Greetings,
Looking for some info about laying 12″ x 12″ tile in my kitchen. Here are some details. Home is a 12 yr old ranch. Kitchen is about 12′ x 22′. Has sheet vinyl down now. Not sure if sub floor is present.
My question is do I need to put down a backer board after I rip off the sheet vinyl? Any other info or products would br great.
Thanks
Joe
Is it really saw dust or wood dust?
Replies
Joe - I wouldn't set a new tile floor without a good backer board. In a 12 year old house, I'd expect that you'll find that the sheet vinyl was either laid directly on top of the 3/4" plywood subfloor, or, if your lucky, they added a 3/8 or 1/2" luan before the vinyl. I'd pull that up (assuming matching floor heights is an issue), replace it with 1/2" Durock or Hardi-Backer, and then thinset your tile. Setting tile directly on the plywood or OSB subfloor is asking for cracks, both due to deflection and the different expansion/contraction rates of wood and tile.
You will almost definitely have to put down some sort of backer board, both to increase the strength of the subfloor, but also becayse residues left behind from vinyl flooring adhesive may interfere with the adhesion of the new tile.
Also FYI, Taunton publishes a great tile book called "Setting Tile", by Michael Byrne. If you haven't worked with tile much, I strongly recommend reading it before doing this project.
I assure you, there is subfloor present - otherwise you would have fallen into the basement long ago. Vinyl sheet goods do not do well spanning naked joists.
Several questions:
Is there an underlayment present on top of the subfloor? - luan, particle board, thin plywood or something which the vinyl is stuck to - if yes, I would remove it also and expose the relatively clean subfloor.
Hardibacker or cement board provides virtually no structural strength or flex resistance to the floor - regardless of whether you use 1/4" or 1/2". On floors the use of 1/2" vs 1/4" material is usually a question of what works best to match adjoining elevations. The common backer boards serve only as a "bonding agent" between the wood subfloor and the tile. The floor framing members and subfloor material provide the flex resistance.
A tile floor which flexes is bound to fail in direct proportion to flex - greater the flex the sooner it will fail. Note - all wooden floors flex, it is a question of how much.
There are fans on this site of Hardibacker, Durock, Permabase, Wonderboard, etc. they all work. I prefer HardiBacker, usually 1/4", on floors, I find it a bit cleaner to install. BTW - you should be setting the backer board in a layer of thinset - fills any gaps between backer and subfloor - prevents the backer board from flexing.
You need to check the framing below (size, spacing and open span), thickness ( bore a hole and start measuring - I have encountered 1/2", 5/8", 3/4" and 1-1/8") and type of subfloor (OSB? plywood?). Be sure that the floor is ridgid enough before you do any laying of backer or tile - otherwise you will just be wasting time and money.
Get back with the above info and we can all help you.
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
Thanks to everyone for the great info. Atleast I was thinking in the right direction. I will check about the sub floor ect, and get back with you.Joe
Is it really saw dust or wood dust?
if your existing sub floor is 3/4 ... with a layer of 1/4" luan under the sheet flooring ...
either rip up both the sheet goods and the luan and get down to the 3/4 ...
or .. leave both and work on top of than.
either way ... if the existing is 3/4 ply ...
add a layer of 1/2 ply ....
then ... add what ever backer board U like. At this point ... most go with 1/4" ... which is fine.
But ... backer board ... AIN'T ... structural subfloor.
do a search for the TCA ... tile council of america ... it's all covered in their manual.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa