I’ve been ramblin’ on about this subject for a while, so here’s what I did in my step kid’s back yard over the past few months.
He started with this spec house some RE agent put up. Got a good price under 200K for it. 1/2 A lot with huge towering white oaks and white pines. This lot is on the west coast of Michigan. Under 12 to 16 inches of good clean topsoil is all sand – all the way to China.
The deck off of the back speaks volumes. No egress, small, old wimmenized lumber. And it basically sits above a difficult-to-landscape hole in the yard.
Under the deck and on either side are 3 good sized basement windows, presumably to allow light and provide for possible emergency egress windows should the basement get finished into more than the 4 bedrooms already in the house. (Into the project, we get an opinion that this poured concrete foundation and window configuration was not designed to have that soil pushed back up against the wall.)
But you can see storage of things under said deck. Don’t we all try to hide some stuff there? That’s one of the major problems to me with decks – the space under is commonly wasted.
So’s we came up with a plan to replace the deck and develop some storage space under it for tools and lawn equipment. But any traditional deck limits the viability of the storage due to water dripping thru the deck boards. Therefore, we wanted to provide a solid “deck” to provide dry storage under.
And the hole. How to make the hole landscapable and provide access to the storage area? Can’t really fill it in with those windows.
So we decided to make the hole bigger.
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Help if I would attach the pic's!
This is the before.
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This is the new hole with a start on the concrete retaining wall blocks.
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And looking back south towards the house,
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And then towards the west neighbor,
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More to come thru the day...
Edited 6/26/2007 11:22 am ET by peteshlagor
Edited 6/26/2007 11:23 am ET by peteshlagor
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Edited 6/26/2007 11:25 am ET by peteshlagor
Looks interesting. Gotta keep an eye on this thread.
"What's an Arkansas flush?......It's a small revolver and any five cards."
So the concept is essentially a sunken patio with two concentric 3' high retaining walls in a big circular form. Along the north side (furthest from the house), the grade rises the 6 feet over a distance of 35, and will be lined with Turfstones. These turfstones will then circle around the inside of the lower wall and enter into the under deck structure.
Within that circle will be a paver patio with stairs inside of the previous ramp also leading up (or down). Following is our crude rendition of the plan.
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Once into the project, we had to make a few changes due to the support needed for the deck away from the house. (Somewhere in these pictures, you'll see a spare structure in the background that was the original post and beam structure holding up the far end.) We originally wanted to use a variation of the retaining wall blocks to form the perimeter of the underdeck enclosure. The variation being no back lip was involved and they were to be stacked (and either mortared or glued) vertically together. We got into a pizzing contest with a foundation contrator that insisted it couldn't be done and got the unwritten opinion of his engineer that it wouldn't work. So we got another contractor.
The second contractor poured an 8" thick regular foundation wall. He allowed his forms to be loose enough to form curves and inserted blocks where I needed cutouts. Put his bar where needed and we were on our way. (After having to fix a misplaced block and having a special steel lintel made up.) Sorry, I failed to catch pictures at this point.
We still wanted our split face retaining block appearance, so we found a semi retired mason to help us lay the block. But we had to split each block in half - vertically and lengthwise. So a block that was 12" long, 6" high, and 9" deep would become two at 12x6x4.5. Essentially allowed us to cut our block needs for that portion in half as the split face was on both sides.
Wait, how did we split these guys? Piece of cake. One of the best investments in tools I've ever made.
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This model is called a StoneSplitter because it has a 40 ton hydralic jack doing the work. $1700. They have another model called the Block Splitter with a 20 tonner. It'll split an 18"x6x12" block into 2 18"x6"x6" in seconds. Pneumatically assisted for those with bad knees.
Veneering this allowed us to solve another issue. We wanted to install a built in outdoor fireplace for the lower patio. That firebox is 20" deep. The poured wall was 7.5." We pulled the veneer out away from the CC wall further on the oversized footing for the fireplace enough to give 20" space to have the whole unit encased within masonry. Had a 1/2" diamond plate lintel (14" wide at the biggest point) with perpendicular brackets on the back side to bolt into the CC wall above the firebox - keeping the load off of the unit. So that made the fit nice.
But the biggest issue this new veneer pattern allowed was to have the vent of the firebox on the outside of the poured wall - exactly 10' 2" away from the main house. Significant because now there is no code addressing the height of the venting chimney. 3" closer and I would have had to build a 20 something foot high chimney.
The final chimney is in the last of this story. But at this point, we had enough in place for our carps to come in and install the decks.
The deck itself is built off of the ledger of the original. Since the carps were the same ones that built the house, they easily were able to extend the ledger the full 36' length of the new deck. And stuck a nice piece of flashing for the whole run.
The framing is the usual 2x12 on 16" centers perpendicular from the house. But we need a 1/4" slope to be built in for proper water runoff. That was done by using 3/4 ext. ply (instead of a double plate) on the fartherest point away from the house as a top plate for the poured wall allowing that point to be 2 1/2" lower than the ledger board. And then shimming as the poured wall came in closer to the house along the curve.
The rim joist became several layers of 1/2" ext. ply. We then decked the entire frame with 3/4" exterior plywood, screwed every 6." Under the overhanging deck (which was about 12"), we installed 1/2" ext ply underneath to close in the deck.
Railings will eventually be the white vinyl slip on covers for 4x4's and the prefabbed vinyl stretchers between. But at this point, we run the 4x's thru the decking and lag them into the joists, ensuring a solid post.
At this point, the snows began. So we covered the deck for the winter with 30# paper, attached temporary railings and closed it up for the season.
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Edited 6/26/2007 10:11 pm ET by peteshlagor
Edited 6/26/2007 10:12 pm ET by peteshlagor
Edited 6/26/2007 10:13 pm ET by peteshlagor
We found that there was absolutely no wheelbarrow or tractor traction in that sand going up the ramp. The first thing we got going betwixt snowstorms was to continue the turfstones up the hill. That allowed us to better get materials down as well as excess sand up.
Then we focused on the stairs. One variation of these blocks are called, "column blocks." 18x6x9. One end and an adjacent edge are split face. The others are all formed. They are laid in a square block pattern 27" sq. so all sides have the exposed split face. We used these same one as bases and risers for the stairs. So the final result has the front of each step with 21" of ceement in some form or another under it and that rests on the one below. It all becomes a big monolith when stacked. Fortunately, our early measurements worked and all foundations and funny lays deep in the veneer were covered when finished.
We then hired us a crew to lay our pavers for the patio, the steps and the top landing. They worked up to a point where we needed to get the concrete on the deck before they could finish.
Remember we stopped at putting a layer of felt over the 3/4" ply before winter. We now go back and repair any rips, reposition and restaple. And also remember, in this procedure, the felt serves as a slipshield, not a water barrier. But we do have a large piece of felt slipped up behind the siding and running over the flat felt in a flashing manner.
Our next step to to place a complete layer of expanded metal lath on top of the felt. Using 1"flat crown, 5/8" legged staples and staple gun, the lath is fastened to the deck with a staple every two inches (22 to 28 per sq. ft.). It is continued on the vertical edge and even under the overhang. The entire deck is totally covered with this lath - top, bottom, and sides. And stapled and stapled.
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Since we're building that grill on the deck at the low side of the deck's tilt, I had the siding guy fab up a Z flashing to lay on top of the first course of 1/2 height block we used as a base. Here's the beginning of that base. You'll notice in this picture that he has also flashed the 4x posts. We want to keep the underneath dry.
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After all the lath is in place, the first coat of Miracote Repair Mortar III is applied. This is a smooth, flexible, synthetic copolymer cementitious underlayment designed for thinner smoothing situations. This is completely troweled into the lath, following application of the "primer" which is similar to a latex concrete adhesive. The bottom of the container holds a bit thicker mix of the mortar. We then used this to "hawk up" on to the vertical and underneath lath. This formulation of the repair mortar is extremely sticky. I'm told it can be used directly over (cleaned) ceramic (or other) tile in a shower to form the base for another layer of either tile, concrete, whatever. It will adhere to that old substrate.
Here is a closer up of the finished and cured mortar. It has a blackish appearance that turns grey after grinding.
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You can see both trowel marks and the lath telegraphing thru. For this application, it doesn't matter. But if you're a bit anal, or preparing for another smoother application following, a floor sander with a closed coat paper will take them out, or I found a 4 1/2" flat diamond cup on an angle grinder very effective. This same picture above shows the intersection with the house and the aforementioned paper running behind the siding. At this point, I had the siding guy fab up a real piece of flashing (L shape) and attach it to the house with a bit of PL under to hold it tight to this mortar coat.
And a second coat of Repair mortar is then squeegeed over the first. Here's a view of the side of the deck following.
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At this point, we wanted to get the mason in and finish the grill so's his droppings wouldn't contaminate the subsequent procedures. A couple of shots:
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You can see the mud droppings around the grill.
The next step is waterproofing.
Edited 6/27/2007 1:03 am ET by peteshlagor
Edited 6/27/2007 1:03 am ET by peteshlagor
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Edited 6/27/2007 1:08 am ET by peteshlagor
Miracote Membrane A is a thick, rubberized formulation that can be cleaned up with water. Soon after finishing because it cures rapidly. It's like a thick paint.
Primer gets applied initially by diluting membrane A 50/50 with clean water. This thin coat gets rolled on.
After a few hours, the first coat gets applied direct out of the can with either a notched squeegee or in our case, we used a 3/16 notched trowel and backrolled, attempting to gain a 25 mill thickness. This gets over ALL of the repair mortar - top, sides, and bottom. We were careful to run it up on the vertical walls over the flashing and along the edges were transitions to the existing house occured. Several hours later, a second coat is applied just as the first, but we then broadcast silica sand into the top coat to enhance bonding subsequently.
This ends up to be a grey color (other colors are available). Quite flexible and rubbery. We also used this to coat the inside of the grill openings to keep moisture from migrating thru the penetrations we drilled for the gas line and electrical conduit. Sorry, I didn't get a picture of this prior to the next step. But testing with a garden hose proved we achieved our goal.
We are then ready for the final cementitious topcoat. For our project, we choose the Mirastamp product for a stamped finish mimicing flagstone, without joints. (Other choices are available.) That's what our stamps were. Mirastamp gets mixed with one gallon of it's diluant to a 45 pound bag of mix. But first, we mix our colorant into the diluant. All of the diluant we will be using for the job gets mixed with color first. The buckets are mixed together until a number of alloquotes are available for the whole job. This ensures even color.
I picked up a nice mixer - the Perles middle range 10.6 Amp model. It mixes this whole bag of mix without blinking an eye and allows for rapid prep.
Each bag of Mirastamp will cover 18 sq. ft. at 1/4" thickness. I wanted more to be sure we had sufficient depth. So we placed it at about 1/2" thick. And allowed to set up a bit. After 30 mihutes or so, we were able to get on it with the stamps and pounded in our patterns.
Mirastamp does not have the ability to hang vertically. The sides of the deck and underneath gets treated with a similarly colored sister product calored, Miracote MPC (multipurpose protective coating). Our version was white sanded to match the texture of the Mirastamp. We used a paint brush and small trowel to place this following the use of that previously mentioned adhesive primer.
Our final color became rather pinkish. By intention, but inadequate for a young guy's house. Therfore, we wanted to add a few "characteristics" to improve appearance. In this case, we used several tints of Mirastain II (a water based suspended topical solution of pigments) mixed up in diluant and lightly sprayed on here and there and then brushed about. (Similar to faux painting.) This turned our pinkish color into more of a mottled brown.
A few shots:
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Edited 6/27/2007 1:54 am ET by peteshlagor
Edited 6/27/2007 1:54 am ET by peteshlagor
Then we get the siding guy to come back and reinstall the siding and make any repairs.
The carp's come back and finish the railings. And we're waiting for the sparky to finish some pro bono job for an in-law to finish the lights and trim things out.
So we now have our lower patio, but the fireplace will be functional in about 3 weeks. Seemed to have gotten some of our fancy concrete into the gas line shutoff valve!
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Overall, the deck concrete was the simplest of the individual components of this project. Absolutely no rocket science was involved in the application and techniques. It was helpful to be able to call the regional rep for tips since this was our first time dealing with the Mirastamp and Miraflex II decking system.
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The costs of this concrete decking - without consideration of the underlying framing costs, comes to about a bit less than $3.00 per sq. ft. for materials ONLY. One person is all that is needed to know about the product and the applications methods. These techniques can easily be explained and shown to rookies for satisfactory performance.
Comparing this cost to that of a fancier composite or exotic wood - from the latest Taunton book on Decks, it's similar in cost of materials.
We have had another poster mentioning quotes for this to be done for him run 11 to 15 dollars per sq ft. Doesn't surprise me at all. But I do dispute his claim that he can get T&G Ipe for less.
Recall that thread about, "Needing some really good business advice?" There are many reasons for a contractor to have to price his product or service at 3 to 4 times his cost of materials. This is normal throughout capitalism. It also explains why we have DIY'ers.
Edited 10/31/2007 1:03 pm ET by peteshlagor
Thanks for posting this. I had the impression that the system you were talking about was an all cementious kind of thing.At the wall under siding connection, did you turn the expanded metal up there or something to keep it from cracking or breaking at the fold? Or use a cant strip. It's hard to tell what that detail in in the photos.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
The siding connection saw the siding contractor install his piece of custom bent Al flashing - over a piece of felt making the same bend and that over a piece of ledger flashing. The flat leg of that flashing was imbedded in the mortar. The same flashing was used at each post/deck joint and at the grill. That joint really should not receive any movement that could compromise it's performance.
My only problem with the whole issue was getting on the fresh Mirastamp prior to it really setting up enuff. My stamping process left a few indentations in the surface where tiny pools of water can stand after a rain. For now, I have the HO blow off the deck with a leaf blower in such cases.
Should I feel as if I want to deal with that, or if the HO wants a different stamp or color, I'll simply get a floor grinder and remove just enough of the top layer to get to bare Mirastamp (and before the waterproofing - about 1/4") and then redo the top coat.
I want to emphasize, this is NOT rocket science. Any reasonably compentent person (I had a gurl running the mixer and preparing the concrete) can do any of the steps within this process. When I see other contractors doing this type of work, I see many day laborers involved for the first time. And things turn out just fine!
Pete,
Nice job. Thanx for sharing.
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Wow. That's a mighty big hole you added there!
When I saw the first photo (before), my initial take was to extend the deck out to one side so it would meet up with the ground more easily. I definitely did see doing what you did. But it looks good so far and will probably look spectacular once you guys are done. Having all the sand underneath might even make drainage an easier issue since it should all run through.
That's a heckuva lot of retaining wall though!
Glen