My wife and I just bought our first house. It’s a bungalow just outside of Minneapolis that was built in 1923. The floors on the ground level slope from the outside of the house towards the center, mid-span support. At its worst point, I would say it drops about two inches over a 10 ft span. Here is my dilemma. We are on a budget to remodel this house and I imagine that leveling the floor is going to be pretty costly. However, I’m having trouble with starting a relatively major cosmetic remodel, without addressing the structure first. I’d hate to do all this work and be left with mediocre results. Any thoughts or advice?
Also, if there’s anyone who knows somebody in the twin cities with experience leveling floors, I’d love a contact.
Thanks.
Replies
For myself, I find that to be one of the less expensive things to do to a house, depending of course on the reason it is saging. Not too hard for a handy HO to do DIY.
I have to make some assumptions tho based on it being a small bungalo but better if you can answer all these questions first
Are there walls in the middle that will rise
How much space under - crawlspace or cellar?
second storey?
Roof style? how does it bear in the center of the building?
is there a center beam? How is it supported?
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Your instincts are correct. One of the most common things I see is expensive work done on top of easily corrected flaws. Fix it first.
Sag in middle like that can have many causes. Need a lot more description. Size of house, span of floor joists, center beam size and span. Condition and number of and spacing of cellar posts, what's on top of the center beam, where are the bearing walls upstairs, what's built above that will be impacted by lifting 2 inches, is there a chimney involved, and where is it, how is the roof load distributed, how is the second floor load distributed, what are the footers under the cellar post, etc. etc.
I would suggest getting a local professional to look at it for you. You can probably do the work yourself. As piffin said, it's pretty simple proceedures, but you have to know what you are looking at to decide how to do it.
Steve
edit: I see you are asking for contacts. Steve Madole of Architrave in St. Paul is good with that kind of stuff. Tell him Steve Zerby recommended him. I worked for him for a couple of years. 651-248-9544 [email protected]
Edited 6/24/2008 9:14 am by mmoogie
Edited 6/24/2008 9:15 am by mmoogie
Thanks for the responses everyone.
It appears that the sloping is caused by what Ted described. The load bearing wall sits above a beam that runs directly down the center of the length of the basement. The posts that support the beam are on individual footings that have settled more than the block foundation. The basement is partially finished, but from what I can see, the posts and beam appear to be in decent shape. I'll get a better idea as I start pulling down some sheetrock.
Steve, I appreciate the referral. I'll try to get in touch with him today and I'll let him know that you sent me. I'd love to do the work myself, but this one freaks me out a little. Something about calling my wife at work and trying to describe what went wrong when I was trying to jack up our new house.
I'm sure this will be the first of countless questions as this project gets underway.
Thanks again.
Steve
LOL, if anything goes wrong as a DIY, you would not be able to call her at work, because it would be that the jack post kicked out from the hydraulic jack and kicked you in the jaw and broke it. All she would hear is a gurgle.;)
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I'm going to second Piffin here: IMO, it's not a big deal.
I'm going to second Piffin here: IMO, it's not a big deal.
Agreed, it's not a big expense. However, it's not something for the inexperienced. Any slight oversight can easily have big consequences. I mean, houses are kind of heavy!
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Edited 6/24/2008 8:15 pm by Ted W.
Houses are kind of heavy, but he isn't jacking the whole house, just the midspan.
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Midspan is pretty heavy too.
I would never advise a novice to do something like this because if the jack slips it is feasable that the center of the house could come down on him. Not likely, but possible. Nothing personal against OP, but I would rather assume the average DIY homeowner will not make sure the jack is plum and will not add shims every 1/4" or so, and might even move that annoying post out of his way while he's jacking. I wouldn't want that on my consience.
By the same token, I would not advise any homeowner on how to replace an electrical panel or how to rig a home-made hanging platform. Some things should be left to the pros.--------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.netSee some of my work at TedsCarpentry.com
Well, AFTER he comes back with more detail, I was going to tell him how to do all that, but it now sounds like he has self eliminated from actually doing the work
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We all like pictures. Take some of the progress and keep us posted.Good luck with the project.TFB (Bill)
I run into a lot of that here in Chicago, in the old 1920's bungalows. The beam down the center of the house supporting the load bearing wall is on posts, which in turn are on individual footings, which does not provide as much support as the outside wall on the full foundation wall and full perimeter footing.
Other causes might be water in the basement rotted the bottoms of the posts, or leaking (cracked) drain tile under the basement floor washed away some of the soil.
Determining the cause would be the first task. I can't really guide you on that except to say if the bottoms of the posts are rotted, that's the cause. If not, then it's probably settling but it might possibly be a cracked drain tile (clay pipe) under the floor.
Jacking up the center beam and shimming the top of the post, or better yet replacing the post, is not a big deal if you know what you're doing. Some things to watch out for - the concrete floor is probably very thin. You'll need to place the jack on a thick, wide board to distribute the weigh or the jack may actually crack the floor. Also, you want to use the jack in a way that won't allow it to kick out when under pressure.
Finally, use a few jacks and lift the beam evenly by working each jack a little at a time. The house will creek and it will be scary as heck, but that's the way it's done. Personally, I don't see this as a DIY project. Get someone who has done this before (Moogy's recommendation). But at least you should know what they should be doing.
Congrats on the new home. :)
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See some of my work at TedsCarpentry.com
> things to watch out for - the concrete floor is probably very thin<
Brother in Elgin found out the hard way doing exactly that same procedure. He jacked his over a course of a week or so and used the doors that were binding as a gauge to get the level of flatness required and not a level or string. Figured that the doors hadn't been planed/adjusted and were close to correctly installed originally so they'd be fine as the reference point. There's Level and then there's Level Enough.
There was a great tip in one issue of FHB, the main gist was don't worry about LEVEL, what your looking for is FLAT. Last year I worked on a home documented to 1766. Last room to be done was the dining room out 5" in l4 feet at one corner.