Leaky porch windows(vinyl replacement)
Hi guys.
I remodeled my porch last summer…basically rebuilt the entire front porch(enclosed porch). The porch previously had storm windows that allowed all kinds of water in and caused all kinds of damage. When I rebuilt the porch, I used Crestline vinyl replacement windows…and at the time, seemed to work very well. Admittedly, they were cheaper windows…single hung…about $150 each from Menard’s. I knew they weren’t the best but it was a front porch…they were a significant improvement over what I had(the storms) and I had 8 windows to do so even “cheap” windows ran me over $1000. I didn’t expect GREAT windows, but I also never dreamed they wouldn’t at least keep the rain out…..
Fast forward to this Spring with the wind and rain….much to my horror, I am getting water on my sills inside my porch. It’s not a caulking issue….the water seems to find its way onto the sills only when wind forces rain against the windows. I believe the windows don’t drain well out of those holes on the front of the window(no, I don’t have them clogged up…they are perfectly clear). Somehow, water gets under the bottom of the replacement window and onto my inside sill.
Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I know, I used a cheap window. But I’ve got them all installed and I spent a helluva lot of time on this remodel and I can’t fathom having to do it over if things get rotted again…so I’ve got to get this right.
I appreciate anyone’s advice on this. Also, I went back to Menard’s and they gave me a form to fill out and send back to them which I’m in the process of doing.
Replies
Is it an issue of poor install or failing windows?
Sometimes it's hard to admit failure but on occasion that's about all you can do.
Can you explain the way you set these windows?
And can you post pictures both full view (so we can see the locatioin in relation to the whole porch) a bit closer for detail and then closeup of the areas in question.
The water getting under the window suggests either the frames leaking or poor detail in directing water away from entry.
thanks.
Calvin,
I'm sorry, I don't have a digital camera so pictures may be difficult. I did my best to make sure the windows were level and plum, secured them with screws through the side holes built into the window. Shims where there were gaps. The windows slide fine, no issue there. When I built the sills, I made sure they angled down(not sure on the precise degree angle...but they have a very healthy downward slope)...I don't get any water pooling up on the outside sills. None of the water is coming from around the outside caulked areas of the window, if this makes any sense. It's definitely coming from the window frame bottom plate area...
I'm definitely not ruling out issues with my installation...I don't do this for a living and I did the best I can. I'm a woodworker but that is a far cry from Carpenter as you all know. Dangerous at best may be a good terms for me ;)......but EVERY one of these windows is letting water into the inside sills.
I will see if I can get a friend over with a camera in the next couple days.
Wood.
Can you give the model number etc on these Crestline windows so we might be able to access their install instructions?
Usually I don't rely on caulk to keep out water. If they're a flanged window I will use Vicor or similar peel and stick "flashing tape" over the flange and behind the trim/siding. Starting at the bottom and working up. This helps seal the window flange area and then proper lapping, beveling and install of trims and siding and the judicious use of caulk takes care of the rest.
Where there flanges all the way around this window, or just the sides and head?
Are the joints inside of the jambs "welded" or sealed with caulk so that what does get in doesn't sneak behind?
Do they leak with the sash locks secured?
thanks.
Calvin,
I'll do my best to answer the questions ;)
These were Crestline Vinyl replacement windows...there wasn't any flange if I understand your question correctly. When I rebuilt the porch, I built the trim so the replacement windows would sit inside of the framing and rest against it...caulking the outside edges.
The models were Crestline Select 100 replacement windows.
I'm not sure about your questions on welding?....I'm sorry.
They leak when locked down or loose....again, the water is not running from anywhere high on the window or through any of the outside caulked areas. I have to say that I've caulked these windows so meticulously that there couldn't be any water coming in from any of the caulked seams.
When the wind blows, water just appears underneath the vinyl bottoms and on top of my cedar window sills that I built on the porch...luckily they are cedar which should help slow down any damage(I pray).
water leak
Calvin
This is just a long shot, but, I've seen it happen plenty of times. When vinyl windows are shipped, they almost almost always have a couple of rubber or high density foam pads under the bottom sash. This takes the load off the sash locks when in transit. Not removing them after installation causes water/air infiltration under the sash.
Easy to miss, because often times they look so nicely done that a lot of guys think they are suppose to be there.
Dave
wood
You're doing a great job answering-I should do a better job reading.
Replacements, fastened at the sides through the factory holes. Got it.
One of these days I'll learn to not do more than one thing at a time. It's a bitch when you confuse yourself.
gosh, don't apologize for anything Calvin. I'm grateful to have you guys take the time to help me.
My dream was always to be a Carpenter...I think its one of the most admirable and honest professions out there...don't think you guys realize what experts you are...there is so much to know its scary and us weekend warriors can mess stuff up faster than anything.
I'm not ruling out the fact that I may have done something to screw up these windows. God knows I could have. I will say this though...if these replacement windows are that finicky where every one of the them would leak...I don't think I will try it again, I will hire someone and just pay the money to get them done right.
Well ok, lets keep asking questions.
Are these butted up to some trim or stops? Or are they just fastened at the sides, snug up at the top and "sitting" on the sill? Bead of caulk all around? What kind of frame is the porch? Pictures or a real good description of the area would really help.
thanks.
edit: and, you may have mentioned already, when were they put in? Seasonal changes can alter adhesion of caulk. And what kind of caulk was used?
Calvin,
I framed out the porch so the windows would sit inside a frame of 2 x constructed members....resting against a stop type frame on the top and sides. I didn't but any type of stopped frame on the bottom because the bottom of the windows sit nice and flush on the porch sill....I caulked the bottom good....
Caulked all around the windows...about 3x now. I used that heavy duty stuff...(the stuff with all the warnings on it)...QSI Quad Caulk I believe. I've found this stuff to be amazing...hope I'm correct. I've caulked all around these windows a couple times now.
I installed them last summer of 2009
Quad is good
Formulated for vinyl I believe-but definitely good adhesion to most things I've used it on. Highly recommended by vinyl siding companies.
Did you bed it in caulk at the backsides of the stop areas, then bead on the outside too?
Vinyl moves a bunch in temperature changes. Way different than the wood you're fastened to. I'm sure however that you'd probably see a spot that might have gapped. I'm thinking that if water isn't getting into the framing you're correct in assuming it's entering the window-either the sash, frame or both.
The seals of the glass and sash are filled and gap free? And by welded I meant that vinyl joints are often "heat sealed", i.e. welded, to become one. Corners of frames almost appear as one.
thanks Dave...there really weren't any flanges on these windows. they are replacements....the way I built the porch, just seemed like the best option(not so sure now;)
Thanks for the help, guys. I'm gonna try to call a friend tonight who can snap some shots...I'm also in conversations with Crestline and Menard's. At this point, I'd be happy with just giving the windows back and getting a credit but who knows.?...they may tell me its my fault and I'm outta luck.
wood
earlier I mentioned Vicor (Vycor) as a peel and stick window flashing. I tried to edit that post but as luck would have it-we can't edit our posts after they've been replied to..............
Vycor and others with asphalt cores should not be used with vinyl windows or those with vinyl flanges. Butyl flex window wrap (real similar in appearance) are ok to use.
Thanks to a member here for calling it to my attention.
Cripes, there's so much to learn, so much to remember.
So little time and so little room.