I have a customer who has a cistern that is under a poured porch slab. It is 32′ long and 8′ wide, and 8′ deep poured concrete and shares one of its walls as the house foundation/cellar wall.
The leak is on the shared cellar wall about 2′ up from the floor, and is really just a crack..but a leaking crack at that.
The only way in is through a manhole up on the porch, it is pumped dry for now, to maybe find a way to seal it.
Any ideas?
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
“Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire”
Replies
Hydraulic cement? Epoxy?
Are they using this for drinking water? Maybe along with fixing the crack, you could glue some sort of stretchy membrane across the crack in case it opens up again. (But if for drinking water, it would have to be something that wouldn't leach bad stuff into the water, of course.)
(Just line it with copper!)
Edited 2/10/2008 3:44 pm ET by Danno
Edited 2/10/2008 3:45 pm ET by Danno
It was for potable water, but since the problem, they are on well now. They would like it to be potable again if possible, but if not, it will be for irrigation use.
I don't know if Hyd.cement is watertite. and a goop seems short lived..Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
From inside the cistern, dig the crack out a bit.Fill with hydraulic cement.Let cure for a week.Paint entire wall with epoxy paint. (After prepping the wall, properly, of course.)If they really want to continue using it for potable water, and want it to last, paint the entire interior with the epoxy paint.Let that cure. Then coat the entire inside with fiberglass.All of that may seem expensive. But it is all upfront costs. And it should outlast the owners...BTW: Yes, you could skip the epoxy and hydroly, but the fiberglass would be prone to failure if that is all you do. Whereas with all 3, it would take a major earthquake or somesuch, to get it to leak again.
Yeah, it may be cold, but at least it's a wet cold !
I see asphyxiation in my future if I listen to you. LOL The ONLY hole is a manhole up top..not much fresh air.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
Shop Vac.Run a pipe halfway down into the cistern. Stick the shopvac in the upper end. Switch it over to blower mode. (Make sure the vac is cleaned well, before this use. LOL)Or just get 30 feet of flex hose for the shop vac, and tape your end to a respirator. Or the top of a face shield/hard hat combo, so the air is blowing down over your face...CPAP and extra hose will do just as well. But a bit more expensive. ;o)
Yeah, it may be cold, but at least it's a wet cold !
I see subbing it out in my future.
Or S.C.U.B.A.
My shop vac was last used to clean a cat box I think..I ain't blowing that in my face..nope, nosiree, nuh-unh..Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
ROFLMAOThat's exactly what I was thinking when I typed that about cleaning it reeeeeeeeeal gooooooood.;o)
Yeah, it may be cold, but at least it's a wet cold !
LOL...you know me too well.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
They do have blower specially for those type of applications. Ever notice what the telco people use in manholes. A blower with some flexable duct on it.I think that you could get that at some of the larger rental places.But they are more for maintaining fresh air.If you are working with oders chemicals then I would think that you would want a face mask with force air.They can also probably be rented from the right places, but I don't know..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
I think I am gonna try a tube of Geocel, and get out. Then go in with the brushable coating (geocel) and leave it set for a week and rehook the water feeds ( roof gutters) and see what happens.
If it still leaks, plan "W" Pump it out and try again.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
Fully lining the inside of the tank is the closest thing yer going to get to a 'sure fix'.Remove the porch slab and drop in a big poly tank.;o)Hey, they do make 1000 gallon, 2000 gallon, and bigger, poly tanks made for sitting above ground and collecting rainwater.Could end up being a draw, on cost. After labor and materials and probable callbacks are factored in.
Yeah, it may be cold, but at least it's a wet cold !
Already thought of a bladder..nixed that. The plumbing is too tricky.
I also mentioned a big tank ( would have to make a door in the basement wall) they nixed that, it holds up the house.
No place to have a tank outdoors..this is a very remote and hard to get to site..hour and a half from me.
I'll be there on and off for quite awhile, tons of work..I just thought maybe I could do a quick fix on this..if not , they are cool with it..its been out of service for quite some time.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
Perhaps I,m wrong , but I believe you can simply parge on mortor on the inside. Regular mortor mix I think, although might be something available that would be more impermeable. The origonal wall is just poured concrete, correct?
For fresh air use an old furnace blower with flex duct hooked to it.
Yes, it is just a poured wall.
I guess I need to get a better idea how big the crack is on the inside, from the basement side it doesn't seem big enough to accept something as "dense" as mortar.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
What I meant was you simply parge on 1/8 to 1/4 inch layer of morter over the entire area.
Worked in an industrial laundry where we built underground storage tanks for re-use water. These were built with block , then parged in this manner for waterproofing.
I was kinda hoping for a fast in and out, I don't have claustrophobia, but I sure can see getting a case real quick in that box!Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
Thoise tanks you worked on may have held 98% of the water for a few years, but they are far from waterprooof
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You are probably right, But what is thorocrete?
Brand name - a powder you can mix to a slurry to paint on
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Hydraulic cement is far closer to waterproof. The particles are finer, so there is more solids in the final cured product and less air entrained. Hydraulic cement also keep sexpanding as it cures so it fills space solidly and tight against the edges inside the crack. Regular mortar shrinks as it cures. A regular parge could be used to splice over maybe, but I doubt it would do much good. Painting whole wall after the patch with thorocrete would be ebtter if the wall is half clean. To get it clean would take a god scrub with acid but in this hell-hole I would want air. Hydrocloric fumes in there could kill a guy.
But if Duane has a sinus infection, it would clean him out good enough to whistle Dixie through the corners of his eyeballs.
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"Hydraulic cement also keep sexpanding "I don't think Shere wants any of that stuff.He just had one dog sexpand into 9.If it uses it that tank it in about 18 months that tank will be solid hydraulic cement..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
LOL..Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
As a kid in a rural community I was (was) skinny and at 12 was one of the most call upon cistern cleaners. They would get moss in them and such so they would pump them out and I would crawl down in there and wire brush them, bleach if needed. We used to take a simple box fan and set it on the hole and blow air down in. I am still here so it must have worked. Made about $10 an hour when minimum wage was $1.60. DanT
Sphere-
Look on the Xypex website. The have products specifically for these types of applications, that is fixing the crack and waterproofing the cistern. The products are also okay for potable water use as well.
http://www.xypex.com
You doing the work inside the tank is another OSHA "confined space" problem like the previous posters have mentioned. Careful!
Good Luck.
Swimming pool liner.
I think we have a winner! Thank You.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
Hydraulic cement patch. can even be done underwater.
take the cement ( dricore ) and put it in a freezer baggie with the right amt of water and mix by kneading, then nip the corner off the bag to use like a grout bag and squeaze the paste into the crack, fingering it smooth immediately with one pass only so you don't work it too much, just a pressure to smooth it and push some into the crack better. The water presure behind it will do the rest.
With the tank already dry, use the compressed air to clean the crack better, then do the same thing, but can use a trowel.
Remember hydraulic cement kicks in twenty minutes or less
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I emailed that last link, I'll see what they say $$$$ wise.
I wasn't sure ifHyd. cement was water tite or not..you seem to believe it is, so I may go with that.
They've settled into thinking iit is a lost cause, I would look like a superhero if it is fixable. Which I am sure it is, but was unsure how.
THNXSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
I don't call it 100% waterproof, but I have used it on cracks where running water against the foundation wall never got in when I was done. A tank is a bit different, and you always have to keep in mind the question of WHY is this crack there in the first place.
For an inexpensive crack repair, I would do the hydraulic cememtn, then butter it over with some geocell for insurance ( flexible seal going forward)
Next steap up wopuld be to wash the wall and coat it with thorocrete.
Only real long term gauranteed would be an EPDM liner
That's my opinion.
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There is footer problems caaddy corner in the basement. This I see. The floor is also heaved in a nearby place.
15 year old Log home, of course built by HO with NO real exp.
My wonderment is why didn't the whole wall blow out and flood the basement yet..LOL.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
rebar.
Leave the superhero suit at home on this one. Keep it clean for the wimins
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