This will be somewhat detailed, so bear with me so that I can give you the entire facts.
I had a helper wire up a light fixture in the ceiling for a bathroom. On the same circuit there are flourescent lights in two other rooms, one lighting unit in each room. When the circuit was killed naturally so did the flourescents go out. Because of how the circuit was we needed to tap into, I had to pull the light switch out of the wall in the bathroom that controlled the old light fixture being replaced in order to positively determine the wiring scheme. I fouind a bit of a mess in the switch box, so had to unnut it all to positively identify the Line (power) side. Once determined, my helper nutted it all back together again and proceeded to install the new fixture. The connections were made to the new light fixture, turned the power back on the new light worked fine, but the flourescents in the two other rooms wouldn’t come on for nothing. Neither of the two.
Puzzled, I pulled out the switch for one of the flourescents. Verified it was a good switch, positive continuity. I checked for voltage, got a 123v reading on the Line side. So, I got 123v, good switch, no lights. I didn’t take out the other light switch to the other fixture, being satisfied I was getting volts on the one I was sure I was getting it on the other.
More puzzled, I had to think it had something to do with the new light fixture and the splices or that something went wrong in the switch box when we reassembled and renutted it. It made no sense that this would be the problem because I was getting volts at the switch for the flourescent which told me all the splices were assembled correctly, but as Holmes said, eliminate the probable, what’s left, no matter how improbable is the answer.
So I went back in to the bathroom, disassembled the new light fixture and I did notice some very shoddy work from my helper. (believe it or not, I canned him after this incident). For one he had pulled the wires through the hole in the metal bracket, made the connections to the fixture wires, and of course bent it all under the fixture covering. When I disassembled it I noticed that the hole edge of the bracket had cut into the neutral (yes I know it’s the groundED wire) ever so slightly enough bare wire shown. Further examination showed it occured also for the hot wire. Even worse, the ground screw was very poorly secured to the bracket, it wasn’t even tight by any means.
Next I did NOT reassemble the new light fixture yet, I moved over to the switchbox we looked at earlier that controled this light fixture. I pulled all the splices out, looked at the nuts and found more shoddy work (additoinal reasons I canned him today). Nuts were not on tight, twists were quite poor. I redid those connections and for the heck of it turned the power back on and voila, my flourescents lit up.
I don’t understand the problem. I was getting voltage at the flourescent switches, why didn’t they light up. Makes no sense that redoing the connection again would magically make it work when the same volts are going to it as before. I’m wondering, in the new ceiling fixture, is it possible those nicks in the wire insulation could’ve been shorting against the bracket (this was a plastic box) causing the flourescents to somehow not work? I know this is a bizarre idea, but I have no other explanation. Any takers for ideas of your own? I wanna hear.
By the way, when I saw these poor connections I decided to look in other boxes my helper wired up. I was greeted with anger, poor connections, nuts on loose, bare wire hanging from under the nut. For all these reasons, he was canned today. I can’t afford that kind of liability.
Replies
First off, you're not an electrician and you have a helper making connections? Big liability there. Don't get me wrong, most of us do simple fixture changeovers. However, check your ins policy and you'll find that any problem resulting from this work is probably not covered. With any kind of volume of electrical, you'd be smart to get to know a small electrical contractor that would do these small jobs for you.
Perhaps a loose neutral as the initial problem.
Oh yeah, curious name you use.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Calvin, I wear many hats. I'm well qualified to do electrical work and I've never failed an inspection and work closely with my electrical inspector when ambiguous situations arise. This helper I hired supposedly worked for an electrician for a year. His employer just one day stopped calling him for work. I can imagine why from what I saw. I had a level of trust in this persons workmanship. Unfortunately, appears I got burned and was too much of a nice person to hire this guy (long story). I caught the error, went back and redid his work and I will pass inspection fine. However, I appreciate your concerns, they are indeed valid for Joe Blow contractor who sez "Yeah, i can do that" and proceeds to not know what the heck he's doing :)
About my screen name....I shoot fireworks on the side.
You going to rhodefest? Maybe jamestown allows a contained backyard display.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Calvin's through of a bad neutral connections is probably it.
You said "I checked for voltage, got a 123v reading on the Line side". Not you don't.
Voltage is a measurement between TWO points. You said that one side of your measurement was the switch. What was the other test lead connected to? Unless it was the neutral running to the light then the test could have been misleading.
Also if it was a digital meter there impedence is so high that it can get measurement from a "non connected" wire because of the small capacitive coupling to other wires.
Bill, good point. I did not measure across the neutral, I measured voltage to the ground wire at 123v. I think you might've figured it out, thanks.
Yeah, I know about the impedence thing. There is times I get a reading like 22v or less even on a dead line with my digital meter. Not on every dead line, but sometimes.
I wonder, would you hire somebody with no driver's license whatsoever and send him to take a two ton truck to deliver materials on the other side of town? Your anger may be misplaced.
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Piff, your point is well stated. The guy supposedly worked for an electrician for over a year. I asked him questions to see if he knew his stuff. I was satisfied. I mean, if I have to babysit him then I may as well do the work myself. I figured he had the competence, but I was misled. Hey, I"m rather angy at myself, too. I should've checked his work early on as opposed until something happened that necessitated it.
That's a lesson I learned early on. Some guys claim to be good at anything and everything. One good question is why did he leave that last employment.
One of my first hirings was a laborer who claimed to have done a lot of painting.
"This soffit needs paint, can you cut it in or should we hang a drop clothe over the wall?"
"No problem, man, I can get that easy!"
I check half an hour later and find gobs of runs down th ewall for twenty feet. My first expensive lesson as an employer.
So now the new guys might feel like I am treating them as baby at first until they prove up.
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