I found lots of info on using laser levels, metal channel, sistering joists, etc., but nothing on what I’d like to do.
Maybe 100 year old house, basement kitchen about 15×20 with low, water damaged ceiling–1/2″ tongue and groove wood–now removed. A couple of the joists VERY undulating on bottom–look like they were cut after more than a few drinks <G>. All joists appear to have sagged in the middle of the room, some more than others, over the years.
I’d like to screw drywall directly to the joists, without using furring strips, shimming where needed. Not terribly concerned that the ceiling is dead level, or perfectly flat. My question is, how to start?
Presume, and check, that near center of joists is low point, and work from there towards side walls? Use string line down low point and near both walls at joist ends to measure for shims?
I have levels, 8′ straight edge, line, etc., but no laser or water level. Walls are some kind of crumbly stone that don’t hold nails well.
Thanks.
Replies
A water level is easy to rig with some clear tubing. You can use one to mark a level line around the perimeter (make it easy and put it at about 4 feet up) and then you can measure from the floor to the level point at several places in the room and mark the measurements on the floor.
If you insist on using what you have I'd suggest placing four sawhorses in the corners of the room and using those to anchor lines to, following the perimeter. Adjust the lines up and down until they register level compared to your level held under the line, then add an X in the middle and make sure those lines are level. From those you can get measurements to the floor in a number of places.
<then you can measure from the floor to the level point at several places in the room and mark the measurements on the floor.>You're suggesting it's best to have the ceiling parallel the floor? That hadn't occurred to me, as I'd thought it "ideally" should be somewhat close to level.<What kind of level DO you have? we'll work with that....>String level, general purpose 2' level, and digital Smart level. I've used a water level in the past, just don't have any tubing now.<I can't imagine trying to level a 4'x8' sheet of drywall while trying to hold it up>Nor can I. <G> My thought had been to place shims as needed--using string lines--prior to any heavy lifting.<You're nuts.> And cheap, and obstinate. <G> I'll readily admit that strapping would probably be fastest, and not cost much. But I'm in no great hurry and THOUGHT I might be able to achieve a similar result using string lines to place shims--and save 3/4" of head room. May well be wrong--which is why I'm asking.<But don't get hung up on LEVEL >Somewhat close to flat was my goal. If I end up using strapping, you're saying to pull a string line next to each one, in order to adjust it, yes?Thanks for your thoughts--much appreciated!
I think flat is going to have to be your main concern since you don't have a real level. If the floor is fine, work from that to measure same distance up in each corner, then snap lines on the wall and string lines to that.Since the framing members that exist now ae sagging, they are over spanned and likely to continue to sag, throwing all your hard work out the window.So I would sister to them alongside with something like 2x6. That would add strength to prevent further sagging. Set the bottom of each sister to the string, then install the SR to them.The metal C stud idea good and easier, but would not add the same strength.
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What kind of level DO you have? we'll work with that....
With patience, a water level can be made from any long clear plastic tubing.
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I had to level the ceiling on both floors of my house, and I did so by sistering a light gauge metal stud to the joists. I pulled it in from 2.5" out of level to within 1/8"-1/4". I can't imagine trying to level a 4'x8' sheet of drywall while trying to hold it up, or move it around in a small space. It was hard enough to get a single metal stud level in one axis, with a sheet good you'd be working on two, and would complicate things. I would definitely recommend using strapping or RC1 to first level your ceiling, as it'll be much much easier to actually get level in the first place, and it'll be easier to work with if there are any eccentricities.
Z
"I'd like to screw drywall directly to the joists, without using furring strips, shimming where needed. Not terribly concerned that the ceiling is dead level, or perfectly flat. My question is, how to start?"
You're nuts. The GWB needs to be tight to the substrate (joists) otherwise the screws/ nails will be proud of the paper, screw/ nail too deep (breaking the paper) and the fastener has minimal holding power. If you think you can shim as needed - think again. How do you shim the GWB in the center of the panel/ sheet. Ya can't.
Sistering the joists with 2xs or metal studs as someone suggested is a great idea. So is installing furring strips. All are excellent TIME and SANITY savers.
Screw a 1" x 2" x 10" to two joists vertically at two corners - . Screw a level second 1x2 to the two others horizontally. This is the underside of your sisters along one end of the joists. Repeat for other end. Get the picture? To confirm level, run a line between the diagonals. The diagonals should just touch.
Or use your 8' straight edge working from left to right.
Hope this helps.
Frankie
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Lots of good tips here, especially those encouraging you to spend the extra $20 on strapping.
But don't get hung up on LEVEL unless it's all pretty close already -- within 1/2", say.
If it isn't, just FLATTEN it. Pull a couple of string lines to find out how low you have to go. With rough or hand-hewn beams, this is often easier to do after you have tacked up the strapping with skinny finish nails, not before.
Measure down an even amount from your strapping, whatever it takes -- maybe 1/2" - 3/4", and snap a line/pull a string on the two walls perpendicular to the strapping. Shim the ends to this line, and start by straightening each strap to its own string.
You can stop there, but it never hurts to hold up a decent straightedge, as long as you've got, to cross-check perpendicular to the strapping, and make minor adjustments.
It's a process, and the further along you go, the better the ceiling will be.
*******
"Not terribly concerned that the ceiling is dead level, or perfectly flat."
Good, it usually doesn't matter much. Concentrate on a crisp, straight perimeter, and forgive yourself a few/many sins in the field.
AitchKay