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Well you got some good responses Gaby. I like the one by KCoyner about the trades being full contact. Do you want to put us on the field and say no tackle, this is touch football? Not me, and I have been guilty of a heavy hand on a couple occasions where I felt a little bad about it later and usually made amends but so it goes…
Besides, it’s the personalities that make this site the best. You can get all the good information you want. Soak it up and let ’em fly, my opinion.
MD
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Or maybe this site should be called Breakwind?
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Yes sir.From Canada!...(refered to as Upper USA by some folk down south..Heh..Heh.)
From Montreal actually(in Province of Quebec).
How about you?
BTW, at last check I saw 42 messages for this post.Do I get some kind of medal or award for this?
*Sorry, Gaby. You've a ways to go. I can't guarantee it, but I think the record is 267 messages in the "First Annual 1999 Fall Fine Homebuilder's Breaktime Poster's Get Together Fest" thread, which can be found here: Lisa ""First Annual 1999 Fall Fine Homebuilder's Breaktime Poster's Get Together Fest"" 10/26/99 9:14amThere have been several threads with over one hundred messages.Rich Beckman
*joe fusco...they broke the mould!
*Good luck with your project Gaby. You have discovered a difference between the contractors that know and the contractors who think they do. Those that know are much more willing to look at and accept new ideas. Logic and practicality rule the building trades. If one becomes upset when questioned...it implies insecurity in one's ability to rationally reason.It takes a brilliant person to disseminate logical truth from heresay.Good luck on your quest.L
*Gaby, I think some of the "attitude" is because often there is more than one way of doing things, and most of all, these people have a passion for what they do ..... a trait homebuilding could use more of. Latex caulk to fill the cracks and a cathedral ceiling isn't "Fine HomeBuilding". Sure, some of the discussions get pretty heated, but I usually end up learning something new.
*Lawrence,There are those who lead and those who follow.
*Gawd. . . can you imagine what he would have thought if he'd been around when Gabe 'n Fred were crapping on one another, or Joe 'n Fred?Check into the tavern Gaby, it's where the action is. .. the rest of this board has gotten disgustingly sedate. Cripes even Jeff 'n Joe are hugging now!!zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
*I was here patrick....You have a good memory...but it's short!
*ahh LawrenceDon't be so enigmatic, say what yer hintin at already. . . but on the topic of short memory thingsi aregetting awfully repetitive around here. . . think I'll take this to a new thread-pm
*Gaby,What you fail to understand, there is only one thing that two homebuilders can agree on. And, that is what the third homebuilder is doing wrong.This goes for homebuilders and pretty much any other trade.Don't let it get to you. Just keep moving on.Martin
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I've been login on to this site looking for advice and information from the "experts" in the field.What I have found is a lot of bickering between people about who's right and who's wrong.There are some people that seem to take offence when their way of thinking is challenged or seems to be challenged.
My response to this childish behavior is
LOSE THE ATTITUDE AND GET A LIFE!!!
I have sympathy for the poor guy who comes to this site looking for help and all he ends up with is a bunch of guys arguing about who does what better, who is wrong, who doesn't know anything, etc.Come on people, we're building house here not aircrafts(that should get a few people riled up).
My point is stop the complaining, bitching, putting others down, and try listening to the people who are here looking for help.The don't really give a rats ass about who knows more about this or that.They need advice, opinions, or solutions to their problems.If you feel that someone is giving wrong information, don't start an arguement with them that goes nowhere.Tell the person who is looking for the information to get as many opinions as he or she can before making a decision, because everyone has their own way of doing things and some may or may not be right.
Get off the high horses and don't lose sight of why you guys are here!
I think this is a great site and there is a great deal of valuable information and experience to be shared.To the guys who are doing a good job..Hats off and keep up the good work.And to the guys who...well...Come on man!Loosen up!
Eagerly awaiting replies!
Gaby
*There are many construction forums on the internet. Each one seems to have developed its own personality. Some are chatty, others offer only facts, some are sophistocated, some as crude as a real world work site discussion can be. There is something in the internet for everyone.I think that most on this forum are very good about answering the questions of the DIYs. On other professional forums, DIY questions are not allowed. If a neighbor comes on to my work site and starts asking for advice on how to fix his own house, I will be polite but I really don't want to spend my time training amateurs. Although I believe that being polite is the best policy, I also think that in the real world (and in this cyber one), people can be jerks and we all need to be strong enough to handle it.life is tough, wear a helmet.
*Hi Ryan,I understand what you mean.It's just that I can't figure some guys out.It doesn't bother me, really.I just think about the new people looking for answers and getting attitude.Gaby
*Thats always the problem anywhere you go... of course everthing has it's price, you have to pay the fiddler somehow.
*Actually, your post has the most attitude that I have seen in a while. Six months ago, I would have agreed with you - there were some real donneybrooks going on. However, in the last couple of months things seem to have gotten rather sedate and chummy. Either that or I have grown inured to it all. (Or have I missed something recently???)
*Gaby,Homebuilding is a full contact, sort of job.Many of us take a great deal of pride in what we do, so it's only natural that we have strong opinions about how things should be done. Homebuilding is a continuing learning experence for me however. Each site presents different problems which means the use of different materials, different applications of those materials, different specs, and new materials that we haven't used before. Some homebuilders carry their opinions with a wrestlers mentality. They may not have any pride in what they do. They may be trying to push the one thing they know something about a little bit to hard in order to make themselves feel a little more worldly or educated. And like many other people in the world, just plain like to argue. I find most regulars on this site are knowledgable and helpful. I have been in the construction trades for some 25 yrs, but I have learned many valueable things here. I try to learn something new about homebuilding every day. I hope my posts are helpful and hope you will continue to visit here.
*Gaby - You got any kids? When one does something you don't like, do you get mad at all of them? Or do you talk to the one in private? If you have a problem with a particular poster(s), you might have more luck dealing with them privately. As I'm sure you know, you can e mail anyone on the board by clicking on their blue name. Most of us try to keep things civil here, and I'd appreciate it if you would too. Thanks - jb
*Instead of blanket condemnation, you may want to get specific and address by name those that offend you. This is a public forum and as such, you'll find a diverse group of nail-pounders, some Type A, some Type B. I'll bet you a beer, BTW, that those you are addressing have no clue you're pointing your mouse at them. You may want to go off the forum and express your concerns to them privately by email. I'll be waiting for my message...Enjoy your time here, Gaby...don't let them run you off.
*You're right Casey.It does sound like attitude.I was just surprised that this sort of thing happens between professionals(I suppose it's easier to say something to someone when you're not face to face).My reason for the post was because some of this "attitude" was directed at me and I can't figure out why(it was only a bit of "attitude").I can't give any opinions in this forum because I don't have any experience in the construction field, therefore I can't and will not challenge anyone's opinion.Due to this I fail to see how "attitude" can be directed towards me.In any case, it really doesn't bother me and your right, it is a friendly site.Like I said..hats off to the guys doing a good job.Gaby
*"I'll be waiting for my message.."?...I like your sense of humor Mongo, but It's not you.I wasn't offended.I was surprised.I'm new to this and I wasn't sure if namimg names is good etiquette.
*Gaby,Just some thoughts...Please remember that often, a post can be read as offensive, even though the writer had no such intent. I am sure some, maybe all, of the posts you are thinking of did contain a large helping of attitude, but I have seen people react negatively to posts that I found to be civil. A lot gets lost when there is no tone of voice, no gestures, no facial expressions, and no body language. Some who post here may be expert at their trade, but not so competent in the written language (a point Joe Fusco made awhile back). Sometimes you feel put off, when the "attitude" you perceive is the writers way of reaching out to you.Also, Mongo, as always, said it well "Enjoy your time here, Gaby...don't let them run you off."Rich Beckman
*No kids, Jim.good advice.You're ok.what happened to "I'm not from texas"?
*RickI understand what you mean about the written language.This was the situation in my case.However it was not offensive.It had a little bit of "know it all" attitude.What I did find nasty was other posts that were not directed at me.Those words could not have been mistaken for anything else.I feel bad for the reciever of those words.Thanks for your concern.Gaby
*I've been what you might call a regular, I post here and there, check on other posts, and sometimes offer up my own topics. My experience here is not unlike the real world, some days people are having a hard time and their posts reflect that. Other times that very same individual surprises me with their humor, advice, or candor. Bottom line is that all people have their off days and you can't take it that seriously. For the most part I think this is a great forum and the collective experience is really impressive, put up with the crap (sometimes) and you'll be rewarded. Watch out for jb though, he has several alter egos.
*Hi billI've only been on the net a short time and I'm in the process of learn that.I'm beginning to know what you mean.Gaby
*"...if you can't beat 'em..."
*To be sure construction is a field where most develop strong opinions. I find it helps if I don't feel it necessary to get in the last word. On the chummy side I worked in The Dalles ( yes the actual name of this town is b The Dalles) today and drove by Rowena. Isn't that your future home site Casey? The gorge was gorgeous today with the grass golden yellow, alders and oaks yellows and rust, and almost black rock seperated by sky and water. I'm sure you will be happy there Casey.Joe
*We seem to run into this again and again and again.I think most of us who actively participate here are professionals who are mainly looking to interact with our peers.We ask each other questions,share info,advice,encouragement,and take every opportunity to rag on each other. Most of it is all in good fun.I do not think most of us are here to operate a DIY how -to clinic for homeowners.Most of us are pretty reasonable about giving DIY advice,but that is a sideline and completly incedental to why we are here.If you ever read the little Breaktime disclaimer when you first log on you will see what this forum was aiming for,and I believe we are remarkably faithfull to that intent---an electronic,jobsite coffee break.Now ,just how much attitude do you think you might encounter if you walked onto a REAL jobsite coffee break and started asking which was the best brand of spackle,or how to save 75 cents worth of unused caulk?You would probably get your answer, but you would probably get some "attitude" also.
*I must appologize Stephen.The consensus seems to be that I'm in the wrong on this one.I didn't realize that this forum was mainly for professionals interacting with their peers and that the DIY advice was a sideline.I didn't mean to ask so many renovation questions.I'm still learning and I'm kind of hungry for good information and advice.That's why I came to this site.I'll keep my questions to a minimum.Can you recommend a good site for DIY'ers who are looking for good renovation and construction advice?ThanksGaby
*Gaby,
Joseph Fusco View Image"Whenever, therefore, people are deceived and form opinions wide of the truth, it is clear that the error has slid into their minds through the medium of certain resemblance's to that truth." Socrates
*I agree with Joe. Fire away. That's what makes this board different than others I read. Just don't take it to personally when the fur starts flyin'. It's not much different than most families I've been around. Welcome, we're all wearin' milk-bone underwear here. - jb
*Hey,I think anybody who wants to ask a question here should fire away and ask.But,before you ask,you should realize where you are and who you are asking.I do get tired sometimes of people asking for advice or opinions and then getting upset when they don't get the opinion they wanted.Stephen
*Well you got some good responses Gaby. I like the one by KCoyner about the trades being full contact. Do you want to put us on the field and say no tackle, this is touch football? Not me, and I have been guilty of a heavy hand on a couple occasions where I felt a little bad about it later and usually made amends but so it goes...Besides, it's the personalities that make this site the best. You can get all the good information you want. Soak it up and let 'em fly, my opinion.MD
*Gaby,I've been on-line for about 8 years now, and have hung out in a number of forums covering different subjects. I've just recently started checking in here semi-regularly.Many of the forums I've come to know have much less "attitude," a few have more. Most of the less "attitudy" fora I'm familiar with are on Compuserve, but there are many on the web with less attitude, as well. There are some jerks here, but you ought to try hanging out on the job siteI think the main difference is where a forum has designated moderators or sysops (a la Compuserve.) Moderated fora seem to be less likely to have chronic jerkiness.Bob
*Gaby,Lots of good things been said here. Ask your questions. We don't bite too hard.........Ed. Williams
*Gaby,I have been a Breaktimer for a good long while now. Over a year I would think. I enjoy shooting the breeze, blowing off steam and trading ideas, advice and anecdotes alike. I have seen quite a few DIY'ers come through and ask for advice expecting all said to be pure and professional, then complaining about the same things you have. We are not paid for our time or our advice here. Most always we give it and in those posts you will certainly find some great advice (along with a bit of this and that on the side). We are not obligated to do this, so be a little more appreciative of what you get or call one of us out and have your checkbook ready....you'll get your advice the way you like it then.Pete Draganic
*The problem we're talking about here is i tone.Internet communication is some strange hybrid of phone-call and letter. Internet language is far more faster than a letter, both in the initial concept of what you are going to say and also in the execution of what and how you say it. You write a letter, you pretty much think about what you are going to say and how, you write it, you hold it overnite, you carry the thing to the mailbox and you drop it in. It's all pretty deliberate. Also, if you were speaking on the phone with somebody, you could say, in any number of ways, GIT OVER YERSELF MAN, and have them not find it offensive. The problem here is it's really very easy to say that (well, because that is what you mean, essentially) and not have the social world of conversation to contend with. Very very weird etiquite (sp!). I've said all this months ago, but it all comes down to b tone. I've seen post after post of: "Oh, I'm sorry, that's not entirely what I mean, when I said dah,de-dah,de-dah." Or at least not quite exactly in that way. This forum is a completely unique kind of group communication, and it will probably be a long time before all the kinks are worked out. (A kindler gentler Breaktime?) Anyway, I think it's ultimately beneficial to anyone who participates in that it will make us all more aware and/or better adept at expressing our feelings through the written word, or at the very least communicating a visual (and perhaps our feelings) about that &*^%$# rotten sill plate. (We'll all be architects in the end, I tell ya'!)ClayPs- Gaby, you only said what has been said countless times before here. Yeah, there's a bunch of crotchety ole bastards around here,i but they're our crotchety ole bastards.
*JB, it's all a thinly vieled ploy... you're a "honorary Texan"... now you'll vote for GW Bush... then the "real" Texans... get a new Gubnor! It's a conspiracy I tell ya.
*Clay... shut off the computer, and go to bed. NO MORE or you're grounded. Damn kids. ACOB
*Go ahead Gaby.Find another forumn with as much knowledge and those who are willing to respond as quick as we here at Breaktime.Does anyone know of someplace where we could send Gaby where he could get more respect and at the same time get more perspectives on a specific question?I have only one other thing to say Gaby.......Grow up and Welcome to the Real World. It ain't your Grandmother's Sunday School Class. And that is a Fact!!Either get over it or delete the bookmark.Sincerely,Jeff(but you won't delete, will you Gaby,(?) you're HOOKED aren't you????)Got a Life Gaby? (I should really jump your shit over that comment but you may be a Saint, I don't really know. I would hate to piss off a saint. Bad Karma.
*Damn.... We was a hopin' no one would figure out our plan. But can you blame us for trying? Actually, I like GW Bush, but I ain't getting into no political fire fight with anybody over him. James DuHamel
*I love the attitude. If I wanted white bread, I'd go to Martha Stewart (who is NOT hot, no matter what anybody says). And if I've pissed anybody off with my tone, tough. Gaby, if anybody has a problem with something I post, let 'em post right back in my face. If you can't take it, this isn't the place for you. It's the difference between a fine french restaurant and the bar on the corner. Sometimes, you just want to go down to that corner bar and bullshit with the guys (and gals) where you can just speak your mind.SHG
*But PAW! I finishid my chores an' ever'thing!!
*Points well taken guys!Talk to you soon.Gaby
*Gaby, new to computers period. only been on this site a couple of times, and to others never. but as a 15 year veteran of the construction wars, I can tell you that alot is said in jest and harmless banter. I have always said "whatever works for you" to others in the field. well I guess I'll go brush up on my "hunt and peck" typing skills. when the days over I'll still wield a better saw than keyboard!
*I'm a DIYer and for good reason, contractors around here are incompetent.
* RJT,
Joseph Fusco View Image
*Yeah, but the Artisans are hot as a pistol!
*Joe, you know damn-well... no DIYer has ever been given a license for a Lumber Stretcher. They have to seek professional help for that.
*Gaby, you wouldn't be... um, er... one of them, ah Canadian-types would you, eh? And if so, where in the land of "Manifest Destiny?"