Can anyone suggest good links for green building information. Specifically, I would like to find a discussion group (like this one) that has ongoing conversations about the subject. When I did a search for “green building” in Breaktime, the postings were pretty old.
sandy
sandys, San Juan Island, WA…zone 7
Replies
Greetings sandys, Welcome to Breaktime.
This post to your question will bump the thread through the 'recent discussion' listing again.
Perhaps it will catch someones eye that can help you with advice.
Cheers
why would anybody care about green system? wood, wood
Hi Sandy,
I'm glad someone else is interested in green building... I warn you it's a complex subject filled with all sorts of opinions.
I guess the real question is how do you define green? Do you mean a building that has a minimum impact on the land? When? For example you could call a building made from stone, "green" in that it is extremely durable and likely to cause little additional damage to the enviornment, however a stone building is built with irreplacable stone and it takes a massive amount of energy (read that as oil) to extract the stone in the first place..
In addition a stone building isn't thermally very efficent and yields up a great deal of heat (read that oil) due to poor insulation.. yet insulation is made from oil.
Thus is that stone building efficent (green) or is it irresponsible? What about size? are all small buildings inheritly more green? What if you builda larger home to give your grown up children a place to live while affording them a level of privacy? are two/three /or more small houses more efficent than one larger one?
Should we require all homes to be built from local resouces to save the cost of shipping materials around the country or should we allow and accept nonlocal products if they are more durable and suitable?
I know that those of us who want to be building as sustainably as possible, could get mired in the debate on which green is greenist. In trying to figure out which long-standing or newly emerging products and practices are sustainable, I agree that it is important to think about the product materials, the fossil fuels consumed getting them to me, etc. However, from my vantagepoint, (partner in a small but growing construction company,) I think it is important to just jump in and start experimenting with and integrating green practices.
Now, in the spirit of full disclosure, so that you will understand who you are communicating with, let me say that my significant other is the guy with the years of building experience. I am a new partner in this operation. One of my jobs is to research and propose green building stratagies for our biz. This being so, I am not going to pretend that I always fully understand the building talk I am reading in this group, but I am learning and am very interested in what you, more experienced green builders have to say.
For starters, I am curious about how various products are working for builders out there in real world. What's up with BioBased soybean-oil-based polyurethane foam insulation? Has anyone used Richlite countertops (they claim to be made out of paperp from certified managed forests, are heat and stain resistant, and are supposedly extremely strong....
And for those of you in Seattle/Bellingham, WA area, where are the great salvage companies? Where can one reliably find good quality certified lumber?
These are just a few of my questions. I have millions more. I am looking forward to hearing what others have to say about a variety of green building subjects. Even the "what is greener" debate is ok with me.
sandy from San Juan Island
"Second Use Building Materials" in Seattle is a great recycled building materials resource - tons of stuff. They used to have a fairly up to date website. They used to have a place in Olympia, too, but that's now a Habitat for Humanity fundraising business. Same recycled stuff though - lots of fun to paw through.
There is also a place named "The Enviromental Building Center" in Seattle we've visited. Small showroom, but plenty of good info and contacts to be made there.
Last year the National Green Building Show was in Seattle. Dave Crosby attended. He used to be an editor at JLC and is a semi regular here at Breaktime. You might try e mailing him asking about that conference. Good guy.
There is a pretty active green building community up in King County. Wheatboard cabinet builders and such. I think Continental Hardwoods in Kent even stocks wheatboard to lay veneers on...might even have some standard veneers like Red Oak on wheatboard cores by now. I get a postcard every once in a while from...I THINK the name is "Velocopede"...or something like that...it is a green architectural firm with a nice website. I'm almost positive they are in Seattle. You might Google them.
muchas gracias!
Try the mag natural home, it is a little foo foo but has some good ideas and products in it. Also try the book, Alternative house building. I have built four straw bale homes, two straw clay and countless log. The greenist home was definatly the straw bale homes. But they are not cheaper or labor savers. Log homes use less material and if done right are energy efficient.
Try getting in touch with Chris Hammer at [email protected].
S/he sends me a monthly news email called "Greenclips" made up of newsworthy notes regarding the green building world. I'd forward one on for you to look at, but they ask us not to so they can keep track of how many people are reading their dispatches.
It's free, and usually interesting, if a little dry.
There is a publication from (I think) New Hampshire named "Green Building News" you might look into. The editor writes ocassionally for FHB...can't remember his name right now but if you e mail any of the FHB editors they could certainly tell you and probably point you in his direction.
"Discussion boards like this one"? Haven't found one yet, but I'd sure love to hear about it if you do. Good luck. "It ain't easy bein' green".
Jim:
I have been subscribing to GreenClips for a couple of years now. I think it is a good resource (and I should start sending them a little money,) despite the fact that it is geared more to architects and commercial builders and designers. I'll search around a bit for the NH publication you mentioned, and if I do find other discussion groups or resources, I will report back here.
Cheers, Sandy from San Juan Island
Kev,
I'm astonished that you would consider a log home "green" History has shown us that log homes do not last as long as it takes the log to grow in anything but the driest most arrid place. Thus by definition a log home cannot be considered green.
The problem with log homes is moisture. Both interior and exterior moisture. Log homes built as little as a decade ago are showing signs of interior log decay (particularly when it's a "true" log home) Hometime, the TV program spoke about it just prior to building their newest log home. They went back and visited an earlier log home that had decay visable in the ends of some of the logs.. They felt that the ends hadn't been well sealed (in spite of "paint" clearly being visable)
Finally with the nature of log homes prevent them from being energy efficent.. the R value of wood is really low, less than 1 per inch depending on wood type. and remember that is measure not at the widest portion of the log but rather the narrowist portion. so if at the joint line there is only an inch or so of contact or if the chinking is only an inch or two wide then at that part you have a very low R value..
Rammed earth and hay bale are certainly examples of "green construction" as is adobe and homes made from recycled materials.. Timberframed can be depending on factors as can most stone buildings..
Most new log homes and the ones that I mill have a moisture content below sixteen %. Long eves and foundations that are raised also prevent water damage. True the average R-value in a log home is 1" per foot but the conduction that occurs during heating allows the home radiate heat. Sustainable logging practices are effect to promoting healthy forest. Spline eliminates chinking and end sealer prevents end rot. The average stick built home consumes over three acres of wood. then vapor barrier dry wall etc,etc.
Agreed straw, not hay, are green homes but can have a far worse problem with moister than log.
As you said there are many form of green building as long as people try to incorporate some aspect of green technology we will be better off.
Kev,
I hope you don't feel this disagreement is any sort of personal attack.. I like your post and it's fun discussing alternative building methods.
My comment about moisture has little to do with the original moisture content.. instead I refer to the moisture that is created in just living. plants, cooking, baths, preparation etc.. that moisture in the form of vapor travels thru the log and meets the interior freeze point.. closer the interior the colder it get's and closer to the exterior the warmer it gets in the spring thawing snow adds to the moisture followed by spring rains etc. inside that nice warm log decay has the perfect site to take ahold and start some real rot..
If log home had a good interior vapor barrier it wouldn't happen but as we all know paint (stain ) etc. is not a good vapor barrier.
I do fully agree that sustainable harvest techniques have increased the yield of wood from our forests, at some cost to diversity. Most forests are no longer the diverse Eco systems they once were and monocultural is becoming the norm.. (please don't think that is any suggestion that we should stop harvesting our forests, I do believe that most trees have a finite life span and they should be harvested when mature.. )
Don't worry I have big shoulders and enjoy the discussionas well. Here in the north east I am amazed at the hand hewn log homes that have lasted for a 100 pluss years. Moisture is certainly present but not a dire issue. I have not come across rot between courses do to covection or conduction. Have you? Venting your kitchen, bath, etc needs to be considerd seriously. My green consideration comes from the standpoint Sandy touched on, the amount of resource and material consumption from harvest to finished product.
I have noticed "Real wood" products are being used less and wood bi-products used more. These products have signifcant merrit to green building. For exapmle synthetic exteior trim such as Azek would be a good sell to Sandies custumers because of her climate. Use of Advatech for subfloors and roof sheeting. Here is a wood bi- product that dose not off gas and has a 50 year warranty. That's Green!
I recently ran across Natural Home Magazine, and that I agree with you about its "shelter mag" look, I was interested enought to think about subscribing--if nothing more to have one more source of product information and to understand where some new-to-green-building homeowners may be getting their first info on the subject. Anyway, from their website, they indicated that they are offering free subscribtions to people in the "shelter" business. I signed up, but haven't heard back from them yet. I really liked the free part, so hope they come through.
I will look for the other book you mentioned. Thanks for responding.
sandy from San Juan Island
Hi Sandy,
If you're interested in green building within the confines of conventional construction I can't help you. If, however, you're interested in free thinking beyond conventional construction there are lots of choices. How green is green?
[email protected] (Earthfriendly and Self-Sufficient Architecture) and will get you subscribed to one. Unfortunately the web site was relocated. The new site doesn't appear to have the extensive archives of past posts. Lootvik's the moderator. Sometimes the list goes idle for awhile.
[email protected] is another. The concrete police are very present here. Strawbale distinctly favored with earth construction a distant second. More construction related than ESSA. Recently went through a lengthy discussion of impermanent housing. I referred to it as "disposable" and got booed. LOL
Neither of these lists is much like BT but are concerned with green building and alternative architecture. On ESSA we've lately been discussing air quality, humidity control, and air exchangers. Both lists have historically had a strong earthship bias. Off-grid generally considered the ideal.
Beyond these are the particular interest groups: straw bale, cord wood, earth bags, rammed earth, earthships, pretty much everything. Rather than green building, you need to search for specific construction style. BTW, there isn't one for passive annual heat storage.
Happy hunting.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Thank you for the links. I'll visit any site at least once in my search for the truth!
sandy, San Juan Island
Environmental Design and Construction
http://WWW.EDCmag.com
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Thanks, Cal.
Got an extra starter? Maybe a middle reliever?
Jim, we have a plethora of potential.
I remember where that got us in April and May of last yr.
We're looking for a reputable starter.............Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Hey sandys: Just saw an ad in the back of FH.
http://www.positive-energy.com
They have a catalog called 'The green builders catalog'
Wait theres more
http://www.athenasmi.ca
http://www.corrim.org
http://www.fsc.org
http://www.cwc.ca
Edited 1/16/2005 6:23 pm ET by reinvent
Edited 1/16/2005 10:35 pm ET by reinvent
US Green build.