I noticed yesterday that our new kitchen floor in front of the fridge looked a little funny – kind of like alligator skin, Pergo 3/8″ engineered hardwood. It worried me and got me thinking about where it was coming from. Asked the DW if anything was spilt recently. It looked worse this morning so I pulled the fridge out. There was a big puddle under the fridge coming from a leaking water line to the ice maker.
We had the fridge installed 5-6 months ago by Lowes. They connected the water line. The leak is coming from the connector that they installed. I’ve never disconnected it, even when I laid the floor.
Do you think I have any recourse with Lowes for about 50 sq ft of flooring?
I’ve got extra flooring and I could probably do this in an afternoon, but I would like a check from Lowes for the trouble. Hopefully, the only real damage is the wood floor.
Replies
Yet another reason to not have an ice maker in your fridge.
happy?
rather not have Pergo in the kitchen, than an icemaker for the fridge
I bet they installed ####1/4 inch plastic line for ice maker leaks every time should use cooper!! DK
"they installed (edit) 1/4 inch plastic line "
Are these known to fail even months after install?
I don't want Lowes to think I had something to do with this. So, if I have a little info in my back pocket when I make the call, I would appreciate it.
Joe
These sorts of leaks usually occure when the line is moved around, like moving the fridge to install the floor. Even if you didn't disconnect it, jarring around the those overly sensitive 1/4" connectors often gets the leak started. I alway make sure to retighten them when I move a fridge.
Ted said exactly what I was going to say. You don't want to move the fridge without checking the line. Just the weight of the line will sometimes be enough to cause a drip. We usually use the braided steel line set. They have a swivel on each end to allow some movement and a rubber gasket for a good seal. DanT
Totally agree regarding those little 1/4" ice maker water lines. In my
lifetime i've probably done several hundred thousand dollars of repairs
because of those water lines. Everytime I push a fridge back in place
I get a nervous feeling. I personally use ice cube trays and am no worse
for the wear and tear.
Sears screws this up all the time, and they eat a lot of them. Get on the phone right away. I'll bet Lowe's will handle it.
Greg
Greg,
I work at Sears selling friges..Based on the volume of installed units, you can't say, "Sears screws this up all the time". We get very few calls considering how many installs Sears in the Dallas area handle every day. That said, one call is too many if it happens to you....right...is with me.Pity the poor guys on the trucks dealing with all the wierd situations where the customer demands they hook up the waterlines. Like the union in the picture....By the way to all, the tubing comes attached on Whirlpool made units (most of the Kenmores, Kitchen-Aid and Whirlpool) and is PEX tubing..
This eliminates the "plastic tube problem.I put plastic on my fridge and it had a pinhole leak that flooded our kitchen. Do not trust that stuff.Pete
Was the line leaking when Lowe's left? No? Then you moved the fridge, now it leaks and you want Lowes to pay you 6 months later? Gimme a break. Everone is out to f*#k the big guy it seems. Why not, they got deep pockets.
"I don't want Lowes to think I had something to do with this" Even though YOU DO have something to do with it?? And you sure would feel better about fixing the floor if you "had a check for my time". How come when you hold up a bank it's illegal, yet everyone agrees it's ok to mug Lowes?
Sorry that I cannot join your bandwagon. If I was lowes I'd tell you to pound sand.
Edited 3/10/2006 2:25 pm ET by frontiercc2
frontiercc2,I understand and respect your point. That's half the reason I'm writing. I'm not usually the mamby-pamby guy that feels that the big companies "owe me" anything.
"I don't want Lowes to think I had something to do with this" Even though YOU DO have something to do with it??"
If I knew I did something, I would never even think about calling. But I really don't think that I did do anything. If you look at the photo attached, this is how they left it. The connector failed. There's enough slack that it was never pulled or forced in any way.
Before I call, what's the consensus, am I Ok to call or should I go pound my sand in the corner? ;)joe
Sorry, you got three strikes.
1. Dealing with Lowes & their cheep pipe.
2. Using Pergo in the kitchen.
3. Moving the fridge & not changing the hoses to a SS braided one.
Your check this time.
I'm really indifferent myself, if you can get them to pay for the damage is between you and them. They probably shouldn't have used that split connector, a longer tube should have been used in my humble opinion. I'd say, if you can get them to pay for the damage, go for it. I'm not judging. Just that I personally would have checked the connectioins before I put the fridge back. But that connection should not have leaked.
If Lowes eats enough of these type of calls, mebbe they will start using better connectors and hoses on their installs?
I used to work for P.C. Richards installing appliances. I was actually a sub contractor as is all their installers. When they tell you "their own certified installer" it is B.S. they sub everything out. When I tell you that more than once I was accused of breaking something in someones house, or that I caused something that I had nothing to do with. P.C. would basically roll you into the fire to indemnify themselves of liability. Whatever it was it was your fault. If the owners kids got sick because you sneezed in the house while working they expected you to pay the customer something. Find out if there was a sub contractor involved or if they actually work for LOWE's. I know truck drivers who used to deliver refrigerators would hook these things up for a $20 tip. If thats what you got then I dont think you should even bother. If you paid extra to have it professionally hooked up then it might get you somewhere if you made a phone call. A fellow installer of mine actually got a call back because the owner claimed that since her new D/W was installed, her doorbell doesn't work anymore. No kidding............
I am confused. (And no comments allowed).The area that is circled, is that a union? Is that where it is leaking?Did they add that extra length?I am surprised that they hooked it up.When I was looking for a new refigerator 2 years ago and asked about delivery. Everyone said that they had delivery and "installation" but that they would not hook up to poly tubing. Had too many problems with leaks.
The tube was coming out of the floor from the previous fridge (which they took away). They used the tube from the fridge and connected it to the existing using a small compression fitting.
One more thing, I haven't moved the fridge in over two months.
The connector just failed within the past few days.
If it just failed after 6 months and after you have moved it two months ago there is just way too much distance between cause and affect to blame it on Lowes.
ALL WARANTEES VOIDED.I saw something in that picture that indicates that all warrantees are void. Not only the installation. But the refigerator and everything else in the house. Include the garage door opener..
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The wall is not finished. It is not painted down to the floor and there is no baseboard.I am sure that there is a clause in all of the warantee that cover that.I know that it is a serious building code violation and the first thing monday morning the code inspectors will be comending your house.Also I see that you are in the Chicago area. Dont' they require you to run conduit to the refigerator and have a licensed electrican hook it up. Likewise run copper pipe directly to the refigerator and installed by a licensed plumber and to have the refigerator over an overflow pan and that that drained by cast iron.Sounds like time to tear the house down and start over.
Edited 3/10/2006 7:32 pm by BillHartmann
I think if Lowes is going to get into the trades by installing water lines (for an ice maker or whatever) it should stand behind its work. They installed it, the HO should be allowed to move it if he needs to, and if it fails, it's a call back just like for any tradesman.
If Lowes gets enough of these calls and word gets around about how low(es) their quality is, maybe HOs would actually call a skilled tradesman for skilled trade work, rather than walking into a retail store and thinking they're getting something that might actually perform properly for longer than a year.
"A job well done is its own reward. Now would you prefer to make the final payment by cash, check or Master Card?"
First of all, I'm calling Lowes Monday morning.
Second, when it rains it pours. The spring on my garage door snapped today. I think I'm going to call the builder from 1974 and see if he can replace it. A spring should last a lot longer than 32 years. ;)
Moving a refrigerator is a normal, and expected, activity. I suspect the instructions tell you to pull the refrig. out on a regular basis to clean the coils.So if the leak is a result of moving the refrig., then yes, I would say Lowe's is at fault, as long as it wasn't moved to the county.
When fixing it, regardless of who pays, I would recommend using a proper 1/2" to 1/4" compression fitting instead of the cheesy friction-fit ones that come with the fridge. This probably would have avoided the problem in the first place.
Like others have said, it may have been a moved fridge that stressed the connection and caused the leak.
Scott.
Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.”
You are lucky the damage was limited. Imagine if this happened in a vacation house and the water ran for three months. That's what happened to a friend of ours, and the cleanup and repair bills were over $20K.
Get rid of the plastic tubing and replace it with copper. We have two fridges plumbed with copper and neither (knock on wood) has leaked.
Was that picture taken at the time of the installation?
If that circled splice is the source of the leak, it's all on Lowes. There wasn't enough force there to effect a good connection.
They used too short a piece and if they absolutely, no other possible options, just had to splice a new piece in, thay should have done it where both sides of the splice could be clamped to something solid.
Make them repair the floor and run a 1-piece line to the reefer.
After everything is fixed, add another pipe clamp to the reefer after the line curves downwards.
For what it's worth, I'll take a well installed plastic line over copper. Well installed means there is a clamp within six inches on both sides of any connection and two clamps at least 3" a part on the reefer. The wall too, if there's a connection there.SamT
I would go with copper too.
Another thing to check. When taking apart the connections on the compression fittings the compression ring under the nut should be plastic as well. Plastic for plastic and metal for metal. Many, many times I have taken these apart and they used the brass ferrule that is intended for copper; the problem is it has a sharp edge that will in a jerk or in time with vibration cut into the plastic tubing creating a leak. If Lowes used the brass ferrule then they are wrong and responsible for not doing even the plastic job right to begin with. Use better materials.
Very true, though in the fuzzy picture the fitting appears to be plastic, so it's unlikely the ferrules would be brass.I think the RIGHT way to install water for a fridge would be to bring brass/copper up the wall, fasten it to the wall, optionally install a shutoff, and then run a reasonably long NoBurst hose to the fridge. But I suppose the fridge mfgrs don't even allow for this option.
If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people
happy?
Dan:
Didn't really think hard on it until I saw your post, but yeah, you are right on. What magic does a fridge ice maker have that it can be plumbed with a wimpy piece of plastic hose when the rest of the house has to meet ANSI this and Sched 40 that?
For some irony, here's advice about preventing water damage in the home from, you guessed it, Lowes.
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=howTo&p=Safety/PlumbMaint.html
Here's a quote: "Among the preferred lines are those that are stainless steel braided over rubber with threaded couplings on both ends for the sink and toilet lines. Don’t forget the dishwasher and refrigerator icemaker supply lines. They are often overlooked because they are hidden. Replace plastic tubing with either soft copper or steel braided supply lines." (emphasis added)
The OP should take this to Lowes. He can't lose -- they didn't even follow their own advice.
"A job well done is its own reward. Now would you prefer to make the final payment by cash, check or Master Card?"
I like your thinking, never thought about running it up the wall. Would you attach with just a clip? I do hate saddle valves, now using only ball valves, more work but much better. As for the burst lines the stainless ones I have purchased only had a guarantee of 3 years.