Remodelers often face house layouts that just don’t make sense. Sometimes the issue is as simple as a backwards door swing. Then other times, the whole thing is a terrible mess.
This house has serious problems with its traffic flow. It has bottlenecks that, simply put, create a house that “feels” much smaller than it’s footage indicates. The main floor has 1500 sq ft but crowds a family of four.
It is my belief that the original plan was a standard 3/1.5 cape (3/1 upstairs) where the builder simply added two “wings” for the kitchen/dining and master bedroom/.5 bath. The plan wasn’t really evaluated well even though it was used several times in the neighborhood.
The repair plan is already in place and about halfway through its transformation. (I’ll post it later).
I was thinking this would be an interesting exercise to learn what others would do with the layout. Rather than taint the creative pool, I’ll sit back and learn from those more experienced than me.
THEN, I’ll give a pictorial of the project(s) that have and will transform this place into a more efficient home that will live well for many years to come.
Troy Sprout
Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it.”
— Thomas Sowell
Edited 2/13/2007 6:24 pm by Hackinatit
Edited 2/14/2007 6:36 pm by Hackinatit
Replies
bump
only life affirming platitudes allowed -Doud '07
Would a full cluster of enemies be called an enema? -Piffin
you need to downsize pic a little. I have to scroll around too much to get clear picture,
Tryin' here
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Troy Sprout
Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it."-- Thomas Sowell
Edited 2/14/2007 6:35 pm by Hackinatit
I'm not sure which is the front of the house. There is a door from the entertainment room. Entry door? Makes about as much sense as putting the front door where it is? in the Living Room.
1) Front door is in the living room............forget the living room, combine it with the kitchen. Bigger door to outside. French door patio? Push back the wall to the DR and turn it in to a den/office. E room becomes the LR.
Move the laundry over to the bathroom someplace after you demolish that mess with sixteen door. Reverse the steps?
2) Front door is in the E room.....Get rid of the dining room and incorporate it into the kitchen. Need access to out side. French doors and patio? Repace center wall dividing LR and E room, turn it into a nice big open fun room. Still put the laundry over by the bath mess or MB?
Be shooting from the hip![email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
Entry is bottom of picture leading to the foyer....
Shoot away, there ain't no wrong "answers".
Troy Sprout
Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it."-- Thomas Sowell
I'm assuming the room with the entertainment center is the "Living Room", where you receive company; to the left of it is the "Formal Dining Room", above that is the "Breakfast Area" of the kitchen, and to the right of the kitchen is the "Family Room", which opens to the back yard. I see a piece of a "Master Bedroom" on the right.1. Move the kitchen "U" to the northwest corner (sink on the W wall) and the "breakfast area" to where the "U" is now. Consider removing the wall between kitchen and family room.
2. Open up the dining room to the living room with a wide arch or equivalent sized opening.
3. Maybe open the dining room to the kitchen via a pass-through window (depends on desired level of formality in the DR), consider moving the kitchen/dining room door more to the east.
4. Is there anything of architectural interest in that entryway by the front stairs? If not, consider ditching the visual barrier to the living room. The entryway is not that large. You could put the coat closet where the door to the family room is, and move the door to the family room to the west a bit.
5. The pic doesn't show how big the master bedroom is, or where its closet is. If it's big enough, you could put a powder room at the foot of the front stairs (opening to the entryway), with a closet for the MBR behind it. Then that bathroom in the back doesn't need an entrance from anywhere other than the master bedroom, and you can rearrange the fixtures so that the door from the MBR to the bath can be moved away from the door to the MBR from the top of the basement stairs.
6. Get rid of the wall between sink and toilet/bath in the bathroom in the back. If you can get a fixture layout that will work, bump that wall opposite the sink a few inches to give better clearance for the door to the basement stairs and to avoid the claustrophobic feeling getting to the MBR.
7. Get rid of the bifold doors separating living areas. Replace with regular doors or no door, depending on how much privacy is desired between the specific rooms.
8. Consider a patio door from family room to the back.
9. I think the washer and dryer are OK where they are, or you could move them to the other end of the family room next to the stairs.Rebeccah
Your assumptions are correct re layoutTroy Sprout
Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it."-- Thomas Sowell
VERY Interesting!Troy Sprout
Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it."-- Thomas Sowell
Can I move windows, exterior doors, and stairs?
Move, add, subtract..
whatever you want.
Ideas know no boundsTroy Sprout
Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it."-- Thomas Sowell
I can't see why that would need remodeling. I love the way the traffic flow is pushed to the center of every room. Put the kithcen on the north and west wall w/ island. Take out the wall between the two tv rooms for a more open concept. Use the dining room for a home office or expand the kitchen and add big pantry with laundry in it (she'll never have to leave the kitchen then...... I'm going to get it for that one) Do we get to add to the footprint??
Have fun... add as you wishTroy Sprout
Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it."-- Thomas Sowell
We are design / build cusotm homebuilders, but take on an occasional remodel or addition when our shcedule allows.
If approached with this home plan, my initial questions prior to cranking up the CAD would be as follows:
What problems do you have with the existing layout?
What are your goals in remodeling the space?
What will be the purpose(s) of the remodeled spaces?
How many adults / children (also what ages) are in the home?
Do you do lots of cooking?
Do you entertain and have parties? How often?
Do you drink? Do your parties include drinking?
Would you like to extend Living areas to outside spaces?
Would you like to include entertainment center / high tech updates?
Do you need formality, as in a seperated Living Room and Family Room?
Do you like and want more casual and / or open spaces?
What kind of schedules do the adult and child residents typical have in a week and weekend?
What are the family hobbies and in what activities does your family engage in the evening hours?
What is your projected / expected / affordable budget?
Exploration and more questions would result in a closer examination of the existing floor plan. I would probably print several copies of the existing plan to use for deleting existing elements and marking new improvements in a table meeting with the HO.
Later I would get into interior finishes , and (if it does and necessary) show them how the interior work would affect the exterior, and make suggestions for the exterior.
Aside from location, and overall floor plan the most important issues related to a home investment (in my experience) are the exterior appearance, kitchen and master suite. You dealing with the overall floor plan, and kitchen at minimum, but your work may involve the exterior.
Hours spent planning is worth more than could be listed. Do a good and through job and don't be hacking at it. : - )
Asking for help, as you have here is a great thing. I may have time to submit some ideas if some or all of the questions could be answered.
Always a pragmatist, tex?
It's great to recieve your advise, but I really wanted to start a discussion (and learn how the thinkers think) about what directions could be for this layout. There are no parameters other than the flow of this layout is problematic, at best.
Your list is a small portion of the questions that have already been addressed for the remodel. There are MANY more that were considered.
The master plan is already set and in motion... ain't no stopping now.
Troy Sprout
Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it."-- Thomas Sowell
need to remove the center wall from china to stairs, and then it be ok
Always a pragmatist, tex?
Not "always", but most of the time.
I understand you request now, sorry.
I did not man to sound like....hey, there is not enough info, or don't you realize there is not enough info. Just sharing my approach.
I am probably going to get it in the neck for this, especially as someone who practiced architecture for years, but my designs are turning away from being detailed responses to the very specific lifestyles of the owners. To me there are many more important factors that should inform the design. Given that the average North American moves somewhere between every 3 to 6 years, catering to one specific owner's wishes in a building that hopefully will last longer than them doesn't make good sense. A well designed house, should support and enable any of the activities its changing occupants wish to do.
Yep, moveable walls would be ideal.
But there are still a lot of "fixed" assets Troy Sprout
Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it."-- Thomas Sowell
I agree, somewhat. Questions are still asked by us, so that certain needs, desires and details can be designed and customized for the HO. I do point out items that may hurt resell or may not be generically applied to potential future buyers.
How coud we call ourselves "custom" design / builders if we design and build for future buyers and ignore or brush aside the clients. The questions and answers will always be a part of our approach. It makes overruling sense to me. It is their home. To me, to tell them we won't do that becasue of future buyers is more ridiculous and unprofessional than questions and answers leading to a custom design.
I agree with finding out what in the existing layout impedes your clients enjoyment of the house. Its just that the more experience I have with it, the more I wonder if the questions we ask clients really result in a custom house. I also think the questions we do not ask may be as important as those we chose to. Let me give you a couple of examples.
Presently, a lot of the questions relate to the kitchen and ite relationship to other areas in the house. As you ask: "do they like to entertain?" And yet if I look at picture of the resulting kitchens in say Fine Homebuilding, I am struck more my how much in common they have than by what sets them apart. Try to find one that does not have an island with stools, granite or perhaps more recently some other stone surface, stainless steel commercial style appliances, hanging halogens - the list goes on. The result is a generic, very nice looking kitchen, which invariably eats up a much larger percentage of the house than it would have ten years ago. This despite the fact that all data shows less people are cooking. And can you really cook there? I don't mean make dinner once a month for friends. Try to can a years worth of tomato sauce, or bring in a bucket of dirty potatoes from the garden, without worrying yourself sick over the stains and abrasions. Is the result really customized to your clients lives?
My second point is about the things we don't ask. When was the last time you asked your client how important their sex life is to them? Or how often someone in the family is sick? I'm serious here. Given that the answers to these questions should reasonably be considered in the design of both bedrooms and bathrooms, why don't we consider them? Master bedrooms are perhaps the most generic room in a custom house. I can rarely tell one from another.
After all this long winded stuff, I guess my point is quite simple. If our questions don't really make much difference, why bother?
For those who do lots of entertaining we have inculded two sinks stations, one may be a salad sink and some have had two diswahsers. We have also incuded or designed a Butler's Pantry into a Kitchen area. Butlers Pantires have many options and design setups all by themselves.
Try to can a years worth of tomato sauce, or bring in a bucket of dirty potatoes from the garden, without worrying yourself sick over the stains and abrasions.
If I ask the questions, and they tell me this is an activity they desire...we can creaate an appropiate space....like the home on a river with access to the salt water bay and the custom fish cleaning and oyster shucking area we designed and built.
Given the things a designer can do: the cooktop area and venting, built-in refrigerators and freezers, trash compactors, pull out shelving, pan dividers, the possibilities of cabinet type pantires, Kithchen sound system, TVs and a computer / cookbook home planning space for mom, icemakers, trach compactors, single or double ovens, ovens and microwave combos, warming drawers, drawer type dishwashers, beer taps, wine chillers, the variety of cabionetry and doors styles, countertop options, instant hot water outlets, pot fillers, floor covering, ceiling treatment and lighting, etc. I find it absoulutelly necessary to ask questions and make reference to the many decisions, choices and products avaliable.
We make take a more detailed approach as we also build the plan. Some desingers and architect do not take their clients through a detailed specifications process.
When was the last time you asked your client how important their sex life is to them? Or how often someone in the family is sick? I'm serious here. Given that the answers to these questions should reasonably be considered in the design of both bedrooms and bathrooms, why don't we consider them? Master bedrooms are perhaps the most generic room in a custom house. I can rarely tell one from another.
Funny you should point this out.
We offer a step ceiling with concealed rope ligfhting to help "set a mood", add additional switches at the headboard location. There is also the piped in music and controls to consider, fireplace (how about gas with a remote), relation of bathroom and traffic flow patterns (one home has a 2 sided fireplace with a thru view from large whirlpool tub area to bedroom), clear glass shower and glass between shower and tub.
The home we are building now has dual shower heads, both equipped with verticle spas and it is 6' x 6' with seating for two. All of these things relate directly or indirectly to sex life.
In another home, We designed a mother in law quarters. The space is directly related to the health of the mother in law.
We had to consider inclusion of a desk space with internet access for medical monitoring, assistance and communication with doctors, a kitchenette and its own exterior entrance with covered patio with nice view for sitting, traffic flow and ADA compliance was necessary as she is in a wheelchair.
In another home we catered to an alergic condition of the owner. We asked the quetions. All of these things relate to health issues.
Building generic is certainly a possibility and much easier, but we go the trouble of asking the questions for a custom home. Sure, you find lots of similarities, most overall designs are form following function and proven thru history.....most all cars have wheels, a drivetrain and are close in shape.....but it is easy to tell the differance between a Kia and a Lexus both in looks and performance. I have always thought and acted with the idea that heaven and hell are in the details.
Well the first thing I have to concede is that you certainly make a very convincing case, as your practice sounds like it really does have a diligent and thoughtful design process that you go through with your clients.
I spend quite a bit of time with mine too, but it is the results not the process that has me wondering. Several years ago, I designed a summerhouse on Sprout Lake for a couple from Calgary. They were happy with the result and passed my name onto friends for who I designed a cottage on Kootney Lake. Later that year, I did a second home for yet another Calgary couple in Canmore. What makes these homes unique, or custom, is the response to their particular circumstances - on lakes, in the mountains, the orientation etc. The thoughtful features they may have, like the ones you have provided in projects - the fish cleaning station, home planning centers, or nice showers, are simply good ideas, and should have been included in those houses regardless of who commissioned them. Urban or rural, I think there is a right house for the site. What makes it the right house is precisely the kinds of thoughtful features you you fill it with. I think you underestimate your own role in creating this appropriateness - which owes more to the choices you provide to your client, than the choices they then make.
Well stated and thank you.
You can also see that I am persistent and a bit awnery, not liking to lose.
Of course, one man's trash can be another mans treasure. Me telling you or you telling me how to conduct business (especially if we are successful) is "akin" to us enforcing a hair style or shoe style upon the other.
Hillbilly Dictionary
akin: like or similar
afar: on fire, set ablaze; "The house is afar."
What was this thread about anyway? We highjacked and set sail to parts unknown.
Oh yea, hackinatit wanted some input regarding a plan for a remodel, but he already has one.
sounds like fun, but too tired tonight.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Step One:
Open Master Bath. No drywall mud was harmed in the making of these pictures.
This step removed one of the FIVE doors within just a few square feet.
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Troy Sprout
Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it."
-- Thomas Sowell
Edited 2/17/2007 10:38 pm by Hackinatit
Edited 2/17/2007 10:39 pm by Hackinatit
Edited 2/17/2007 10:39 pm by Hackinatit
Step Two:
Make new MBR access door into foyer. This "attaches" the bedroom to upstair bedrooms, allowing for better connection to children. I also paves the way to step three.
BTW Mud only applied to foyer side of doorway even with 2x10 header installed.
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Troy Sprout
Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it."
-- Thomas Sowell
Edited 2/17/2007 10:51 pm by Hackinatit
Edited 2/17/2007 10:52 pm by Hackinatit
Edited 2/17/2007 10:52 pm by Hackinatit
I would move the laundry area - either to the second floor (if that's where the bedrooms are) or to an outside wall.
In the current location, the laundry area walls will need to be soundproofed and routing the dryer exhaust will probably be a major PITA. Almost all of the dryer problems I deal with involve poorly designed or installed exhaust vents - usually they're too long and use that cheap-azz flex line.
I have a customer in a condo with the kitchen and bathroom in the center of the unit. The "laundry room" is behind a bifold door in the kitchen and uses a stacked washer/dryer. She has serious moisture problems from the dryer and I can't do anything about it since there's no dryer exhaust line. I put a lint trap on a piece of flex hose which helped a little, but her dryer is almost useless.
The other day, she told me that she was also having problems with her bathroom exhaust fan and range hood. The fans run fine, but there's almost no air flow. I'm planning to pull the bathroom fan and I'm betting that the exhaust line (if there is one) is gonna be the problem.
Regarding the gentleman with the client who has a moisture problem with an internal laundry location and no vent possible. At least one manufacturer (Scandinavian, as I recall) makes a machine that removes the moisture from the exhaust and recycles it--a combination washer/dryer, I believe. That should greatly relieve the problem.
Step 3
Close the original Master bedroom door to eliminate another of the five "revolving" doors (down to three).
Note the HVAC balancing register to allow for full privacy without blocking airflow.
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Troy Sprout
Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it."
-- Thomas Sowell
Edited 2/20/2007 10:28 pm by Hackinatit
Edited 2/20/2007 10:29 pm by Hackinatit
Step Four:
Den access from Living Room is re-located:
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Then the Foyer passage to Den is closed:
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Then we remove the raised hearth to remove a "toe kick":
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The particle board underlay is replaced with 5/8 BCX, covered with fiber reinforced 15# felt and covered with 1.5" White Oak:
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This picture has some clues regarding the next series:
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Troy Sprout
Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it."-- Thomas Sowell
Edited 2/24/2007 10:44 am by Hackinatit
Edited 2/24/2007 10:45 am by Hackinatit
Edited 2/24/2007 10:47 am by Hackinatit
Edited 2/24/2007 10:49 am by Hackinatit
Edited 2/24/2007 10:50 am by Hackinatit
Edited 2/24/2007 10:51 am by Hackinatit
nice progressMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Finished floorplan as promised.
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Liberty = Freedom from unjust or undue governmental control.
American Heritage Dictionary
my two cents:
In your new floor plan, when you are seated in the tv room and watching the tv, you are also looking straight into the powder room.(bathroom doors seem to always be left open) It gets worse when someone goes into the powder room and uses it.Ask any architect, and they will tell you not to have a bathroom communicate directy with one of the primary rooms. You don't want someone going in there and go fart, and make all kinds of noises. I would suggest moving it back to where it was, which was nicely placed in the hall next to the bedroom.
The 1/2 bath is added... the old remains (though not in the picture).
Door ain't a problem... just close it.
If "those" sounds are embarrasing, it's a short stroll to the old bath.Liberty = Freedom from unjust or undue governmental control.
American Heritage Dictionary