Hi All,
My wife and I are contemplating purchasing land in the next couple of years and having a log home built, possibly from a kit. We really don’t know anything about log homes other than the fact that we like the way they look. We were hoping that financially they may be more reasonable to build in comparison to a conventional home. I would appreciate if anyone out there could point us in the right direction as far as how to research building a log home as well as potential gotchas as well as benefits of doing so. If you could also point us in the direction of reputable dealers of log homes that would also be great.
This will be our primary residence after we sell our existing home after my daughter graduates. We are hoping to find land on a lake with a view. We live in Southern, NH and will probably stay in this area. Any help would be appreciated. I would especially be interested in hearing from anyone who has already had a log home built.
Thanks
Replies
Log homes / prefeb
check out : http://www.buildingsystems.com/
They have some info on log homes, kits / suppliers, etc...
>>>We were hoping that
>>>We were hoping that financially they may be more reasonable to build in comparison to a conventional home.
Nope. In fact you usually pay a premium for log construction (at least around here). You will likely also pay a premium for subtrades, as special techniques are required to run electrical and plumbing services through logs.
Consider framing false 2x4 walls inside some rooms for drywall application. Interior log walls tend to soak up a lot of light, thereby darkening rooms. Log walls tend to hold a lot of dust too.
We briefly flirted with the notion of log construction. Then we decided to go with a conventional stick framed house with log post and beam work and exposed rough sawn rafters.
Detail the windows properly...........
Over the years I've run across several cases of window/door leakage where they didn't properly repel the water. Inow one case where the homowner furred the logs and hung vinyl on it. Now that is a sin.
>>>Inow one case where the
>>>Inow one case where the homowner furred the logs and hung vinyl on it. Now that is a sin.
Hahahahaha..... OMG...That's unbelievable.
Swear on my mothers grave..........
He had so many problems w/water intrusion that he thought the way to go was put that beautiful log nome in a plastic bag.
Many, many "real" log homes
Many, many "real" log homes in this part of the country had siding applied to them at some time in their history. (In other areas likely stucco was more common.) And I think someone here talked about finding some logs in a house he was rehabbing in KY.
Bad Idea.
Logs homes cost more, initially because typically they are lofted, (prebuilt), at the plant, and then disassembled, and numbered for reconstruction onsite. Add to that all the special construction required to actually install electrical, plumbing, and the hvac systems, and they are easily twice as expensive per square foot.
They are energy inefficient. "Green" construction pays a lot of attention to buildings being airtight, and well insulated. A great deal of effort is expended to minimize thermal bridging at the studs. The log is just a thicker stud, that is very hard to seal anywhere near airtight, and the continual seasonal movement, means they are constantly developing new leaks.
They require near constant maintenance. The logs need to be re-oiled every three to five years. The seasonal movement, coupled with ong term movement, mean that you must recaulk any penetrations for windows, doors, etc. at least once a year. And they can settle enough to make windows and doors inoperable, and crack fixed glass panels.
You have probably figured out by now I'm not a fan of log homes.
If you really want the look, there is cedar siding available that has a log profile that could be used on a conventional frame structure. It doesn't look quite right at the corners, but you can hid that with rock columns.
Logs are a bit passe' in spite of their appeal of 'traditional living'. Like others have said ... a HUGE waste of resources as structurally, it is much like making a house out of solid 2x8 or 2x10 lumber.
I'm an energy guy. Be VERY AWARE of any sales tactics that claim any energy efficiency because of the thermal mass of wood. Any such claims should be accompanied by a tar and feather team. OK that is extreme, but I've studied this before at length. I've even had a log builder give me an article that showed a study claiming thermal mass performs as good or better than insulated construction. He took the study out of context in a big way.
So ... by all rights ... and by many energy codes, you still have to insulate your log house to energy code standards (e.g. R-19 walls).
Anyone claiming any substantial savings using mass construction is full of it, plain and simple.
Have you got the feeling that not a lot of us readers warm up to log houses? I love log construction for the same reasons you do ... but they really don't make sense in the modern world of energy and material resources. I'd encourage you to consider your options.
One thing it would be interesting to see--
There were a couple of houses here (torn down in the past 20 years) that were built from what were maybe 8x3 pieces that had been notched on the ends and stacked like logs (the 8-inch dimension vertical). I'm guessing that the pieces were T&G, kinda like car siding, but I never got to look up close. Pretty sure they were sold as kits, probably around 1910 or so. (The RR track was about a block away, so they would have arrived on flatcar.)
These were tiny houses, maybe 12x20.
Anyway, it seems to me to be a pretty good way to build a house, if combined with modern foam insulation on the inside and a few other upgrades. I know that one of these houses was in pretty good condition until the day it was torn down. (The other had been abused quite a bit, with the stubs cut off the notched ends and aluminum siding applied.)
Log Homes - thanks for your replies...
Wow,
I never thought I would've started such a firestorm about log homes. My opinion of them has certainly changed. I kind of wish there was one reply from someone who actually lived in one though. Is it possible that the latest technologies yield better log homes?
Thanks
Bessebo: For a very brief period of time I did live in a log home. It was in Michigan so I suspect your climate is very similar. The home required constant maintance - and I mean constant. There were jacks in the basement that had to be tended every month for the first few years, Assume you will have to invest in caulk - in bulk. Not usre why dust likes logs but it does. If you are looking for quiet - now I admit this may in large part be determined by design - logs are great echo chambers. Woodpeckers love them and in our state they are endangered and you cannot touch them. (Fake owls hung on the corners just tempted those little critters) Never had trouble with windows but lots of trouble with doors. Front door had to be rehung twice in one year because of 'adjustments' in wood. The home had radiant floor heating and so was very comfortable if you never went near an outside wall. Air conditioning - forget it.
I never really did the calculations but I suspect - based on just looking at the structure - you could have built 5 homes from my one.
Mike
I have quite a bit of experience with log homes.
Bessebo. I have quite a bit of experience with log homes and structures. I'm even trained in how to jack them up and repair rotting logs in primitive conditions.
We have about twenty of them in various levels of primitivity scattered about my forest. And, I spent several years helping my sister sort out all the issues that my sister and her ex husband had with a log home they constructed. She got it in the divorce and put it on the market the next day.
I liken them to an antique car: pretty to look at, and kind of neat. But, a royal and costly pain to maintain, and a constantly ongoing minor work issue. I think of them as highly antiquated structures, that made sense a century ago. But even then, they only made sense if you were somewhere you couldn't get sawn wood, and/or had lots of trees to use.
Like I said in a previous post, you can get close to the look with cedar log siding, and properly detailed stone columns. Which leaves you with a modern structure, and the aesthetic you say you want.
What you describe sounds much like the Lindel Cedar Home kits .... basically super thick 3x material w/ like a double T&G. They too were being touted as energy efficient because of their mass. They still sell these. Actually a nice house, I think (assuming you insulate them ... which detracts from the beauty of the material). They give the log house feeling w/ the high quality of modern technology.
Latest technology in logs is what you are hearing about here.
The only insulation value you get from a traditional log is from its mass; and no body much uses 16-18" diameter logs that would be required. Even then, most of the R value will come from the backer rod under the chinking.
Oh, chinking. This is part of the on-going maintenence in a log house. Where the logs meet, there's a "B" sort of shape on bothe sides. In days of load, that was jammed full of spagnum moss, straw and the like, then daubed over in clay or plaster, or later still, mortar. These days, a foam backer rod is fitted in, then a flexible material is daubed over that, and on both sides of the wall.
Now, "natural" logs will compress and settle. This will change the shape of the chinked areas. Eventually, the chinking will need replacing. Which is middling complicated if a person has covered up the interior chinking with kitchen cabinets, or tiled bathroom walls.
Chinking is also why you have to have all the modern sorts of mechanicals we take for granted (or are required by code) have to go under the interior chinking, or allow for rechinking. This makes electrical layout a big giant pain. Ditto for hvac.
Then, there is the forgotten part of log houses, the roof. Best answer for the roof winds up being SIPs. But, by the time you buy a roof, you really could have just built in SIPs for the walls, too. Especially if there is a building code on your site, and they are going to require minimum insulation codes.
Now, there is higher-tech answer. It's machined-"log" construction. These are balks of timbver that are milled to a stock dimension by the mill, 3-4" x 7-8" to 5-6" x 8-9" with a flat on the two narrowed sides, and a vaguely convex curve across the wider sides. The "flats" are milled in 2 to 5 matched tongue-and-groove combinations, often with a "dogbone" vinyl strip (or two) set into the flats. Now, this gives a fairly wind & weather tight wall--but doors and windows are an issue. This milled lumber strategy does not settle quite so much, and it needs no chinking (makes it very easy to spot, too). But, it's visually thin, and customers often do not like that. Which is why at least one mill I can think of leaves the inside flat so the interior, insulated, filled with mechanicals, wall can be built. The additional depth makes the windows "look" more traditional, too. But the "stock" house plans require a lot of redrawing for this (figure in the range of 125-150% redrafting).
Which means getting a stock SIP house plan is cheaper and often easier at remote locations (remember, you still need a basement or other foundation ready to go, either way). There are a number of companies making both an exterior and an interior "log" siding, which can get the ambiance, only without all the once-a-month, and 3-4 times a year, needs ladders and scaffolds, maintenance these houses require.
And, even with all that work, some log ends will stil lbe softer, or less-resistent to rot, and you'll be either trimming them or replacing them or covering them over. This is some tough sledding.
But, I'm biased from having sufferred in several of thse brutes as vacation houses; and worked on several more.
Log Homes vs alternatives
Our company manufactures Sip roof systems for a substantial % of handcrafted log homes. They are beautiful and thank goodness for our customers who love them and use our products. I have had 30 years experience observing the log home construction market. I have seen some magnificent structures and met many very happy log home owners. The negatives presented by the other replies are certainly warrented, but they are worth the trouble to some people.
You would need to love logs and have deep pockets. There are other alternatives and we feel we can provide the beauty of wood combined the "green" energy efficiecy that the modern home buyer is looking for with our INTEGROOVE(R) roof system. Our ISIP(R) wall panels have integrated framing members within the core of our SIPs to fasten heavy lumber siding to give the look and warmth of wood.
Many of our homes have been tested and have received the 5 STAR PLUS RATING, from ENERGY STAR (R) which is the highest rating acheivable. I built and lived in 4 of our sip homes since 1979 and can't emagine anything less. Heating and cooling bills are phenominal.
Please visit us at http://www.eaglepanelsystems.com to view our products and projects.
Good Luck
Your cheap shot marketing was uncalled for!!! You are a true sleazy sales person pulling that stunt here!! You better not have the others in the SIPs industry find out what you're doing here.
And the other guy is wrong ... you didn't do a good job of it.
Your point of view is much appreciated, the sales pitch is not ... If I see this again, I'll go directly to eaglepanel and complain. There are plenty of places on the internet to market your products. Here you can support them within simple discussions, but a sales pitch is over the top. Many of us don't much appreciate it.
Spam?
Maybe,
But at least it was done with some class.
no?
>>>But at least it was done
>>>But at least it was done with some class.
I agree. At least he said the negative comments were warrented (sic). But for a member who's been around for a grand total of two days, it's nothing but self-serving.
Ken, if you want to gain some cred, hang around for a while and join in.
Still a newbie...
I'm new here, but have been getting Fine Homebuilding for years, and been working construction for 15, mainly commercial. I've only helped build about 30 homes, not that many compared to others here, I'm sure. In 2000, I helped my brother build a stick-framed house that had 3/4 log siding. For the outside corners, they changed to full logs and were the "butt-and pass" style. The back of the log was milled flat and you would peel the sun-bleached layer of the cedar off with a draw knife before you attached the log. They are toe-nailed from the top with 8" ring-shanked spikes through the sheathing and into the studs; and then through-nailed into the bottom course with 12" spikes. Only use chinking specifically designed for logs. We used Sashco caulking and in ten years have not had to re-caulk. The finish is a two-part Sikkens, expensive but has superior UV protection. Because the outside corners are full logs, you cannot tell that it is simply log siding, a much cheaper way to go and no settling issues.
BTW...
After you mark around your house with the water level, make sure and snap some reference lines 5 or 6' up and double check where you are about every 5 courses... in this way, you can have people working on every side of the house without having to worry about the corners matching up. Keep snaping lines above you as you set up the scaffolling.
Hi Bessebo,
A large number of Log House manufacturers have on site models. If you are interested some of them will set you up for an overnight stay in one of them so you get a feel for it. I would take a cross country trip to visit some of the them for overnight stays. I would do it in the winter time so you can gauge the comfort of them in sub freezing temperatures.
I was once interested in a log house but my friend talked me out of it, and he built log houses. I still feel warm inside when I see a nice log house, but like someone else pointed out, "like a fine antique car". with all the attributes. Do a lot of reseaarch and understand the different methods of construction. Next decide if you want to spend the few nice days in summer fishing or doing maintenance on the log house.
Actually live in log home
Bessebo,
I currently live in a log home in Northern New York and my wife and I really like it. The home is a one story ranch that is about 2000 sf with a vaulted ceiling in the great room and 8 ft ceilings in the rest. I have not experienced any of the problems that were described by other posters on this site. Our house was built by Lincoln Logs in 1986, using 8 inch logs that are milled with a double T&G. There is no chinking, as the logs fit tightly together. The inside of the logs are cut flat, so it is easy to dust the walls and hang stuff on them, and it is easier to match up partition walls to the exterior walls, too. The outside of the logs are more traditional in shape. We love the look and feel of our log home.
I would say that my utility bills are not any higher than they would be in a similar size stick built home. We heat with a gas furnace and a efficient fireplace in the winter and have central air for the hot humid days in the summer. There is some drawbacks to log home living, but I think the pros outweigh the cons.
Don't be dismayed by the other opinions of posters on this site. Nothing beats a log home in the winter with a fresh snow on the roof and a crackling fire in the living room. It just feels "right."
Woody
"I would say that my utility
"I would say that my utility bills are not any higher than they would be in a similar size stick built home. We heat with a gas furnace and a efficient fireplace in the winter ..."
Not much evidence one way or the other really re: efficiency. While your gas bills may be similar, if you also use wood heat, that counts, too and reduces your gas bill. Your statement isn't very quantitative and I get the feeling a bit biased.
I've had people pushing the log houses as super efficient ignore the chord wood used to heat the house as one of the factors in judging energy efficiency. Need to ensure that we make good comparisons. They are difficult as it is to do, but generalizations don't really get us there.
Bottom line is that generally and with typical cold winter conditions, the log house will consume more energy (gas and wood) to heat the house ... assuming it is not insulated. Log houses have difficulty meeting energy code requirements for minimum insulation. Log houses is very moderate climates (e.g. Wash DC, San Francisco, etc) MAY very well be as efficient as their stick framed counterparts ... but only in those kinds of areas.
Energy comparison
I have not done a specific analysis of the energy we use to heat and cool our home. So, no it is not very quantitative. My folks live in a stick built home that is very close in size to our, and I just compare my bills and wood usage to theirs, that is all. Sorry for not being more specific. It just seemed that people were bashing log homes, and I really like mine,
No worries, man. I tend to agree w/ the appeal of log houses. Very 'homey'. The only 'bashing' I do is people that push or sell them on their 'inherent' energy efficiency. That simply isn't true. And if you run a log house side by side w/ a modern insulated house, the log house will tend to lose the energy race ... with some exceptions, but not many.
Thanks Woody...
Hi Woody,
I appreciate you chiming in on this discussion. This is what I was looking for. An actual owner of a log home. I am glad it is working out for you. Can you comment on cost in comparison to a stick home?
Thanks,
Bessebo
Bessebo,
You seem especially enthused with comments from someone who lives in one and likes it but you have also had comments from several very experienced people who have lived in them and not liked them. Me thinks you are looking for support for your position and not for true advice....which is okay as long as you recognize that you are discarding the viewpoints that don't fit your position.
It sounds as though there are ways to get a "Log Home" look without all the "Log Home" drawbacks which you might want to investigate. With the current political climate in Washington and the chances that it negatively impacts utility prices drastically, now is not the time to build something from scratch thats not as efficient as possible.
Log home
Sorry this took so long, but I don't get on the computer very often. I can't really comment on the construction costs of a new log home vs. a stick built. My wife and I bought our log home as the second owners. The first owners had it built by Lincoln Logs and lived in it for 10 years or so. Then we bought it.
I really enjoy the "feel" of living in a log home. I am in the Adirondack region of northern New York and our heating bills are not bad at all in the winter. If you are going for charm and feel in your house, dont hesitate to build with logs.
Woody