer and dryer to save space, they're going to get it. I'll use my skills and knowledge to figure a way to mitigate any possible damage from potential leaks. If they want their toilet in the kitchen, I'm going to tell them that they need 32" minimum but 36" is more comfortable.Call me a cheap wh##re if you'd like. I just believe in the old saying "different strokes for different folks". I am glad that this discussion carried on and I've now been warned about the reality of split hoses. I'm going to head to the big box to buy a couple of the stainless steel ones and just let them hang from the valves. In the future, I'm going to design the upstairs laundry to be convertible to a shower and attempt to be creative with it's location. The idea that we should panic about possible plumbing leaks reminds me of the early days of indoor plumbing. I'm sure there were folks that couldn't understand the need for an indoor toilets but somehow we've managed to escape all the doomsday talk about them. Lastly: I'd like to see the national stats regarding damage from water from toilets vs showers vs frozen pipes vs sink leaks vs upstairs laundries. I have a feeling that when we analyze the data, we would all agree that no plumbing should be run anywhere upstairs and maybe nowhere in the house LOL!Also, we should be careful when we go outside today....an asteroid might land on our heads. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Yea... I've been talking to the DW about converting to indoor plumbing... :-)
BTW - I'm gonna guess that 90% of the serious damage resulting from washers is from problems with hoses. That's why my rule of thumb - every time a washer is installed in a new location, it gets new hoses.
Question: regarding the SS hoses, how are they made? Are they actually just rubber hoses covered with braided SS? I don't really know.
BTW - questioning myself for a sec, I thought - do I practice what I preach? Our washer was moved from our previous house... so I just went and looked. SS hoses... and I know they didn't come with it....
I do the same thing...questioning myself.
I do appreciate this thread and will put a lot more thought into the next second story laundry. In the original design, I had drawn in a small stacked laundry unit off the kitchen and the larger second story laundry upstairs. The guys nixed the downstairs stacked unit and put in a shower instead. I'm a bit dissapointed but not terribly.
If I had kids, I'd most defintely would have two dishwashers. I hate seeing anything left in the sink while the current cycle is being run. I'd rather have an empty diswasher waiting. I also don't see the sense in taking them out of the clean diswasher to put them in the cupboard. I'd just leave them in the clean dishwasher till I was going to use them.
I know it sounds lazy but it sounds logical to me.
When I lived alone (briefly), I just used the clean dishwasher as a drying rack. I'd wash the plate, fork, spoon and pan and set them in the dishwasher to dry. I'd leave the door cracked to circulate air and later than day when I ate again, I'd use the same bowl and utensils. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
i think ss hose's which are used on faucets,dishwashers.washers etc are going to be gold mines for the guys in the flood retoration bussiness.
we all see stainless and go "oooh look there indestructable" when in fact they are nothing but a rubber hose with a stanless braid over them. now granted if the hose wants to start bulging the braibing will keep it from doing that.
but i have had personal experence on 2 ss hose's with the braiding coming loose at the fitting and then you've got nothing but a rubber hose waiting to burst.
i love using the stainless to hook up vanity,sinks,washing machines, but they should be look at once in awhile and replaced maybe evry 6-8 years,that said i try to remember but don't keep track very well on my rentals......... larryif a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
INteresting... thanks for the info.
I think it's arrogant for a member of the service industry to tell someone that their ideas for their house is wrong and that they have no right to attempt to create the perfect house.
It's all a matter of perspective and I'm there to serve, not to serve my agenda.
Jim, I never said that people don't have a right to attempt to create the perfect house. Obviously, they do, and from any reasonable point of view it would be stupid if they didn't try. (Imagine waking up one day and saying, 'Hey, I think I'll attempt to create a mediocre house!') But what constitutes a 'perfect' house is another question. That's where I think I need to try to do some client education.
I also don't believe it is arrogance for an expert in some field to inform a client that his ideas run counter to the expert's own professional experience. If I hire a web-designer to help me design a better website than I can design myself, and he tells me 'FRAMES SUCK!!' I do not consider that arrogant in and of itself. But I do expect him to prove his case, and to suggest work-arounds or alternatives which will fill my needs as well or better than the frames I've been using. If he doesn't know more than I do, what the hell am I paying him for?
I don't have an 'agenda' in the sense that I think you are using the word; I do have a perspective, but mine is formed by experience and technical knowledge which the client can not be expected to possess. If I fail to inform him of the consequences of his design choices, and don't offer better choices for his consideration, then I fail in my professional duty towards him.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
You are right, you should offer your opinion and expert advise. After all thats why I posted here, of course my post was about a different issue but still all comments are welcome.Of course anyone has the right to dismiss your advice, doesn't mean you are or aren't right. Doesn't mean they are or aren't right either.
anyone has the right to dismiss your advice, doesn't mean you are or aren't right. Doesn't mean they are or aren't right either.
Too true. As I take pains to explain to my son often, there is a big difference between fact and opinion.
(Of course, my opinions are all based on facts! LOL....)
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
As far as: >> This doesn't mean, of course, that what they want is what they need, or what is good for them. << Your right, but unfortunately it's none of our business. Sure I will tell them "if the washer leaks upstairs you will be screwed" but that's the end of our responsibility other than attempting to mitigate the situation, so if that is what they want, that is what they get. It's their house and their money and my job is to get some of that money to put food on my table. It's the business of home building. Unfortunately we can't eat idealism at dinner time.
I hear you, and when I'm staring at more outgoing obligations than incoming checks (which is way too often, dammit), it can get real hard to keep that idealistic Nail Soup on the menu....
What I try to do is temper the temptation to be an idealistic hardäss with a bit of creative ethicism. Like this:
HO PROFILE: 57-yo upper-mid-level executive; building what he thinks of as his 'last house'--the one in which he plans to live out his retirement. Money is not unlimited but is generally not a major design-decision issue.
THE 'DUH' DEMAND: He wants fibre-cement siding, plastic composite decking, and p-u trim boards on a $790,000 house.
CREATIVE ETHICAL APPROACH: First, find out why he wants this, uh, cräp...because until I know what is driving his decision, I can't make any intelligent response to it.
In this case his reasons turn out to be pretty standard: 'I want it to (a) look like that place over on Elm Street, but (b) I don't wanna have to paint it every five years.'
Now I can answer his concerns by suggesting better alternatives that will fill his real needs/desires better than what he has asked for. Always remembering, of course--and reminding him of this, too!--that all decisions involved trade-offs. There is no such thing as a choice without a downside. Or if there is, I've never run across it....
It turns out that the 'house over on Elm Street' is sided and trimmed in white pine finished with Sikkens Cetol 2-coat stain. The decks are CVG red cedar (including the framing). It's got curb-appeal jumping out all over the place, and I happen to know (because I did some of the work on it) that it was built for $450k and evaluated for $625k the day after the landscaping was completed. I also happen to know--because I use it almost exclusively for all exterior stain work--that the Sikkens Cetol finish is good for a minimum of 10 years, 15 if the eaves are deep enough to protect the south face from too much direct sun.
I take the trouble to arrange a visit for my client to the place on Elm Street that he admires, and then I drive him around to a few other places which are finished with the materials he has asked for so he can see up close and personal exactly how fake it looks when there's 500 square feet of it right in his face...the way it would be every time he comes home if he sticks to his original idea. I don't talk; I let the houses do that for me.
Then I take him for a coffee and ask him one question: Is it worth living for thirty years in a fake version of what you really want just to avoid the minor inconvenience of painting the place twice before you die?
Then I shut up.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Good for you. So, did you sell the house? If so, how did you come out? Was this a recient project? Did you really recommend white pine siding and trim?
PS - what about the beer?
So, did you sell the house?
I didn't build the place; I was brought in to finish it when the original contractor blew the country after he beat up his wife and the cops came looking for him.
But not only did I persuade the HO to do it right, he even paid for the coffee.
Of course, I had to promise to put his re-staining job first on my spring schedule for 2021.... ';o)>
Did you really recommend white pine siding and trim?
Yeah, Cetol 123 over white pine all around except for the deck, which I did in natural cedar, like the other place. It's beautiful. Probably added 50 thou in curb appeal just by making those changes. That was in 2006. Wish I had some pix but I dinged my digital camera climbing up a scaffold on that job and didn't get a new one for a month or two.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
What is cetol? Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
It's a Sikkens product; two products, actually. It is relatively expensive but more than well worth the cost.
Cetol 1 is a translucent penetrating oil stain which contains 90% of the colour in the finished stain job. It's similar to but more robust than Minwax. Highly UV resistant and waterproof even without the topcoat (this is the first coat). The colour range is good and very, very rich.
View ImageView ImageCetol 23 Plus is a soft-film topcoat which is colour-matched to the penetrating stain you used for the first coat. This stuff is almost 100% UV resistant and does not crack, peel, or flake with weathering the way p-urethanes or varnish do because the topcoat remains flexible throughout its life and stretches with the wood as it expands and contracts seasonally.
The worst performance I have ever seen these products turn in was on a bungalow sited in a field with no wind or sun protection for hundreds of metres in all directions; on that place, the topcoat showed signs of degrading after 7 years. Typically, in my experience, the stuff is good for 10 to 15 years.
The base coat virtually never has to be touched.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Thanks for the info and links.It looks like Sikkens (they might have thought about a name change eh?) is a company geared toward timber frames and log cabin coatings. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Oh, yeah--the beer.
Unibroue is a really neat company with a pair of really big brass ones in their product-development department. They have brought out a whole whack of off-the-wall beers over the years, no matter that conventional beer-marketing wisdom predicted they'd all be losers. Maudite was one of them that proved the bean-counters wrong, wrong, wrong. Very popular here.
They also reproduced a real Canadian 'standard' beer, called La Bolduc-the kind of brew you would have drunk up here in the 50s or 60s--as a flip-off reply to the major Canadian brewers (Labatts & Molson) who have watered down their brews to match the American 'Bud' model. I served La Bolduc at the Fest here last summer for those who don't like the heavier fare like Guiness and Navigator and Kilkenny.
What Unibroue did was decide to market beer in N. America on the European model, where taste is all important and people don't buy piss-water in six-packs but instead buy a 750ml bottle of serious beer to serve with supper the way wine-lovers buy a bottle of wine. Of course, they did (and do) have a substantial distribution network in France, so they've got their back-door covered to some extent.
One of their losers was a brew called 'Quelque Chose', which was a cherry beer designed to be served hot. I tried it and liked it, but it really was a serious niche item. The sort of thing you might want to drink after having froze yer bum off skiing or skating out on a lake, but not what you'd serve with a plate of mussels and fries. Gotta give them credit, they gave it two or three years before they pulled the plug and tried something else new.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Very interesting about the beer... Sorry I missed the fest (and the beer). Was the La Bolduc a keg or what? Maybe one of these days there will be one that is closer than 1/2 a continent away that I can make...
Re Unibroue, so I guess those names are French? Duh... How much is a pint up there? I'm just trying to figure out if I'm paying inflated prices because we aren't too near Quebec, or if it is really just that expensive. One grocery store here carries Maudite, Treos Pistoles, Don De Dieu. Pertty awesome stuff...
Hey Dino - BTW - I'm sitting here having a pint of Maudite beer. I looked up where the brewery is and it's close to you. Are you a beer drinker? If so what do you think of the unibroue brand. They have some other very tasty beers too. Pricy though - I wonder if they are cheaper up your way? Here a pint is at least $6 (US). I've had to cut back so now aday I'm going for the good stuff....
Wow this discussion got a bit heated, not my initial hope but I am glad to see everyone is giving their honest opinion.
The reality is I came here to ask about the laundry room because I wasn't decided yet. Obviously Dinosaur was a bit confused about what I asked originally, I never questioned putting the laundry room on the main floor, it would be sort of crazy no to put it on the main floor where I live, I looked at over 100 new houses last year on the parade of homes and not once did I see a basement laundry room, its just not done anymore. Though I agree with the concerns of the hoses leaking, or other tragic problems. I am also concerned about the fireplace starting a fire, or about someone using the wrong kind of soap on the dish washer, but I am having both in my new house.My question was about the laundry room having access from both the Master bedroom closet and from a hallway. Was my mind made up before I asked the question? no it wasn't, my wifes was but not mine, not that mine matters ;-)
The reason I asked the question was because a lot of people questioned the decision of having a door from the closet to the laundry room, but not one person gave me the same answer. Some mentioned dryer smell if you don't have a good vent, some mentioned privacy, others mentioned having it mixed with the mud room (which we won't), etc, etc. But none of the answers I got before coming to this forums gave me a reason to reconsider. Why did I come here then? because I wanted to know if there was one good reason not to do it? or just a bunch of little reasons? or was it just that it was different and people aren't used to different? Anyways, I am pretty certain that amongst all the replies I got I will make a good decision, actually now we've gone on to think maybe the laundry room will only have access through the kids bathroom and master bathroom, and we will have a second laundry room on the basement for when the kids want to move there.
Obviously Dinosaur was a bit confused about what I asked originally,
You are quite correct, and I apologise for any unfounded assumptions I may have made.
it would be sort of crazy no to put it on the main floor where I live, I looked at over 100 new houses last year on the parade of homes and not once did I see a basement laundry room, its just not done anymore.
Here, though, I can't really agree with you because what you are describing is a trend--but the mere existance of a trend doesn't establish its validity.
And following a trend just because it exists is even less logical: there are all sorts of trends going on all the time in society, some of them good, some bad. You've got to choose which trends you think are worth following; otherwise you just become a part of the herd which makes most of the really bad trends in society self-perpetuating.
Anyways, I am pretty certain that amongst all the replies I got I will make a good decision, actually now we've gone on to think maybe the laundry room will only have access through the kids bathroom and master bathroom,
Back to practical suggestions again: Have you considered building the two bathrooms and the laundry room as one large, seriously-flood-proofed wet-room, using the laundry-room area as the separator between your and the children's bath area (and with appropriate modesty/privacy partitions incorporated into it)?
and we will have a second laundry room on the basement for when the kids want to move there.
I feel ethically obliged to point out that it would be a heck of a lot less expensive for you to build one serious laundry center in the basement and add a dumb-waiter for laundry delivery to/from the upper floors, than it would be for you to build two complete laundries on two separate floors. (Unless you are planning to close off the basement at some future date as a completely separate apartment unit for the children, which isn't clear from your post.)
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I believe code where we lived doesn't require a pan.
While we typically have at least one job a year between 20 & 30k because of a burst washer machine hose there are ways to mitigate the problem if not eliminate it.
We usually offer a washer-machine electronic turn off as an option and the washer itself can be installed in a pan connected to the drain line.
"While we typically have at least one job a year between 20 & 30k because of a burst washer machine hose"I'm flabbergasted! I've never heard of one. I believe you, I'm just surprised! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
we typically have at least one job a year between 20 & 30k because of a burst washer machine hose
My last big one was 20k for a blown 60-gal HW tank. Absentee owner left the place unrented in the occasional care of her mother who lived a hundred miles away. Damn thing leaked for 2 weeks before anyone came by to notice.
Total gut job.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
We have one particular customer who has had 3 "major" losses..
First one I can't remember the cause, it was a water loss, I think it had something to do with a toilet supply.
Second, A deer ran through a front window and bounced around the walls for a while.
Third, a burst washer machine house, ruined the laundry and adjacent bath plus the finished basement below.
This is a second home for them and they were out of town on all three. The first was caught within a day, the second right away because of the alarm, and the thrid went for about a week or so.
Second, A deer ran through a front window and bounced around the walls for a while.
So where was the wolf?
Deer don't usually bust through glass windows unless they're in a total panic, like having a wolf or coyote right on its heels. We've got a lot of whitetails up here and I've never heard of a case like that in 25 years. (OTOH, the neighbour's picture window has supplied me with a nice fat partridge for supper a couple of times.)
But we get reports of bears breaking into isolated places every once in a while. Now that can make a real mess....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
It was the wierdest thing I've seen. Window is on the front of the house in a subdivision. Back-yard is heavily wooded and a golf course is near-by. Window was narrow too... probably 16-18" wide maybe 5' tall with between the glass blinds that were closed.
Cops showed up and opened (kicked in) the door and a few minutes later the deer apperantly ran out.
I didn't witness the spectical just the destruction.
Not sure how long it was in there but it must have been a little while.
I'll also tell you, Kilz does not cover deer blood stains on a wall very well.
Was it a buck? Possibly the deer saw its reflection in that window and thought it was another buck 'horning in' on his territory? I mean, it takes quite a lot of ooomph to bust through double-pane thermo-glass. Especially narrow like that. Maybe a golf ball busted the window and the deer pushed through afterwards. If the lady had any hostas as house plants, the smell of that'd do it....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Last week Ask This Old House had a segement on water damage.Said that top 3 problem where with washers, water heaters, and the first one was toilets.However, they did not give what the rankins where based on - # incidents, total losses, average loss be incident?.
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
And, whether the washer involved was a Kmart cheepie with Kmart hoses?
But since terlets was #1, I'm going back to the original need for curbs with built in drains around each!
<G>
I'm sure you've got way too many stories by now, but what the heck...
My mother was always real insistent that we turn off the shutoffs to our washer in the 2nd floor bath every time. My sister and I rolled our eyes, but complied.
One weekend, while my mom was out of town (I was off at school), my sister stayed out for 2 days carousing after (you guessed it) not shutting off the supply lines.
Hose burst. Water cascaded down wall. Six bookshelves of rare books (for post-doctoral thesis) destroyed. Mom came home to flood and very expanded wet books. I can almost laugh about it 20 yrs. later, mom can't yet. Yikes.
k
Don't let them change your plans. It makes total sense to me and I'd do the same.
Noise isn't an issue. The newer machines are so quiet you have to check to see if they are running.
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Thats what we've heard, that between the new machines and a well planned room we will never hear any noise. Our builder warned us that front loading machines vibrate a lot more but he said he can work around that if thats what we want.
we have done many repair jobs involving washing machine hoses.
the worst was the one where the owners were on vacation in February.
someone walking their dog saw a massive ice buildup around the sidewalk at the front door.
i always thought i would have a second floor washer dryer until........
we got the Speed Queen front loader last year.
i can hear the spin cycle from the neighbor's house. no way would i ever put that upstairs. ever. period. it is industrial grade.
carpenter in transition
The noise from our modern machines is so quiet that I'm continually amazed that they get anything clean or dry. But, even if they were old style and had an industrial sized noise, I still don't understand the objection to having them near the master suite or bedrooms. Who trys to sleep while the laundry is going? Isn't laundry done during the day when everyone is up? Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Our laundry is right next to our masterbedroom. Handy but noisy.
Mike
Trust in God, but row away from the rocks.
Great idea. Who wants to haul dirty laundry through the basement evrytime you have a load. I built a house for a couple recently and put the laundry close to the master. The last reno I put the laundry near the master. In my own house I put the laundry beside our kids room, only steps from the master. It is on our 2nd floor. Additionally I put on a small cantilevered deck so my wife (she doesn't want me touching laundry) can access the clothesline outside.
Iwould highly recomend checking out floodsaver.com. It is a pan and a wall unit incase you blow a hose etc. Also I like to install a double ball valve behind the washer so we can easily turn off the water supply when the washer is not in use. The third thing I would suggest is install the braided stainless supply hoses to your washer, they are virtually rupture proof.
My wife loves being able to quickly access the laundry room, because like everyone else we are busy all the time and a few minutes here and there for laundry is how we get by.
Have a great day and remember, it is your house, do what you want!
Cliffy
Edited 4/17/2008 9:16 am ET by cliffy
Carlos,
I had a similar problem. What I did was make the door accessable to everyone and in the back of my closet I built a pass through for our old dirty clothes. Other family members brought in their clothes thru the normal access. washed clothes etc..
You could reverse that put a clothes chute on the master bedroom side and door access elsewhere..
DW and I have moved numerous times and looked at hundreds (thousands?) of houses. One of our favorite houses was built by a builder for himself, and in that house the laundry room had two entrances, one open to the rest of the house, and one accessible by walking thru a walk-in closet from the master bedroom. As I remember, the door btwn the walk-in and the laundry room was a pocket door that could be locked. We are planning to incorporate this general design layout in the next house we build. If you are building from scratch, you should be able to address sound, moisture control (air), and any potential leaks from hoses, etc.
Just because a lot of other people haven't done something doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad idea. If you like, do it.
Glad to hear that :-)We are definitely gonna put some sort of sound proofing insulation and maybe that special drywall. We are also considering sitting the machines themselves on a concrete base (either next to the garage or on the side of the house somehow) to prevent too much vibration from the front loading style machines.--Carlos
The home we just built (see some pix at http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=103374.33) has this feature. Master bedroom and laundry room both open off opposite sides of a short hall (separating them a bit from the main area of the house). The laundry room connects to the master closet, which connects to the master bath, which connects back to the master bedroom. The laundry room has solid, locking pocket doors on both sides, sound insulation between the studs, and a double layer of drywall on the walls shared with the master bedroom and the public areas of the house. The washer, an LG front-loader, made for a lot of vibration on the frame floor (even though it's right over a load bearing wall). Rubber anti-vibe feet took care of that. Even with the doors open, it's not very loud. With them closed, there's hardly any noise outside the laundry room itself.A 100 CFM fan/light combo takes care of humidity issues (although in Colorado, too much humidity is usually not much of an issue). We do have stainless braided cables, and a vinyl tile floor, but no other accommodation for leaks. The only leak we've had was the first load in the washer due to the door gasket being out of place after moving.Eric
I clicked on the link you supplied to look at the pics, but I don't think it was the correct link. In any case, thanks for the confirmation, I've put some notes from this thread into my "if I ever build again" file.
Sorry, linked to the wrong message in the thread. Here's the one with the pix (outside pix):http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=103374.15
So is this "if I ever build again" file something you may put out on this board? :-)
I probably wouldn't post my own "if I were to build again" list because it's too long and too full of personal choices, some of which are only appropriate regionally. As an aside, I've been keeping a list (actually a set of file folders) for a number of years on an informal basis. Now, when I start listing things I want in a new residential home (which might be a condo), I start with the green lists from the LEED and NAHB; they make good checklists of things that should be considered when building/buying.
Hi Carlos,
I just recently built myself a custom home and decided to place my washer/dryer in the master bedroom's ensuite (2nd fl). It was one of the best layout decisions I made. I also don't have any kids so it was nice to be able to do the laundry near the closet/hamper. My wife loves it!! And when the cloths come out of the dryer, it goes right into the closet two feet away!! Now, my wife looks for excuses to do the laundry!!
In order to take care of future hose leaks, etc, I built myself a sloped drainage pan, with tile and KERDI, making sure to run the Kerdi up the wall a few inches to create a self contained pan if the hoses/machine should ever leak. My philosopy going in was not "IF" the machines should leak but "WHEN". This was crucial since it was located on the 2nd fl and any leaks would go straight below. Plumbing was also convenient since it was located close to plumbing lines, and the door to the ensuite as a sound barrier when the machines were on.
Simply put - I couldn't be happier!! Just make sure you take care of the floor drain thing and you'll be fine.
Danny
Thanks for the reply.
What is Kerdi?
Kerdi is a waterproof tile membrane made by Schlüter. In any 'wet room' installed anywhere a leak could go down to cause major damage, it would be the sine qua non. You glue it down to the substrate--usually CBU for wet-room applications--with thinset, then thinset over it and lay your tile. It's used most often to replace the old lead shower pans that were required for tiled showers before membranes of this sort were developed.
If you really want to install this laundry room off the master BR, you should do a full wet-room installation with ceramic tile on the floor and up the walls to at least 12" above the top of the appliances. ½" Durock CBU over the subfloor and all the under-tile wall sheathing (it replaces the gyprock on the walls), covered by Kerdi wrapped from the floor right up the walls. In other words, you need to build yourself what is essentially a room-sized stall shower--with a floor drain to code--and then install your laundry appliances in it.
I don't know if there are any insurance issues involved with having a laundry (or HW tank) above the lowest floor in a house, but it wouldn't surprise me one bit to learn that such installations carry a nice fat surcharge.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Dino
What good would it do to tile a room 12" above the height of the appliance unless your doing so in a tub? Seams rather ridiculous to me. Couldnt the water run out the doorway.
Did you see the post that described the valve that greatly reduces the risk of a broken water hose?
103527.13 in reply to 103527.9
There is an automatic valve you can have installed. It goes between the house supply and the hose.
When you turn on the washer, the valve senses this and allows water to flow.
At the end of the wash, it turns off the water so there's no pressure or flow to the hose.
I've seen these used on houses with laundry rooms on second floors. Seams like pretty good insurance against the failure of a broken hose.
Doug
What good would it do to tile a room 12" above the height of the appliance unless your doing so in a tub? Seams rather ridiculous to me. Couldnt the water run out the doorway.
Yeah, you're right; it does seem ridiculous. But here's the reasoning:
First of all, to make any 'floodproofing' worthwhile, the laundry room has to be built with a curb at the doorway and a floor drain. So not quite a tub, but at least a shower. I guess I should have mentioned that, too, but maybe I thought it was obvious? Dunno; I just never thought about it.
Secondly, the reason for tiling up 12" above the appliance deck has always been to protect the walls from incidental splashing or overspray. Like when the washer cycles over to rinse or spin and empties into the slop sink, the jet coming out of that hose hits the bottom of the sink pretty hard. Or someone dropping a cup of liquid bleach or laundry detergent. All sorts of small, wet accidents happen in laundry rooms that you don't want splashing onto gyprock.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I believe these comments came from someone being asked to do other than "same ole same ole". It seems to make sense to locate a laundry room in close proximity to the location where laundry is generated, i.e. the master bedroom suite. Another source of difficulty would be dryer venting. Avoid lint trapping long corrugated runs. Straight shot the best with access to be cleaned out periodically. Plumbing concerns are an issue if they involve runs for venting and drainage. Finally I would consider some form of floor drain or pan for the washing machine in the event of leakage. It should go without saying that steps should be taken to prevent flow from washer supply hoses should they break or burst, there are nice units to only turn on the flow at the call of the washer. Good luck.
Don't forget a Slop Sink.
I wouldn't worry about the sound-proofing. I don't usually do laundry when anybody is asleep.
Also, I always fold our laundry on our master bed so it makes sense to have the w & d close by.
My 22-year-old daughter just bought her first home. It's a rowhouse. Washer and dryer upstairs near the bedrooms where it should be.
http://www.newurbanbuilders.com/westsidegreen/homes/rowhouse/end_unit.php
Not sure if I will ever get it right, but I will continue to roll that marble around my pea-brain until I figure it out.
Carlos,
I also would like to have a laundry accessible from the master for a couple of reasons, so you're not alone in this thinking. I've seen several houseplans recently with access from a common hallway and also the master closet, so it's not an unheard of idea. The hallway access keeps traffic from going thru the master.
First, parents are the most likely people to be using this facility. I don't know many kids who wash, fold and iron clothes on a regular basis, so it makes sense to locate the laundry for the primary user's convenience. If you locate it too far away from the other laundry-makers in the family, tho, parents are going to be trekking a long way with baskets and hangers.
Second, despite no-iron finishes and a casual lifestyle, many people iron or touch-up clothing. Those in-home "dry cleaning" systems leave nice wrinkles and limp fabrics that need to be addressed. Most of my clients like to locate a built-in iron in the master closet if there's room, since the adults are the most likely to do this task for themselves or others. If there's no room in the master for it, then having it in the nearby laundry with quick access for the parents makes sense.
Third, it's your house and your lifestyle. Don't let the realtor or builder police dictate where you place things.
if you have kids, two laudry rooms are better. and not that much more expensive.
My thoughts: The soundproofing will work optimally if the door is soundproofed also. Sound has always drifted under thresholds at my place, and reverberated through doors & studs (unless studs are offset).
But after you take all the precautions for sound and potential leaks, mainly the question is What's the most convenient for the doer of the laundry? Does the laundry-maid sit in the Master BR throughout the washing & drying cycles?
Here, we've looked at where we are while the machines are doing their thing. And found the most convenient place is near the Kitchen/Family/Home Office area. Makes a convenient little work core. Depends on how and when you do your laundry.