Hello to all. This spring I am working on clearing about 1/2 acer of woods to build my house. Trying to save a buck or two I am doing this myself. I am having problems with keeping the chain on my saw tight. It seem like I am CONSTANTLY stopping and tightening it. I Understand that it will expand with use but I think it is a little excessive. Any suggestions?
Also any tips on sharping it? I purchased a hand sharpener to use in the woods. I find once I sharpen the chain it dulls rather quickly, a lot faster than a new one. Any comments / suggestions? (And no I rather not hire someone to do the job…LOL)
Andy
Replies
Which saw/chain?
Look at your product and a new chain. What's the difference? Are you getting the shavings your manual suggests?
If it's dulling quickly you likely have filed the wrong angle. My filed chains cut better than what leaves the factory (I prefer a more aggressive chain). Any chance you could find someone to teach you? I've had several friends over to see what I'm doing. Not that they quite get the hang of it quickly, that takes practice.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
StogMan
I just tried one of those car battery powered sharpeners, and was really impressed with the way it worked. I've always used files in the past.
VaTom,
What is "a more aggressive chain? Is 25* more or less aggressive than 35*?
SamT
What is "a more aggressive chain? Is 25* more or less aggressive than 35*?
I'm changing the other angle. IIRC, my Stihl book recommends 10°. I file a little steeper. Obviously the rakers have a little to do with it too. Tried what you're talking about and wasn't happy. Don't remember what didn't seem right, but it was also before I got really comfortable filing. Might be time to give that a try again. Maybe one of the really accomplished guys here at BT will decide to weigh in.
One of the guys I tried to help ended up buying a bench grinder. Now he's complaining that it takes off too much steel. Haven't been over there yet to see if it's adjusted correctly. Far as I can tell there isn't a good alternative to: file, take a cut to see how you did, repeat.
It also occurred to me that I have no idea what was considered excessive retightening. I stop every tank and touch-up, tighten if necessary. One tank will carry me through felling and bucking a good-sized tree. A little maintenance now and again is easier than a whole lot later. Easier on both me and the saw. PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
excessive retightening ??
From what I've been told a chain should be tight enough that by pulling on the chain at the middle of the bar the guide teeth will not disengage the groove in the bar. But loose enough that the chain will pull away from the bar.
There are no stupid questions. Just lots of inquisitive idiots!!!
Edit to say I've got to change my tag.
Edited 3/30/2004 8:27 am ET by jet
From what I've been told a chain should be tight enough that by pulling on the chain at the middle of the bar the guide teeth will not disengage the groove in the bar. But loose enough that the chain will pull away from the bar.
That's what I do with my Stihl. I believe some mfgs suggest looser. But I was responding to the following, from the original post:
It seem like I am CONSTANTLY stopping and tightening it. I Understand that it will expand with use but I think it is a little excessive.
Therefore my "excessive retightening". Not over-tightening. Which might be the problem, but I'd not expect it.
I've also seen guys who expected to cut all day without doing any maintenance, other than gas and oil. My method works better for me.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Reading these post caused me to remember something that others have left out if it is at all applicable.
I don't use a saw 'alot' but I used to service them in another life.
We used to clamp the bar good in a large vise and pull up on the powerhead while adjusting the bar and tightening the clamp nuts. That way it imitates the pressure on the bar as in real use. If there is (usually) a significant amount of up/down movement in the bar when the clamp nuts are loose, you need to be sure that the bar is not creeping up in actual use because of it position when tightened.
Hope that makes sense. Be careful and good luck.
Eric
Id bet u got some cheap saw chain.Good oregon chain or similiar wont "streach" as bad. Make sure u tug the bar out all the way before u retighten the set screw or cover bolts and check the sprocket.
Ya, a long time ago, someone who I can't remember now, showed me how to hold up the tip of the bar while I tightend the bolts. Then, when you pull up on the chain in the middle of the bar, if the the chain guides almost come out of the bar groove you've got it. ALWAYS REMEMBER: Life is not measured by the number of breaths
we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. George Carlin
I gotta wonder if you're getting oil to your chain. Or maybe you're using cheap chain oil that's too thin.
According to a recent survey, men say the first thing they notice about a woman is their eyes. And women say the first thing they notice about men is they're a bunch of liars.
For the chain coming loose? My Husky comes loose if I end up forcing the chain after it becomes caught due to my stupidness in cutting the log the wrong way.
For the chain becoming dull? I had the chance to work with a professional for one summer clearing some 85 acres for a golf course. He would head out everyday with his "kit" besides the obvious saw, he would take a file, wrench,and a spare spark plug. He would clean and sharpen his blade everytime he would take a break. Coffee, lunch, afternoon break (if taken) and the end of the day he would tear down and clean and tune the saw. So we are talking about 3 to 4 times a day. The sharpening would be just a couple of strokes on each tooth. all of about 5 minutes work. And never let your blade touch the dirt. Just a touch will dull the blade in no time.
There are no stupid questions. Just lots of inquisitive idiots!!!
First off, be sure enough oil is getting to the chain.
Second, make sure the adjustment screw isn't rattling loose.
"First off, be sure enough oil is getting to the chain." -Dan
Right. And to be explicit: Point the bar at a fresh cut piece of wood. Rev it briefly and you should see oil thrown off the nose onto the wood. If not (or if you are not going through a half tank of oil per tank of gas), disassemble and clean the sawdust and gunk out of the oil passages.
Another sign of inadequate oiling is when wet wood cuts a lot better than dry wood. (realizing that green is always easier). But the water is a bit of lubrication that helps when there is no oil.
And, as someone else eluded to, look for shavings - longer is better. Not sawdust. You want to be cutting wood, not grinding it.David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
"It seem like I am CONSTANTLY stopping and tightening it. I Understand that it will expand with use but I think it is a little excessive."
Stog,
Are you adjusting the tensioning screw? or just loosening the lockdown bolts/nuts and tugging on the bar?
Jon
As for sharpening in the field, I recently started using a Dremel tool attachment specifically for saw chains. It came with three different diameter burrs and a guide. I keep a power inverter in my truck, so the 110 v Dremel tool works better for me than a 12 v version - plus I already had the Dremel tool and, up to now, I haven't found a real good use for it.
You can touch up a saw chain in just a few minutes. Makes all the difference in the world. As has been mentioned, I hit it two or three times a day when I'd doing tough work.
Available at the box stores. Only about $12 as I remember.
Greg.
If your using a stihl saw go back to your dealer and buy a yellow chain. The green safety chains are worthless. I cut and split 7 or 8 cords of firewood every year and have not noticed any difference in kickback. The big difference is I can cut all this wood with just one chain. While your at the dealer ask them to show you how to adjust the chain and how to sharpen it . It will be time well spent .
chello MR STOGMAN,
always use the european brands, (johnsored), and dont use the small saws. 24" or better. make sure you use the right size file for your chain and what are you cutting? hard wood with soft wood? always keep your chain tight. lots of questions
Thanks to all for all of the good advice! To clear up some things, it is a Cratsman 16" saw with a craftsman chain. Yes I have been unscrewing the nut then adjusting the proper screw. The chain is getting enough oil (I have noticed the spray off of the bar). I'm pretty sure I'm am using the proper file (5/32),that is what the cahin says, and proper angle. The round file fits like a glove in the little grove of the tooth.
Just after sharening the saw works great, (hot knife through butter) with the large flakes of wood (not saw dust). Because of this I think I am sharpening correctly.
The type of wood I have been cutting, all kinds hard and soft mostly soft.
I do realize it will eventually dull but within 1 hour of cuttiing? Mostly Brush the other day.
Thanks again for all of the great advice . Any more ideas or tips send them my way!!
Stog
"I do realize it will eventually dull but within 1 hour of cuttiing?"
Yeah, if you're working hard, it could be. I don't get that much but I'm cutting dead wood, sometimes down and in a windy beach environment. And the volcanos go off about evey 10 years and spread a fine ash around.
Seemed so easy cutting down a large pine at my father's. Worked all day, no sharpening, one tank of gas. Green, standing, no dust, beach sand, or volcanic ash.David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
Can't agree with you. I really like my Echo 12" pruning saw. Works really well for anything up to about 8" and I sometimes will baby it through thicker stuff to avoid firing up my bigger Stihl Saw Boss.
On sharpening - if you are just filing the "hole" in the tooth, then you aren't really sharpening the cutting edge. The top of the round file needs to be slightly above the top of the tooth to get the right edge. Don't remember exactly how much. I use one of the metal guides that has the angles marked on it and just touching up the chain a couple of times a day seems to keep me cutting chips in pine pretty well. I bought a more elaborate hand sharpening job that has a slide mechanism that supposedly holds the file at just the right height and angle, but it seemed to get in the way more than it helped so I haven't used after the first time I tried it.
You are using bar oil and not motor oil? they are not the same. I don't believe in hand sharpening chains myself, I have 6-8 chains that I rotate when they get dull. I also used to own a Stihl dealership so I would just sharpen my chains at work. Look at you chains they should have some oil on them where they contact the bar. If they are dry there is your problem. Is your bar slipping or is your chain stretching? Is the peg on your adjuster damaged. I know that a lot of guys don't like the green Stihl chains, but if your a novice with a saw you need all of the safety you can get. It's a lot easier to reattach a couple of fingers after a runing with a miter saw than a leg that meets a chain saw. Hey I also am curious, remove the bar and run the saw to see if the oiler is working, if it is check the bar to see if the hole in the bar that the oil flows thru is plugged. Personally I made a lot of money off of guys that thought that they could sharpen their own chains. When a saw has a perfectly sharpened chain on it you can cut circles around guys with larger saws and dull or poorly sharpened chains. You are also checking your depth gauges when you sharpen?
Well, I am guilty of 2 things. Ran out of bar oil, only had motor oil so I subsituted. Bad idea huh?
Next how do I check the depth gages? Are those the links infront of the actual cutting link?
If your bar is worn out the chain will not stay tight.
Brand new Bar. Bent the other one a few weeks ago!!
This is getting good.....Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming.... WOW!!! What a Ride!
Ok, I updated my profile just figured out how to do it. (I'm still pretty new at computer stuff)
Any how I am just South of Ann Arbor, Mich. We are clearing mostly brush with many small trees 1-3" in diameter 10' tall, and then some larger one here and there.
I am hoping when I get done I can rip out the stumps with a farm tractor w/ a front end loader. (Talked my wife into letting me buy it last fall to help with the clearing).
I have one of those sharpeners that attach to the bar and a slide that file fits into so it always has the "proper" cut.
As soon as u said Craftmans i cringed.Doesnt that saw just have one bar bolt with the tensioning screw built in it or something ?Getting ur saw u throw out macroni chips as we call them takes a sharp chain and sharpening them just simply comes from expierence..so get it shop sharpened ull just buy more chain as the grind the hill out of them.But a sharp chain will relieve 90% of the problem.Doesnt heat up,wont stretch,u wont be wearing out bar sprocket or urself.
Hill! 3" trees.Get a sharp dbl bit axe.Whole lot quieter and eco.
1.Buy some Oregon chain. Crapsman is just that. Crap.
2. Get some bar oil--it should be warming up in your area about now, so maybe you can run summer oil (heavier) if you're cutting in the warm part of the day. If it won't flow, thin it down with some winter oil to make a kind of 'spring' mix....
3. When properly tensioned, a chain should hang '3 tits free' in the middle of the bar when the chain is at its loosest point. Chainsaw sprockets aren't perfectly round, so as they turn the chain alternately gets tighter and looser. This is why you have to check it at the loose point.
4. While retightening the bar nuts after having adjusted the chain, push the nose of the bar down hard against the tailgate of the truck (or whatever surface--not dirt!--you're working on). This forces the bar up against the stops, so it won't drift up while you're cutting and make the chain bind up. Tighten the bar nuts very firmly. You should need a glove to avoid discomfort to your hand. That's how tight.
5. Don't let the saw touch the dirt. Even a second of that and you're in for a complete chain re-sharpening.
Good luck.
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
Dropped this cottonwood (42" dia) this afternoon. Still had some ash from 1980 St Helens eruption in the bark crevices under the moss. The felling and 3 cuts thru and the chain needed resharpend - 1 tank of gas. Watch your 'chips and snivells' coming out the saw, if they are not 1-2 " long (depending on the wood) or if your bar drifts to the side on a big cut, you need to sharpen and sharpen correctely.
No volcanos around here; I cleared and cut this pile for a septic field installation last year; one chain, one sharpening (at the end). Big old Jonsered 72E with a 16" bar.
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
I am hoping when I get done I can rip out the stumps with a farm tractor w/ a front end loader. (Talked my wife into letting me buy it last fall to help with the clearing).
Don't know your tractor size, but you'd probably do better using the 3 pt hitch. Farm tractors that had a loader added don't get the front pivot beefed up for serious loader work. I've torn the front end off my compact and seen the same thing happen to huge JDs.
Depends on how well rooted your trees are, but you really don't want to dig much with a toothless loader. If you left enough trunk to wrap a chain around, the 3 pt hitch will do better to pick the root ball out of the ground. Disturbs the soil less and is much easier on the tractor. If that won't do it, and digging's required, you'd do better with a different machine.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
I agree that the 3 point will do a better job of pulling the stumps.
But I would caution anyone trying to be careful about how they pull on the stump.
If you can't lift the stump straight up, it's tempting to stick the tractor in gear and try to pull the stump out. With the 3 point hitch pulling up and the tractor in a forward gear, it's a good way to flip the thing over backwards and kill yourself.
If I'm not mistaken, tractor rollovers are the biggest killer of farmers. Nothing to be taken lightly.Two cows were standing in a field. One cow said, "Moo". The other cow said, "Hey . . . I was going to say that."
If you can't lift the stump straight up, it's tempting to stick the tractor in gear and try to pull the stump out. With the 3 point hitch pulling up and the tractor in a forward gear, it's a good way to flip the thing over backwards and kill yourself.
If I'm not mistaken, tractor rollovers are the biggest killer of farmers. Nothing to be taken lightly.
Absolutely, should have mentioned it. Thank you. New tractor owner, let's keep him around.
With a front bucket, a back flip is less likely. Put some dirt in it and it's all but impossible. If the tractor has the weight of a front drive axle, even better.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
I agree pulling stumps with a tractor can be very dangerous, the tractor can and will flip up and over in less than a second before you can react, if your tractor has a ROP(roll bar)you should wear the seat belt,without I belive they recomend you dont wear the seat belt.
If you must pull the stump it would be safer to hook your chain to the front of the tractor and pull in reverse gear.Also need to keep people and pets away and out of the line of the chain or cable should it break or come loose.
Kansas State University(Ag. College) has some great publications on tractor safety,and they might be available on line.I'll bet most states Ag.college's have a booklet and new or old tractor owners should check them out
http://www.tractorconnection.com/Tractor%20Safety.html I did find this Iam sure thers lots more..my two cents thanks
When I was a teen we had a IH diesel tractor with a heavy duty front-end loader. The old farm my parents bought had a lot of old stumps and abandoned fence rows, and I'd set the bucket down about 6" off the ground and drive around knocking down posts and stumps. Usually they snapped with no resistance, occasionally I'd have to back up and take a second whack.
However, there was one big stump (I'm guessing it was an Osage orange, based on the other trees near it) in a pasture that resisted all efforts. I first tried just pushing it over, with no luck, then backed up and hit it pretty hard several times -- still no luck. Finally, I backed up about 100 feet, got going about 15mph, and hit it. I ended up on the hood, with the tires spinning in the mud, and the stump still there. It was eventually torn out with a bulldozer when the land was developed.
That IH diesel was a real nice tractor, other than it's tendency to burn out glow plugs. Unfortunately, a neighbor borrowed it and got rear-ended while foolishly driving it on the road at night. (Of course, no tractor of that vintage had working taillights.) He was OK but the tractor was totalled.
That IH diesel was a real nice tractor,
I stand corrected. Never seen a farm tractor stand up to that kind of abuse. Nor would I recommend it. Let me guess... You probably wouldn't try it again would you? <G>
It wasn't the loaders, but the tractors that I've seen fail. Mine's now re-engineered to be considerably stronger than when it left the Japanese factory. And I wised up and got something yellow to move trees with. Mine say Cat on the back. Designed to dig- and push.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Almost forgot: To pop little trees out, I do what I was recommending for the 3 pt hitch, wrap a chain around and lift, only I use my Cat bucket (no 3 pt hitch). Works great.
Edited 4/3/2004 2:26 pm ET by VaTom
"I first tried just pushing it over, with no luck, then backed up and hit it pretty hard several times -- still no luck. Finally, I backed up about 100 feet, got going about 15mph, and hit it."
My Brother and I did that once with some trees and a rear mounted blade. We had just gotten a bigger tractor and were tryng it out. (While Dad was at work)
We backed up and hit one tree that was just a wee bit too big. The pins that hook the blade up to the 3 point hitch snapped off.
Initially we thought our goose was cooked. Dad would freak if he knew what we had done. We ended up running into town and buying some new pins at a farm equipment dealer. Went back home and stuck those shiny new pins in that rusty old blade. We thought for sure Dad would notice.
But he never did. We lucked out that time...Yesterday Senator John Kerry changed his mind and now supports the ban on gay marriages. I'm telling you this guy has more positions than Paris Hilton. [David Letterman]
I have a 1966 Massey Ferfuson MF 165 (diesel) its pretty beefy! I figure it will be trial and error when it comes time to clean up the sumps! Because many of the stumps are small and there was a great deal of brush on the land, I also though about trying to use the back blade to pull them out. We will see.
I spent a large part of my childhood on tractors just like that. An MF56 diesel is fairly rare, and a great tractor.
If your blade is heavy enough, and if you can tilt it, you can "prune" a lot of the roots before you try to pull them out. Angle the blade as far as you can, and drop the leading edge of the blade so one corner digs in. Then drive alongside the stump and drop the blade.
If the blade cuts deep enough you should just have one end in the ground. It will tear up a lot of the roots that are near the surface. Do that about 3 or 4 times on different sides, and it will soften up the stump so it pulls easier.
If your blade doesn't have a tilt adjustment, you can do more or less the same thing. Pull the right edge of the blade forwards so it's at rougly 45°. Then shorten up the top link as far as you can. Also adjust the right lift arm linkage as far out as it will go. That should make the right end of the blade dig in enough to do some "pruning".
.
Rather than pulling the stumps, try this: Turn the blade 180°, so the cutting edge faces AWAY from the tractor. Back up to the stump and put the blade against it. Then back up while lifting the blade up. (Use low range, and low multi-power, if you have it) This helps pull up on the stump while adding weight to the rear wheels of the tractor. And there's no risk of turning it over.
Keep in mind that this is hard on a blade though. If you have a cheap, lightweight one you'll probably bend it.
If you try to pull out the stumps keep the blade on the tractor. That way you don't risk flipping it over backwards.How many Dull Men does it take to change a light bulb?......One
Thanks for the advice! As soon as I get my tractor back ( a friend has it, he is fixing the steering and a few other minor things), I will try it out.
most saws (pro models not elcheapo models) usually require you fill your lube oil when you refill your gas. If youre not doing this you need to clean out your oil spigots.
Brake cleaner is non flammable and cleans your drive sprocket and oilers well.
If youre forcing your saw to do any of the work your working it too hard or its dull, both will cause heat buildup and loosen your chain. Your waste should be shavings not dust.
If you cant get the knack of sharpening buy about 3-4 chains and take them to be sharpened.
Talk to a proshop not the lame big box stores about what chain best suits the cutting you need.
Be sure to clean your air filter daily and sometimes more.
Any suggestions on a mid range saw. I need a new one and have been looking at the Stihl 'Farm Boss' MS290 18" 57cc $270.00. Stihl has a good name and product...
Bent
Yeah, Stihl or Husky (Husqvarna). Something orange. From Sweden. Knowing how to sharpen a chain well is much more important than horsepower. Knowing how to handle it makes up for blade length the few times you think you need a longer blade.
Chain size and bar thickness would ideally be matched to your most common cutting. I prefer mid-range saw with a full 3/8" chain and bar (Husky 350/351/353 - equates to the Stihl MS290) for 16-20" trees.
The the next smaller saw (Husky 141) is nicer for trail work, limbing and <12" stuff. The blade and kerf aren't quite thick enough for bigger logs.
Which dealer is closer to you? Has better hours? A real dealer, not a big box.
Nothing green or red.David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
Buy it...that's a good deal.