LEED, Title 24, and light bulbs
Does anybody know of a good layman’s summary of the requirements of Title 24 and LEED that bear on incandescent lighting — and that would include any insight into the proposed 2008 Title 24 changes? I have studied the regulations, and the compliance manuals from the State of California, but really don’t have the background to really understand what will happen to incandescent lights, and on more or less what timetable.
Also, has anyone tried LED lighting in an office or residential setting? If so, what it your opinion of the color, efficiency of the light output,, and the appearance of the luminaire?
Joe
Replies
I don't know if I can help you with the legal stuff. In fact I know I can't. However:
I am going to rant whilst bumping your thread. I am MAD!
I heard that by 2012 incandescent bulbs would be phased out WTF. Here we go!
I have about had it with all of this green b.s. All it does is regulate, complicate, and add misery to our aleady difficult lives. It cost the poor man more and lines the pockets of government and corporations. I suspect that it is further evidence of the picture of our lives in the future where we are regulated and controlled similar to the frightening movies of years ago when the "future" was 1984.
All of the freedoms and manners of living seem to be falling to controlling scenarios like this. I already have to argue regularly with my trashmen who work for a global monopoly whose initials are WM. They practically pick through my trash indicating what they will take ,mostly kitchen waste, anything else they want to upcharge me for saying it is a bulk item.
Now don't get me wrong I recycle things that are worth my while, but trash is trash.
Just a few examples:
The problem isn't that we humans consume and produce trash, it is the manufacturers who are trying to throw it back on us. We didn't ask them to start putting our water in plastic bottles. They wanted to CUT COST. Now they want to put it on the public and blame us for their packaging that doesn't biodegrade. Thirty years ago they had no plastic bottle waste problem because beverages came In GLASS BOTTLES and people took them back for a deposit.
God, how I long for the uncomplicated days when the milkman brought the milk in a GLASS BOTTLE and picked up the empties. Seems like recycling to me and the companies did it for you. Problem is it costs them too much today. This country is in serious trouble and going down the tubes because of corporate greed and size that is depriving us of the individuality and class that use to make this country what it is or was.
For example Lowes, Home Depot, Walmart just to name three, versus the small individual local merchant that built this country's economy.
Another example is automakers, use to be, and I know that most of you know more about theis than me, you could fix most of the things that went wrong with you car yourself. THe d*mn thing wasn't so complicated that you needed an engineering degree to work on it. NOT TODAY thanks to the automakers who make cars so complicated today that you have to take them somewhere firstly. Secondly the more comlicated they are, the more they can charge for them. FORTY FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS FOR A TRUCK MY A#S.
Henry Ford would I think be disgusted with his company if he saw it today, He built the model T so that an average working family could enjoy motorized transportation.
I guess for now I should just be happy that we don't have that effin emissions testing. What is a guy to do if he has an old vehicle that doesn't pass.
Sorry to rant and I am no like paranoid conspiracy nut and all (even though the single bullet theory is a joke) but all I see is the rich getting richer and the poor gettin' poorer. The gap between the haves and the have nots is as big as the Grand Canyon.
MY opinion is if you buy into the GREEN cr#p and whatever party it is associated with, than you are asking for it in the future.
Webby
Edited 2/13/2008 10:41 pm ET by webby
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I understand your feelings. Unfortunately, I need to know the answer to my questions for business reasons, so I am kind of stuck. My opinion is pretty irrelevant.
Jo3e
I wouln't worry about it, the u.s. will probably be bankrupt before 2012. Four years is a long way to go when your country is run by idiots.
Jason
I'm buying up a good supply of incandescent bulbs. CFL is good, but sometimes I want incandescent. Hopefully we still have electric in four years.
LOL, that your comment made me feel better.
I apologize to Joe for using his thread as my soapbox, and I understand that you gotta do what you gotta do, I do too, but I guess it has been building for a while with me, and I tripped my pop off valve.
As an aside, I was tearing out a bathroom today in a nice subdivision, I couldn't get through the kitchen for all the recycling bins one for aluminum, one for paper, one for plastic grocery bags, one for plastic botles etc... I was just shakin my head.Webby
webby,
I started a thread in green building (no such thing) take a look I'm sure you will be ammused.
Webby,You should go over to the green section of breaktime. You could really have some fun over there. Green is a fad. It will meet the same fate as all the non-functioning solar panels I see on rooftops.
Most of the requirements are the responsibility of the architect during the design phase of the project.
Do not confuse LEED with Title 24. They are as different as can be, and serve different purposes. Indeed. we're setting the stage here for some classic code conflicts.
The Fire Code wants more lights. Title 24 want fewer. Title 24 wants you to use new, fluorescent technology. LEED wants you to repair and re-use the old fixtures. Etc.
LEED rules also impact directly on the running of the job. Trash disposal and the use of recycled materials figure prominently in LEED.
Vague? Confusing? Contradictory? You bet - and I suspect that is the purpose. In the end, this LEED #### will be but another way for government to tax us.
It is cnfusing, thanks, but I am glad to have it clarified that LEED and Title 24 are different. What I am really trying to understand is the remaining life of incandescent lamps, and the time frame for viable LED replacements. There are plenty of LEDs out there now, but for the most part they do not make attractive replacements fo incandescent lights and are far more expensive. CFLs aren't very attractive either , to look at or in terms of the light they throw. However, they can be screwed straight into medium bases, and they aren't nearly as expensive.
That's one of your hurdles ... retrofitting a new bulb will NOT make the fixtures meet the title 24 requirements. They want the fixture to ONLY take a fluo bulb ... in other words, not have a standard socket.
Yes, I noticed that. No medium bases.
However, I am not in California -- just trying to understand what they are doing before it spreads. Kind of like planning what to do when bird flu gets here, don't you know.
Title 24 does give residential exceptions, though , no? Don't they permit new incandescent fixtures if dimmers are on the circuit?
Joe