Left Hand vs. Right Hand Circular Saws
I am in the market for a new circular saw. I have looked at some left-hand models at Sears and it seems like a left-hand saw would work great for a right-handed person. Any right-handed person out there ever tried this? I would like to know the pros and cons before parting with the cash.
Replies
I have a PC lefty.
Yes, you can see the cut.
Yes, the sawdust is your face too.
Joe H
I recently asked the same question, click teh link and you won't even have to wait for answers
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages/?msg=67138.0
I agree. Go left. Though I would suggest Porter Cable not Craftsman. The reconditioned ones are a really good deal.
I have one of each, but I grab the left one unless conditions require the right.
It depends what you do. Remodeling you should have both.
-- J.S.
IIRC the craftsman worm is PC so is the craftsman trim saw. Otherwise I love using a worm drive but I still keep an old skil around to do demo work where I risk wrecking the saw.Edit... Ok so I am incorrect on the current craftsman worm and trim saw being made by PC, they are in fact made by Skil, heck the worm is just the Skil HD77 with different colored plastic. I have an old craftsman worm that is a PC which is how I got confused.
Edited 6/19/2006 5:02 pm ET by restorationday
I'm a lefty. I use a left-blade saw. I can see the cut fine, and as a special bonus, my pockets and face don't get filled with sawdust.
If no one is tired of answering, you should get about 157 responses to this, and each one will be right.
I, too, am a lefty and use a "blade left" Porter Cable saw. I would have purchased the Milwaukee blade-left saw, but the dust port was made for a righty.TFToolfanatic (a.k.a. The man formerly known as "Toolfreak")
I actually have 2 saws-a Ridgid wormdrive and a PC right-blade. I use the PC with my EZ Smart setup because at the time I bought the EZ Dino did not have left-blade bases. I suppose if I asked he would have done one for me but I didn't. The right-blade is ok in the EZ because it's on the rail all the time and it's hooked up to a shop vac.
I may be in the minority but I am a DIY/semipro who prefers a wormdrive in general. Maybe someday I'll know a little something.
I mainly use the skil 77 worm, but even a nice rightie sidewinder will do the job, and I vote for the PC for that. I have a PC 324 MAG rightie that's the bomb!
I like the worm because it is heavy and easier to cut a straight line. I like the PC because it is light and easy to use overhead, and doesn't powder my face with sawdust.
The 77 is quiet, compared to the PC.
The PC blade guard doesn't wedge in a cut like the 77.
The 77 needs a diamond knock out, the PC doesn't.
The base is better on the PC, but can break, whereas the 77 bends.
I also have a little PC trimsaw I like which is a mini worm, but the blades are hard to get and expensive.
I have an old craftsman that wont die, and still works fine. Ergonomics? Aint got none on the craftsman.
I have a pc sawboss, leftblade, a 5.5" skill left blade and a pc 743 left blade. I really like the left blade. You do have to watch your eyes.
I have reserved the pc's for certain work like with a shooting board etc. I have an old beat right blade saw for when I need it.
My new all 'round saw which I have been using for about three weeks is a Makita 5277 NB, terrific saw I wanted a worm drive, wanted the bosch, but couldn't justify the expense. I bought the Makita on sale at Amazon for 129.00 plus 10% off. The add said it came with a free Mak' heavy duty tool belt. Mine didn't so I called Amazon They said we are sorry for that and told me the tool belt didn't come with the saw any more and they shouldn't say that it does and refunded me another 35 dollars.
Saw 140.00
sale 129.00
less 10%
less 35.00
Makita Hypoid 81.00 dollars plus free ship.
I am a left blade guy definitely.
Webby
Edited 6/15/2006 4:23 pm ET by webby
Edited 6/15/2006 5:13 pm ET by webby
I'm a righty who prefers a lefty. I have a Makita that blows sawdust into my bags. The PC has a "chimey" that works pretty well.
I have that 4 1/4" PC worm trim saw and I love it. You are right the blades are hard to find. Don't do what I did and buy a 4 3/8" blade. I can't cut through a 5/4 board. Duh!
"With every mistake we must surely be learning"
The proper way to use a tool is one of my biggest job site educational stumbling blocks I encounter on a daily basis. The circular saw unparticular. Most guys ignore the design features of their saws. They want to watch the blade and ignore the guide, the foot, and they also ignore their own built in features, their own senses of sight, touch, hearing, smell and taste. If they just paid a little attention too the features that the saw has, and they have, they, and their saw would perform flawlessly.
If it looks right, feels right, and sounds right, It is going to be a good cut. The bodies senses (features) will compliment and combine to watch the guide, feel the cut, hear the cut , and if it smells and taste good, then it’s a good cut.
The most commonly ignored feature of the saw is the guide. Guys want to watch the blade and they forget to keep[ an eye on the guide. Next most ignored saw feature is the foot, or table. Guys get into a bad habit of not placing the foot firmly against the cut piece. This causes problems of not stabilizing the blade, which is cutting a plane that is held fast by the foot being slid against the face plane of the cut piece.
When the features of the saw are ignored all the senses (features) of your body will tell you that something is not right. The cut will be off, not straight or un-square, or both. The cut is a struggle to perform and it feels bad, sounds bad, looks bad, and it can start to smell bad too if you keep forcing the blade through the board.
A right handed person using a blade right saw correctly will not experience any discomfort making a cut. The cut will be accurate, the upper blade housing guard will not allow sawdust to hit you in the face because your face is protected by it as you watch the guide and listen and feel the saw performing a perfect cut.
I prefer blade right saws. I am right handed. I cut as good as any automated shop machine, every cut, every time. My blades and saws last a very long time. Most of my saws are ten to twenty years old. I am a PC/Rockwell 315 user.
No brag, just fact.
The most commonly ignored feature of the saw is the guide. Guys want to watch the blade and they forget to keep[ an eye on the guide.
What guide are you talking about? DCS Inc.
"Whaddya mean I hurt your feelings, I didn't know you had any feelings." Dave Mustaine
Exactly!
exactly what?
DCS Inc.
"Whaddya mean I hurt your feelings, I didn't know you had any feelings." Dave Mustaine
I mean exactly, that's exactly what I mean. Most guys ignore the features of their saw to the point the don’t even know the saw has a guide on it.<!----><!----><!---->
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I have been Framing for 35 years. I have used a lot of saws, including Wormdrives by Skil and PC. I can use a worm drive saw, but I will not allow one on my job site. I have seen more saw injuries in a shorter time from guys using worm drives than I have ever seen with sidewinders. I have worked side by side with wormdrive only carpenters and have, and usually, cut 2 to 1 cuts faster than they will ever hope to cut. The fact that when a wormdrive saw is in the hands of a right-handed guy, and he learns to use that saw, and since the blade is so easy to see for him he develops a bad habit of “Blade Watchingâ€, he is not ever going to learn to watch his saw’s guide and he is never going to know how to make “Piano†quality cut every time he uses his saw. He might make most cut OK but there will be enough bad cuts to keep him from experiencing “Sawyer’s Nirvana†and becoming “One with the Sawâ€. <!----><!---->8)
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I also have a electric saw collection that I am very proud of. I have about 30 saws, mostly older Porter Cable sidewinders. Some have the old swing guards on them, some have typical telescoping style guards. They All have One guide cuts All angles guides. No Wide notched multi-guess guides on them.<!----><!---->
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They don’t make saws like those any more. The oldest I have has no exhaust port in the blade guard housing to expel saw dust from. Collecting saws over the years has taught me , first hand about the development of the saw and it’s features. <!----><!---->
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I had an early ‘50s Craftsman that had a very unique design feature that scissored the foot down parallel for blade depth adjustments. The blade guard housing on it covered the blade so well that the operator had no choice but to watch the guide. You couldn’t see the blade, It was completely covered from above the cut plane. <!----><!---->
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The recent appearance of abundant blade left sidewinders on the market suggest to me that if you can’t teach guys how the use the guide on a standard blade right sidewinder saw then provide them a saw that will make it easier to see the blade. They, in effect, are catering to the ignorance of the workforce market. And they are selling lots of saws. Even PC has join in.<!----><!---->
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Well, there goes the neighborhood.
The recent appearance of abundant blade left sidewinders on the market suggest to me that if you can’t teach guys how the use the guide on a standard blade right sidewinder saw then provide them a saw that will make it easier to see the blade. They, in effect, are catering to the ignorance of the workforce market. And they are selling lots of saws. Even PC has join in.
Watch the promo videos. (edit here: wrong color)
They're using left hand people to show how good the left blade saw works.
Who is going to pay for all this?
YOU and all the other guys in the trade.
When a DIY hacks few fingers off, the insurance companies are going to recover the money from...the trade people. You guys pay for all this.
Do you like to use a left bladed saw? Keep it secret and tell others to buy the right saw. If they can't use the right saw, do you think they can use the wrong one?
Vinny the roofer. :)
Edited 6/20/2006 4:13 pm ET by dinothecarpenter
Where are you obtaining your data that using a blade-left saw leads to severed fingers. How does that data compare to blade-right users?Trying to scare people into supporting blade-right saws by saying the use of blade-left will lead to increases in their insurance premiums is plain wrong without the statistics to back it up. Where are the actuarial studies from which you gather your statements? Last I saw the DIY's weren't included in the industrial labor statistics.If I keep it a secret that I like my blade-left saw, how will y'all know that I severed my fingers with that saw. To keep the secret, you know I'll lie and say I was using a saw with the blade on the right.
Edited 6/20/2006 1:51 pm ET by NovusAdGustum
Good points.
we get to that.
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Vinny the goofer:)
http://www.dewalt.com/DWAssets/english/flash/DC300K/DC300K.swf
Enjoy the show.
Edited 6/20/2006 4:20 pm ET by dinothecarpenter
It appeared the last two sawyers were right-handed - did I see that correctly?As for safety of digits, it shouldn't matter left or right bladed. You see both hands on the saw throughout the entire video. Of course, almost all of us have ignored that safety advice.Check this out:http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Safe_Design_and_Operation.html
Another nonsense report with no real life experience.
Using both hands? Ok. We don't cut our free hand
...we're start cutting other body parts,
On the video above you saw all the wrong things.
# 1. This saw isn't for you.
# 2. Don't cut using the wrong saw with the blade next to your knees.
# 3. This is how accidents happen with the wrong saw and no support.
Another nonsense report with no real life experience.Perhaps so. But you can't have it both ways. Either safety is an issue or it isn't. Using both hands? Ok. We don't cut our free hand...we're start cutting other body parts, On the video above you saw all the wrong things. You've no idea what I saw or didn't see. I didn't intend to critique the movie. # 1. This saw isn't for you. Darn right there. The day I have to lug around a car battery on a portable tool is the day I start looking back to cords and a gen set. # 2. Don't cut using the wrong saw with the blade next to your knees. No argument here. There is a better tool for that particular job. # 3. This is how accidents happen with the wrong saw and no support. I wasn't able to ascertain whether there was support or not. Not one to make assumptions I go back to my orignal post - we are capable of using either saw safely and accurately. And until statistics (real life facts) tells me something otherwise, I'll keep on using the one I like because I like enjoying my work.
Edited 6/20/2006 7:55 pm ET by NovusAdGustum
Edited 6/20/2006 7:55 pm ET by NovusAdGustum
Ok. I got it.
I'm not trying to dispute your ability to use a left bladed saw.
Roger,the out.
Thanks.And please, don't worry about offending me by questioning my abilities. When I stop learning and trying to make myself better is when I will start that march into my grave. It's been a good discussion.I have to ask you though, 36-volt DeWalt? [Pardon, that's probably better asked in a separate thread]
Edited 6/21/2006 11:16 am ET by NovusAdGustum
Exactly!
I'll take on all yalls :-)
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I suppose there will be those who are doubtful that you have all your fingers inside of those gloves. :-)
There's so much horsesh1t in this thread that I almost can't believe it. I'm with Framer.... an accurate cut can be made with either type of saw. The carpenter makes the tools, the tools don't make the carpenter.
If I were buying a new saw today..... guess which one I'd buy?
Drum roll please.........
The one that felt best in MY hands. Not your hands or Larry Haun's hands. Well maybe Tim Uhler's hands.... he's a stud and all.
I like worms for most framing. It's just what works for me. But I cut my teeth with sidewinders so I'm well aware of their great features too. This is how I can justify the 20 something circular saws I own.
See that..... if y'all would just wake up you'd realize that you could own twice as many saws if you were just willing to free your mind a little. :)View Image
Ok Diesel.
What do you recommend for a DIY and a newcomer to the trade.
I have few wormies and I love them.
But I know when, how and where to use them.
Billy the tileman.:)
Seriously? Well, I'd recommend he go to a tool store and handle a few. If he then said "which in-line saw should I get?" or "which sidewinder should I get?" then I'd have a little more to go on and could make some recommendations. I just think that "what saw should I get?" is too broad of a question. It's like answering the phone and having someone ask you, "how much does an addition cost?" Depends on whatcha like and whatcha wanna do with it, right?
I'd say I'm pretty well qualified to talk about circular saws. I currently have or have owned the following in the last 5 or 6 years:
Bosch CS20's, Milwaukee Tilt-Locs, Skil 77's, Bosch 77's, PC left and right both old and new models, free Hitachi POS, Dewalt SW's, Makita SW's, Dewalt In-lines, Bigfoot 10" on Skil 77, Bigfoot 10" on Bosch 77, Hilti SW, Rigid wormdrive, and Makita Hypoid.
If I could only keep one... it'd be the Bosch wormdrive but I've got a real sweet spot for the Dewalt inline saws too... too bad they just don't hold up all that well.View Image
Right.
LOL.... What? You didn't like my answer?View Image
I say right. I totally agree with your answer.
I will go even a step farther.
Imagine cutting - trimming a piece of wood with both saws and imagine what may happen if something goes wrong.
Diesel. I agree with you.
I just don't think that the original poster understands the problems with the left bladed saws. If you know how to use the left bladed saw or at least the potential problems and not only ...I like to have a better view of the blade...
Go for whatever saw feels good in your hand.
Is that a leftbladedchainsaw?
Left blade, right blade, I'm still convinced it's the user and not the saw that makes it dangerous.
Remember this post of mine from 2004?
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=41742.1
That's the closest (knock on wood) I've ever come to having an accident with a circular saw. It was a blade right sidewinder.
Just playing devil's advocate here.....
Oh.... and they're all left bladed chainsaws in my world. :)View Image
whaouu!!!
That brings back some bad memories.
Lucky you was using a right bladed saw.
The motor saved your t-short.;)
And the "funny and upsetting" thing is that ALL accidents with power tools can be eliminated with 2-3 more dollars of safety improvements.
Edited 6/20/2006 10:57 pm ET by dinothecarpenter
Well maybe Tim Uhler's hands.... he's a stud and all.
Pink seemed to be the only color that was appropriate to highlight that comment ROAR!!!
Tim, You look good in pink. Of course I can’t see it behind those dark glasses. We used to kid guys about their manliness in reference to Ramset Loads. Brown load was the studliest, pink loads were …well, not much bang. All in fun though. 8)<!----><!----><!---->
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Things that I found awkward with wormies, as a right hander.<!----><!---->
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The saw was held up by the cut-off instead of the cut piece..<!----><!---->
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The startup torque was cumbersome. I remedied this by starting the saw while it was still on a stable surface, often the ground.<!----><!---->
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You have to work from short point dimensions. Cutting 45 miters on 1x2 was very challenging and not a pleasant thing.<!----><!---->
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Having the blade to my body side always made me nervous. Kickbacks would come straight at you. Because the cutoff supported the saw they were frequent too. Especially when mitering. (I saw a guy take one right in the gut once! And that dude was no pink load either. He got lucky and the saw only shreded his clothes. I saw others get shredded knees too though.)<!----><!---->
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When ripping lumber I would not be able to use the table/foot with my finger holding the plate against the board as a rip guide.<!----><!---->
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Heavy! Overhead cuts on tails and miters on fascia were near impossible to perform safely, especially on the right.<!----><!---->
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On the plus side, they’re great for cutting 2/12 headers. Phuuphttttt………thats it.. <!----><!---->
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Sidewinders have their down falls too, depending on the make and model, but most don’t have the problems listed above. But there is a lot of cheap crap out there.<!----><!---->
Richard
Well, I don't think I've gotten to bust out my circ saw joke in awhile. I made this up and it may be and/or probably isn't copyrighted and trademarked :-)
Actually, the better part of discretion is . . . .whatever, the joke was about the limp wrist it takes to use a circ saw beause of the top handle, but even though I'm tough and look good in those cool glasses, I'd rather not fan the flamers here, er uh flames, that's it
That is totally tongue-in-cheek.
I started using wormdrives because that is all that's used around here. When I started framing (laboring) after school (14, 15 years old) every one used the Skil (not the Mag), so that is what I used. I've always lifted weights, so the weight didn't seem like much to me.
I just don't like the top handle on circ saws. Its uncomfortable for me. I find the weight of a wormy to be a plus, I like the handle placement behind the motor, so its more like pushing from the back not the top (DeWalt has the best handle placement)
I love the torque, Ridgid doesn't twist much when it starts up, and I personally like beveling with it and I usually cut from the long point. If I want to bevel a 2x2, I take the claw end of my hammer and make the bevel :-)
Out here, we cut a lot of LVL for the roofs. All hips, valleys and ridges are LVLs, so the torque comes in really handy.
Whatever a person is comfortable with. I do have to say, that I'd like to get a blade right saw for roof cutting, but haven't figured out which one to get.
I know what the real debate should be, CHAINSAWS VS CIRCULAR SAWS heheheheView Image
Now you're talking!
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Brian,
The new Headcutter works great. It worked like a dream on the last one that was 12-12 View Image
don't let Blue see that square...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Tim,<!----><!----><!---->
The pic of you gang cutting reminds me of a pic I have in one of my old PC Saw's user manuals. It shows a guy with a modified sidewinder table gang cutting the birds mouths on a rack of rafters. It's a shiny black and white manual from the late fifties or early sixties. The old carpenter had added a wooden 30-degree wedge to his saw so he could gang cut up to a 75 degree seat cut. <!----><!---->
I have not used chainsaw equipment like that in your pics. I would like too and I am looking into it but the tool stores around here are not much help so far. I also wonder how much use I would get from them since the homes I usually frame are so cut up that I rarely have many equal size rafters cut from the same size stock. I have done some partial gang cuts/marking on gable roofs in the past but then I’d have to finish up the heels separately. I don’t get as many Gable roofs these days and the Hips are very cut up.<!----><!---->
I read somewhere a while back that wormies were originally designed to harvest sugarcane with. That is a fact that I found funny, and hard to believe too.<!----><!---->
As far as chainsaw carpentry goes, you should see what some of the Mexican guys do with them on trim in the old Texas Revolution/Rangers era homesteads and cabin restorations around here. They free hand window and door casing and it looks cool too. Not real original, but still pretty good.<!----><!---->
Richard<!----><!---->
> I read somewhere a while back that wormies were originally designed to harvest sugarcane with. That is a fact that I found funny, and hard to believe too.
Yes, I remember that, too. It's from the Skil web site. The first saws were worm because in the 1920's they couldn't get enough torque at low enough RPM's to drive the blade directly. Those first saws cost the equivalent of $10,000 in today's money, and you didn't ordinarily have temp power on the job site. So, not much happened with them until WWII, when the government bought them to speed construction of barracks and temporary buildings. That proved their value, and they caught on in the post-war building boom. (Oh, and the price came down, too.... )<!----><!---->
-- J.S.
Edited 6/21/2006 8:54 pm ET by JohnSprung
I've got all my fingers all right, and toes, and ears. How else do you think I count? :-)
Take this for now :)
If I use left bladed saw, how can I hold the wood?
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Edited 6/20/2006 7:14 pm ET by dinothecarpenter
If I use left bladed saw, how can I hold the wood?
Oh that is so Zen-like I can't even one handed clap :-)
There's nothing wrong with looking at the blade when cutting a board. Logically, to make an accurate cut you want to see the thing that is cutting where it meets the thing that is being cut. Trust in a secondary mark shouldn't come into play.
I've never made a piano.
DCS Inc.
"Whaddya mean I hurt your feelings, I didn't know you had any feelings." Dave Mustaine
All I can say Earl is, The guys who designed the saws put guides on them. If you want to improve your cuts, especially on sheet material. Give the guide a try, you might be surprised. <!----><!----><!---->
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I’ve broomed many a hack down the road because they couldn’t make straight sheathing cuts. The young women I’ve taught to use a saw have always cut better than the guys who already thought they knew how to cut. So, if I was to say to you “Missy was a better man than youâ€, she probably was. ;)
At least with a saw.
All I can say Earl is, The guys who designed the saws put guides on them. If you want to improve your cuts, especially on sheet material. Give the guide a try, you might be surprised.
I've used the guide and I've used the blade. It sorta matters what I'm cutting and what my line of sight is. I usually start watching the blade and after the cut has been started, I take note of where the guide marks are with respect to my pencil marks and then watch the guide for (almost) the rest of the cut.
Here's a question for those that prefer watching the guide... what do you do when the end of the guide is passed the end of the workpiece and the cut is still not complete?
If I'm cutting framing lumber, I'll just keep going because I don't need such precision. If I'm cutting a piece of plywood and I want accuracy, I'll watch the blade for the last 2 or 3 inches.
-Don
DonCanDo,
IDoWhatYouDo, DonCanDo ;)
I think looking at the blade at the beginning of the cut is Ok/Good. Watching it throughuot the cut will yield poor cuts.
I use a CMS setup for production blok cutting. I gang cut almost every thing else that is 2/4 or 2/6 or bigger. The ocassion square 2/4 single cuts I rarely even put a line on because I put the guide on it and cut squarely across using the table as my square. I watch the front and side edges of the table as I perform the cut. Anything big enough to use the guide on, I do.
Mr. J - forgive me for being narrow-minded, I was thinking specifically about crosscuts.
On sheathing cuts, I use the guide more often than not. Once or twice a year I'll even get out the (gulp) sidewinder for a big sheathing projects. I keep a narrower blade on it that seems to work better for long cuts through thin material.
Wouldn't want to crosscut with it, though, and I'd rather cut rafters by hand than use it there.DCS Inc.
"Whaddya mean I hurt your feelings, I didn't know you had any feelings." Dave Mustaine
> The most commonly ignored feature of the saw is the guide.
The guide or the guard? Most saws are designed so you can pick it up by the back handle with one hand, then open the spring-loaded guard and grab the front handle with the other. It's a habit that has to be developed.
-- J.S.
Why do you need to lift up the guard? Doesn't it lift by itself as you cut? The only time I can think of that you'd need to lift it by hand is if you are doing a plunge cut...
cutting stringers, plunge cuts, birdsmouths, jackrafters, most "off 90" cuts, usually raise the guard, and cut. Guard gets hung up or in the way to start a cut on an angle. I got several wormys, ridgid, bosch, mag 77, bigfoot, Dewalt and they all have thier particulars about each one. One of my framers has a thing for Makita Hypoid....Loudest thing , sounds wierd to me but he swears by it. Cuts nice but to me feels odd. Whatever.You might start with one and soon find one thing that annoys the cr@p out of you the first day you use it.The angled foot on the DeWalt wormy drives me nuts!
__________________________
Judo Chop!
Most of them will get lifted by the workpiece as you cut. But it introduces a little extra drag that kinda shifts and bumps as the guard goes all the way up. So, I got in the habit of opening the guard while reaching for the front handle. It makes for a cleaner cut. Like driving a stick shift car, after a while it becomes automatic.
-- J.S.
For clairity sake, lets refer to them as blade left or blade right sidewinders. I have both and reach for either one, depending on the task at hand. Being right handed has much less to do with it than the intended use, especially since I can cut with either hand if needed.
I think the advantages of the blade left has been covered. A few disadvantages of a blade left saw for a right handed user: More sawdust, etc in the eyes, and your left hand can end up quite close to the blade.
BTW this is a FAQ
I agree that in a perfect world the guide would be the only thing needed to watch to make a good cut. But in my experience, that isn't reality. I have sidewinders with adjustable guides, Ok. My new makita which imho is a terrific and underrated saw does not have an adjustable guide. The first cut I made with the new saw I made using the guide (notches in the base). The kerf was no where near the inteded cut line.
I prefer to watch the blade for these reasons. Blade kerf widths vary, do you want to have to make a test cut and adjust the adjustable guide every time you change blades? Say you are helping a buddy build a deck, and happen to be using his saw which is not particularly in good shape and you don't know if the guide is accurate or not. Do you want to spend a half hour fussing with his saw or do you want to rely on your experience and watch the blade at the kerf, and keep working?
I choose blade left models because I am a righty and they feel better in my hand I can see better and I am experienced enough to wear my safety glasses and watch out for dust. And I have developed the experience to protect my fingers as you say using a portable power tool gets easier with experience, you develop a feel for the tool and what it can do for you and to you.
There have been many times when I have had to use a small cicular saw over my head, backwards in my hand running it down a wall to the floor to cut paneling, or making a plunge cut and carefully cutting backwards with the saw, not bragging, my point is that proficiency comes from experience and developing a knowledge of the tool that you are using. To only utilize the guide on the base limits you from learning and adapting to different situations encountered in the course of an operation.
I don't like to lean over the saw to use a right blade model. Also My pc's have the dust colletion tube and I have the hose and can hook them to my shop vac if needed.
But each user should use what feels good to them personally.
Webby
Edited 6/16/2006 10:31 am ET by webby
I am right handed & have a Milwaukee righty that has an opening to see the blade. I love it.
Here it is.
Thanks for the info and the link. It is probably expensive but most really good tools are. We have ACE Hardware and a Grainger store nearby. I am going to check it out.
I got mine @ Ace for $150
Shows out of stock but call or email to double check if interested. Mark has a hard time keeping all this up by himself.
http://www.heavydutytools.net/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=26
HDT has some great prices. How do they do it?
Mark gets incentive deals for orders and rolls some of them into deals. He is not out to make a pile on each sale. It is really wild how some of the purchases will include items that are either overstocked, cancellations of other orders and what not. The salesmen get creative sometimes and Mark passes most of it on to get the business.
I spent about 40 minutes with him and the DeWalt rep Thursday. I walked in and Mark offered me a great deal on a Makita impact ( joking) and I spotted the DW shirt and told him yeah, I needed to get rid of some of my yellow stuff. Lots of good discussion.
He will do you right for sure. If not tell me and I will never pimp them again (that won't happen) after I tell his Dad. Great folks.
Bob
A side winder........oh sh!d...that wasn't the question was it?
If Blodgett says, Tipi tipi tipi it must be so!
TipiFest 06~~> Send me your email addy for a Paypal invoice to the greatest show on earth~~>[email protected]
Okay, this is going to be kind of long, but in my humble opinion, I think it’s worth it. This is not the kind of stuff you’re going to learn in books.
First of all, that’s the second time I’ve seen this particular Milwaukee recommended on this thread. I’d like to third the recommendation. I recommended both this saw as well as the DeWalt sidewinder on a previous circular saw thread. No one seemed to like the suggestion. I’ll also put in a good word for the Bosch.
As far as left hand vs. right hand is concerned, you need both, but if you can only afford one you should purchase a left hand if your right handed. Here’s why. You simply can’t perform certain cut effectively without one. Basically the only advantage of a right hand saw to a right handed user is keeping away from the dust.
If some of you don’t like what I’ve had to say so far, just wait until you hear what I have to say next. In regards to technique, I personally think placing the foot flat on the cut piece can sometimes be a bad habit. Why do I say this? I do always the foot firmly on the cut piece in that I always place the front edge of the foot firmly on the cut piece before starting a cut. The back end however, I often raise up. This is especially true with angled cuts. The reason for this is you simply have more control over the direction of the blade when it is only glazing the top of the work piece.
Raising the back end of the saw’s foot also often helps to prevent the guard from getting stuck. In my humble opinion, the guard should never be raised by hand unless it’s absolutely necessary in order to keep the guard from sticking. It’s in the best interest of safety. I also think it safer to cut up a wall instead of down it, assuming your standing on the floor.
Regarding whether to watch the guide or watch the blade, I do either, depending on the situation. When accuracy is critical however, I prefer to watch the blade. Still, I recommend a right handed sidewinder. How can this be? I watch the blade through the narrow line of sight between the auxiliary handle and the upper housing. This is not as easy as watching the blade on a left handed model, but I manage to get an extremely accurate cut while avoiding most of the saw dust. This right handed model is my sidewinder.
The left handed model is my worm drive. If you’re right handed, just try and cut rafter tails while walking a wall plate without one. Unless you’re seven feet tall, it’s practically impossible to see either the blade or the guide. The weight of the worm drive also helps to drive the saw down through the rafter tails. The length of the saw will enable you to reach the end of the cut even on a steep pitch. The worm drive also has a more powerful motor than a sidewinder, and is thus better for gang cutting rafters and plywood. Because you can easily see the blade on a standard left side blade worm, and because worms make more controlled cuts, they are better suited for highly accurate work such as stair stringers. As I said previously, if you can only afford one saw, purchase a left side blade worm drive.
The second saw to purchase is a right side blade sidewinder. This is the saw I use when I have to cut through one piece of wood at a time. The motor isn’t as tough as a worm, but it’s faster. It’s also lighter. Because I’m right handed (although I’m always working on becoming more ambidextrous), and my sidewinder is a right side blade circular saw, I don’t get so much dust on me each time I make a cut. These are all important considerations when making many cuts, but one at a time.
I hope I didn’t offend too many people. As one poster already said, ‘you have to go with what feels right for you.’ This is just what feels right for me, and I tried to explain why as best I could.
-T
""if you can only afford one you should purchase a left hand if your right handed. Here’s why. You simply can’t perform certain cut effectively without one."" ""and because worms make more controlled cuts, they are better suited for highly accurate work such as stair stringers.""All of the above is not true at all. I've been framing for 23 years and have used a sidewinder with the blade on the right side and can cut anything with it with accuracy.I've cut every exterior piece of fascia, rakes, frieze boards...etc. with great accuracy. I've cut tons of stringers before with accuracy. All with sidewinder blade on the right side being right handed.It's only a saw and even if you’re a right hander and use a right sided blade or left sided blade you should be able to cut accurate. If someone who is a carpenter and uses his saw every day can't cut accurate then they're in big trouble, period!A wormdrive doesn't control your cut; the guy cutting controls the cut with his own arm.Your logic with a right hander being able to cut more accurate with the blade on the left side does nothing for the left hander who want to use a wormdrive because they should make the blade on the right side but they don't on wormdrives. So as I've said before about wormdrives that they are no good for a left hander.
Joe Carola
I’ve read some of your posts, and usually I don’t see you displaying such an attitude, so I’m going to try to be polite. At least as polite as I can be in regards to such erroneous statements.
“All of the above is not true at all. I've been framing for 23 years . . .â€<!----><!----><!---->
This is a joke right?
Anyone who’s framed for 23 years should know that worm-drive saws are easier to control than sidewinders. It’s just a simple fact. This is because the motor is in line with the blade. See FHB #173 p. 110 caption: “Motor position makes a difference. Worm-drive saws are heavier than sidewinders, but they’re more powerful and offer a balance that some carpenters prefer.†(Italics mine.) You might have framed for 23 years, but I can tell from this very statement that you don’t have a whole lot of experience with worms.
“I've . . . used a sidewinder with the blade on the right side and can cut anything with it with accuracy.â€<!----><!---->
So can I. It still doesn’t change the fact that certain tasks are more easily performed with a blade on the opposite side of the hand you’re using. It’s not that it can’t be done without one; it’s just easier if you have it. As I said, it’s “better suited†for the task.
Now in regards to my statement: “You simply can’t perform certain cut effectively without one," I believe you said:
“I've cut every exterior piece of fascia, rakes, frieze boards...etc. with great accuracy. I've cut tons of stringers before with accuracy. All with sidewinder blade on the right side being right handed.â€<!----><!---->
That’s nice, but have you ever used a right handed sidewinder to cut 2x12 rafter tails with an 18†overhang on a 12/12 pitch? At 5’ – 9†tall, it is impossible for me to see either the blade or the guide with a right handed sidewinder at that angle while walking the top plate. If you performed such a task with right handed sidewinder, you no doubt did it off of a ladder. Thus the worm drive is surpassingly more efficient, and hence the effective tool of choice.<!----><!---->
You’re taking my comments out of context. Remember, I also stated:<!----><!---->
“If you’re right handed, just try and cut rafter tails while walking a wall plate without one. Unless you’re seven feet tall, it’s practically impossible to see either the blade or the guide. The weight of the worm drive also helps to drive the saw down through the rafter tails. The length of the saw will enable you to reach the end of the cut even on a steep pitch.â€<!----><!---->
“It's only a saw and even if you’re a right hander and use a right sided blade or left sided blade you should be able to cut accurate. If someone who is a carpenter and uses his saw every day can't cut accurate then they're in big trouble, period!â€<!----><!---->
Again, would you be able to cut those aforementioned rafter tails accurately while walking the plate, even though you couldn’t see the blade or the guide? Even with 23 years of framing experience, I’m guessing some of the cuts would come out kind of rough.
“A wormdrive doesn't control your cut; the guy cutting controls the cut with his own arm.â€
That may be true, but a worm drive is easier to control with that arm. This isn’t only because of the balance in the tool I’ve mentioned already, but also because the more powerful saw is easier to push through the lumber and is less likely to kick back. “Haun prefers the . . . higher torque of worm-drive saws, arguing that their inherently safer because their less likely to kick back.â€â€“FHB #173 p. 110 par. 2.
And please don’t tell me you’re another one of those guys that thinks he’s a better framer than Larry Haun! If you do, I will simply suggest you submit your suggestions to the pages of FHB. When they publish it, then I’ll consider giving your advice the same amount of credence.
“Your logic with a right hander being able to cut more accurate with the blade on the left side does nothing for the left hander who want to use a wormdrive because they should make the blade on the right side but they don't on wormdrives. So as I've said before about wormdrives that they are no good for a left hander.â€<!----><!---->
I therefore apologize to all of the left handers out there I’ve offended and hereby include what I thought would be obvious advice: If you’re left handed and only want to purchase one saw, then in view of the foregoing you might want to consider a right handed sidewinder. I would make them manufacture left handed worm drives if I could, but again I apologize, I’m just not powerful enouh.-T
""I’ve read some of your posts, and usually I don’t see you displaying such an attitude, so I’m going to try to be polite. At least as polite as I can be in regards to such erroneous statements.""Journeyman,I didn't think that I had an attitude about such a simple tool to use. What's the matter you don't like what I said because I disagreed with your erroneous statements?""Anyone who’s framed for 23 years should know that worm-drive saws are easier to control than sidewinders. It’s just a simple fact. This is because the motor is in line with the blade. See FHB #173 p. 110 caption: “Motor position makes a difference. Worm-drive saws are heavier than sidewinders, but they’re more powerful and offer a balance that some carpenters prefer.†(Italics mine.) You might have framed for 23 years, but I can tell from this very statement that you don’t have a whole lot of experience with worms.""Now who's the one who's joking?? For you they might be easier in your mind. I have a wormdrives and I have sidewinders and I can cut with great accuracy with both. You are definitely out there! It sounds like you think that a guy who makes a cut with a wormdrive will have a straighter cut than a guy who cuts with a sidewinder.Your quoting stuff from an article in a magazine and going by that instead of your own experience. I could care less what that page says. I have been cutting for a long time now and can cut with either saw, it's that simple!!!!""That’s nice, but have you ever used a right handed sidewinder to cut 2x12 rafter tails with an 18†overhang on a 12/12 pitch? At 5’ – 9†tall, it is impossible for me to see either the blade or the guide with a right handed sidewinder at that angle while walking the top plate.""No, I cut them while there on the bench, nice and comfortable working like a gentleman instead of hanging off the top plate and then I nail them on my nice straight lined walls and get a nice even overhang. I do cut 2' cantilevers though with my right blade sidewinder with my right hand with great accuracy. Did you see Haun cutting rafter tails from the top plate? Is that why you do it? That's not the only way.""If you’re right handed, just try and cut rafter tails while walking a wall plate without one. Unless you’re seven feet tall, it’s practically impossible to see either the blade or the guide. The weight of the worm drive also helps to drive the saw down through the rafter tails. The length of the saw will enable you to reach the end of the cut even on a steep pitch.""My God!, you sound like you just started framing yesterday! Why don't you make sure your walls are straight and cut the tails on the bench????""That may be true, but a worm drive is easier to control with that arm. This isn’t only because of the balance in the tool I’ve mentioned already, but also because the more powerful saw is easier to push through the lumber and is less likely to kick back. “Haun prefers the . . . higher torque of worm-drive saws, arguing that their inherently safer because their less likely to kick back.â€â€“FHB #173 p. 110 par. 2.""That’s a ridiculous and an erroneous statement Are your arms the size of a toothpicks? Give me a break here, Journyman. You can't control a saw??? I'm surprised your arm hasn't broken in half when you pick up the wormdrive.... The sidewinders are lighter but if they kick back, it's because your not holding the board right, your letting it bind up. While cutting with your right hand you should be using your left hand to pull the board in an up so that it doesn't kick back. If it does you should be in a position where you HOLD the saw and it doesn't kick back into any body parts.You can always feel if the saw is going to start to kick back just by the way it moves and the sound it makes. I know my saws like the back of my hands because I use them every day and I know exactly what they will do, I can feel it. I respect my saws. I will position myself where I can make a comfortable cut.I could care less what Haun says and page FHB #173 Page 110 par 2. I do my own thing and not what Haun says or some page in a magazine. ""And please don’t tell me you’re another one of those guys that thinks he’s a better framer than Larry Haun! If you do, I will simply suggest you submit your suggestions to the pages of FHB. When they publish it, then I’ll consider giving your advice the same amount of credence.""Where the hell did that come from???? Are you in love with Haun??? Is he your God???? You have a picture of him on your dashboard or something or in your pouch???? Maybe you’re the president of the Haun fan club or something???? So, just beacsue I don't have an article in a magazine and Haun does, that makes him right and you will only take advice from a guy who has an article??? There's many people on this forum that have posted here before that should have an article in a magazine and don't, but I would take their advice any day.The thought of me being a better framer than Haun or anyone else has never crossed my mind. You must think that he's the best framer because he has articles in a magazine but not me. I have nothing against him.You obviously don't have enough framing experience just with your posts that I read. You keep trying to show that you have experience and using Haun's name and articles in magazines to try and prove a point which makes you inexperienced. I prove my points from my real life experience on the field for the past 23 years by using my saw and any other tools. I don't need magazine articles to do any of that. Every one is different and both saws are good and any EXPERIENCED carpenter can cut ACCURATE with either saw that they are comfortable with.Joe Carola
Edited 6/19/2006 9:31 am ET by Framer
“A wormdrive doesn't control your cut; the guy cutting controls the cut with his own arm.â€
That may be true, but a worm drive is easier to control with that arm.
That's seems strange. In my experience, the wormdrive seems to want to wander...
I apreciate your explanation. It helps a "lightly-experienced" person like myself to hear what more seasoned users have discovered through actual usage. I try to learn as much theory as possible from reading good materials, i.e. Taunton, but I sometimes find that theory is one thing and actual hands-on experience is another.
Thanks much.
I’m glad you liked it. It took a little time to write up that post, but I love to share what I can as there have been others that have done the same for me. When someone sees some way they can benefit from a post I write, it makes the time spent writing it worth while.-T
Thanks again!
Here's an opinion for ya. Proper way to cut with a sidewinder is one hand on the trigger handle and other hand on the grip they provide forward of the trigger handle.
Pick up a sidewinder as you usually would (what feels natural to you). If your right hand naturally prefers the trigger handle, buy a blade right; you cut with waste to the right. If your left hand naturally prefers the trigger handle, buy a blade left; you cut with waste to the left.
I am a lefty and wish I bought the blade left. I have a PC blade right sidewinder that seems as if it will last forever, so I am forever cutting framing stock using my non-dominant hand on the trigger handle. ;-( For offcuts of sheet goods or a long rip, I stand to the right of the saw with the waste on the right (at about my waist level), using my dominant left hand on the trigger handle and right hand on the forward handle. ;-)
"Let's get crack-a-lackin" --- Adam Carolla
I am right handed and I have a PC sidewinder w/ blade on left. I've read the previous posts and can only add that I like it with the blade on left. Doesn't liking it count for something? I do good work with it. That counts, too.
Yes, owning two saws would be better. Heck, three would be best: sidewinder w/ blade on left, sidewinder w/ blade on right, worm drive. Fact is they each has their respective advantages AND disadvantages.
I recall reading a tool review years ago in FH and the author summarized by saying: 'if you use your tool for activity A then the DeWalt tool is the best and, if you use your tool for activity B then the Bosch tool is the best and, if you use your tool for activity C then the Makita is the best.' Why, I was livid. I paid good money for this subscription and the best this tool reviewer could do is say all of the brands were the best. I wanted to know which one was the best. That non-committal bast@rd.
Since then I've learned things. He may have been right in that case. I don't know because I couldn't afford to buy all three. Life often involves compromise. But also remember we are a very adaptive species - we could probably be making perfect cuts with a middle-bladed worm drive while laying on our backs. That fact has kept me from tossing out all my imperfect tools.
I'm not trying to be a middle-of-the-roader or a pacifist. I have strong opinions as well. The discussion (even if heated) is good. It is how we move forward, do better and hopefully influence the manufacturers of our tools. The best thing is that others share their experience; giving you a place to start where prior you hadn't one. Good luck.
I appreciate your response. I have owned a series of really cheap saws over the years but given that I only made a few cuts per year, I told myself the low cost and low performance was justifiable. Now that I am getting near retirement age, I find myself getting into more and more projects (family and friends) where better (higher-priced) tools make sense. Fortunately, being older also means I can afford better tools - if I can determine which ones to buy. One great thing I have on my side is my wife. She works with me on the projects and she is a firm believer in quality power tools! She is the driving force encouraging me to make investiments in performance equipment.
No matter what kind of saw you choose, getting decent blades will make cutting easier and safer. I like the red Freud blades.