Hey Everybody-
I’m in the planning process of a renovation and I have to figure out what to do with a portion of roof on the house. The slope of the roof is too shallow to shingle, so I’m either going to reframe it steeper or put some some kind of rubber roof on it if I keep it the way it is. The roof is approximately 23 feet wide by 16 feet deep (eave to ridge). Never having done a low slope before, what are my options? If possible, I would love to do the roof in one piece. I am only interested in materials that I can install myself, as this is for my own house. In your collective expert opinions, what would be the best material to use in this application, and what would the approximate material cost be? Thanks in advance.
Replies
R-Panel with seal strips at the overlaps? Would be light weight, might look kind of "barn-like". I think the minimum pitch is 3/4" in 12"...I might be wrong, though.
Look at McElroy Metal website (I think).
Maybe standing seam, too.....
Sorry - not a rubber roof, just an option....
could you elaborate what the pitch actually is?
Rubber roof is easy to install, just buy the materials and rent a roofing torch. The "torching it down" part is scary to a lot of people, but it's actually a very low melting point. Just hit it with the flame a little and it turns shiny. Have someone else behind pushing the roll as you melt it, or vice versa.
~ Ted W ~
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Meet me at House & Builder!
when you say torch it down, you are talking about modified bitumen which is sometimes called rubber but is not. A rubber roiof is EPDM which does come in large sheets and fewer seams like he seems to want, but it is too heavy then for one man alone to get onto the roof and handle.Torching modbit is deceptive about how "easy" it is. too hot or too cold and you shorten the lifespan of the roof. It takes some experience to make it seem easy.Not meaning to be critical of what you say. I notice you commenting a lot lately and most all of your advice is very good. Glad to have you aboard.There is another form of mod-bit that might be more appropriate for him on this that removes the chance of setting the house on fire and is fairly easy to do alone. The brand I'm using is Polyglas Elastofex. It is a peel'n'Stick like ice and water shield. using it with the base sheet ( another peel'n'stick more like I&W without re-inforciong and granules on surface) it is a fifteen year roof.
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Not meaning to be critical of what you say. I notice you commenting a lot lately and most all of your advice is very good. Glad to have you aboard.
Thanks Piffin, glad to be aboard. But I realize I'm still learning too! =)
ShelterNerd, reading through these other posts and by Piffin's clarification, I gotta say I like all the other options mentioned over mine. I know about "modified bituminous" roofing because it's used on apartment buildings, here in Chicago. But for a house, I think the other options are far more appropirate.
~ Ted W ~
Cheap Tools! - MyToolbox.netMeet me at House & Builder!
Edited 4/15/2009 8:57 am by Ted W.
Another option is to use double coverage roll roofing. Install with roofing tar brush. Just don't look at the "monkey dung" or it will get on you!
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Talk to the guys down at ABC supply about their "Mule Hyde" EPDM rubber roofing. We've installed a lot of it and they give out a free video and all sorts of installation help. I like it much better than built-up or torch-down. We build roof gardens with it, even had a koi pond on one, very versatile stuff. back breaking to pick up a 20 x 50 roll of the stuff and try to get it on a roof.
Here's a photo of one we did with a single seam. two pieces of rubber, nice roof hatch and party deck up there too. The roofing went up through the center access hatch on an extension ladder. each piece must have weighed 200 pounds and took six or seven folks and all sorts of wacky "safety ropes" to bring it up the ladder. We had a big party rolling it out and gluing it and seaming it. The moms were freaking about the kids up there and so on. John had a great potato cannon party up there a while back. Stuff is really easy to fix if you accidentally drop a knife or burn a hole in it too.
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"You cannot work hard enough to make up for a sloppy estimate."
hehehehe...
you said potato cannon party.
do you know what is is more fun than shooting a potato cannon?
Watching one being fired off at night. What a flame.
Cheap hairspray(Suave in the pink can) is my favorite propellant
come to think of it, maybe Taunton will let me do a "how-to" thread on making one.
Yeah, it was a night time roof top potato cannon party. (and gliders and bottle rockets and other fun stuff to chuck off a high place.------------------
"You cannot work hard enough to make up for a sloppy estimate."
EPDM is my favorite low slope material, but he effective eliminated it when he said he wants to do this alone, unless he is built like Arnold in younger days.but if he goes with it, he will need to study about compatibility issues and using recovery board underlayment too.
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Another option would be to install a glue-down EPDM . These you do not torch down, instead you brush on glue to the roof deck surface, then roll out and lay down the EPDM. Once down in place it will not move. You can also shingle right overtop of the EPDM...the rubber material grabs the roofing nails tight, like neoprene washers and keeps out rain water.
We did a house with a pitch that was almost dead flat..approx 1-1/2 on 12. We removed the existing roofing material, then nailed down a layer of 7/16 plywood for a smooth base. Then we brushed the glue onto the plywood and installed the membrane. After the membrane was installed, we rolled felt paper over top and proceeded to shingle the roof with regular 3 tabs to match rest of house.
That was 5 years ago...roof still good..no leaks.
Davo
Would it have been cheaper to have used Gracie Ice&Water Shield instead of the EPDM?
Cheers
Absolutely!or should I say, Definately
;)He should have asked here first five years ago.
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Yes you're right. It is cheaper to use Grace Ice & Water Shield.
And, I have gone that route since. But all the talk about EPDM got me to thinking about the first time I did a flat roof with shingles overtop, and that was how I did it. Infact, the EPDM I was using really wasn't much thicker than the Ice& Water...which is why I went that route on the next job. Never had a call back using either method.
Davo
Big mistake there!!!EPDM is not compatible with bituminous materials like the tarpaper and shingles. It will disintegrate over time. You'd have been better off with I&W shield on that job than the expensive EPDM.Also, the contact cement gets applied to both the rubber and the deck, not just one of them.
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"The contact cement gets applied to both the rubber and the deck"
No Piffin, not with the material I was using. Perhaps the rubber material I used was not a "true" EPDM material?
This stuff came in rolls that were originally 3 ft X 60 ft and cost me $95 a roll. It currently is found in rolls 3ft X40 ft and now costs $117.
The name of this material was Hyload and I believe is mfg in Kansas. I bought this through a chain supply store known in my region as Famous Supply...it's mostly an eastern chain store.
The "cement" is a 5 gallon can of actual asphalt primer...which is what it says directly on the can...so evidently the stuff I was using is asphalt based.
This rubber had a "slip" sheet that you had to remove when installing; just like Ice & water shield. The instructions were clear..I used long handled throw away scrub brushes to apply the "cement." Again, the cement was a black, asphalt based liquid that went on shiny black and became a dull black when dried. It only took 30 minutes for the cement to dry. Then I started at one end, and had to roll out the rubber while simultaneously removing the slip sheet. The rubber itself already had an adhesive applied to the bottom of it...thus the slip sheet. Once the rubber met the deck, you could not move it...likewise if the rubber accidently made contact to itself...it would not pull apart...it would have to be cut out. Each roll was rolled out and overlapped just like roofing felt.
I think the term EPDM is sometimes a misnomer.
This rubber roof material HYLOAD, was being touted by Famous Supply as an EPDM material. But in retrospect, it probably is not.
I once was called out to patch a rubber roof on a commericaial building. Someone had tried to patch a few holes on it before using regular roofing cement to anchor down the patches.
You are 100% correct in that in this instance, the roofing cement reacted with the original memnbrane and ate holes through it...compounding the situation. I had to purchase a special , non-asphalt based glue from a local roofing outfit that specializes commercial, membrane work. Of course I had to cut out the original patches and replace with new, using that special glue.
That was my first realization that not all rubber roofs are asphalt compatible.
Davo
what you describe is definitely asphalt/bituminous and not EPDM. I'd have to see their literature to see why they the=ink they can use the term. It is not easy to mis-apply it, being a very accurate scientific formulation. IIRC, the full name is Ethyl Dien Propyl Monimer. Only three manufacturers of it in the US and several more distribution points under different names, but the product is all the same chemistry.It is the term "rubber" roofing that gets misapplied.
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http://www.hyloadhyproof.com/They have several products - some of which they describe as rubber-like, but I can't find them using the term EPDM.
All appear to be bituminous
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I'm not saying that the manufacturer of Hyload said their product was EPDM...but at the supply store where I bought the material, the sales clerk was touting it as EPDM. Having never installed any roofing membranes before this product, and not knowing the difference, I took his word for it.
Evidently this stuff is, as you say, simply a rubber roof membrane and not EPDM. I quess I goofed on my original post by calling it EPDM since I forgot about the difference between asphalt base and non asphalt base membranes...I generally use the term EPDM when speaking about a membrane type roofing material that is not your normal Ice & Water Shield, but..I guess I better get my terminology right; as I don't want to give out wrong advice.
I have never installed any other type of roofing membrane, such as a torch down, or a different glue down product.
I've always used the Hyload product. I don't do a lot of flat roofs. I've used the Hyload material on 2 flat roofs by itself, and the one time in conjunction with the 3 tab shingles. I've also used it on sliding door threshold areas on small out buildings, and on a few parapet walls. It always worked great.
Being that I tend to shy away from roof jobs these days, it's been a couple of years since I last worked with the stuff.
I have used the Ice & Water Shield along with shingles on two residential roofs. They too have worked out great. And of course on normal roofing jobs the W&Imembrane gets put down along the eaves and valleys; although I back up the valleys with metal as well.
Having to repair that commercial roof I mentioned gave me my first experience with a Carlisle brand roof; which since roofing cement would eat through it, it must have been an actual EPDM.
Sorry for the goof. But, The roof I installed and the method I used was and is sound and most assuredly will not rot away.
Davo
true, I wasn't saying anything wrong with the product, just clarifying that it was not EPDM and that EPDM is not compatible with asphalt products for other readers.
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What is the slope?
Less than 2/12, I'll vote for EPDM, but as others said, it's not likely you'll be able to handle the roll by yourself. Also, you'll have to have a seam with the dimensions you gave. NBD.
There are no expensive special tools necessary for EPDM and water borne adhesives are available for it which are not as nasty as the solvent adhesives.
Some surface preperation will be necessary for a reroof. But, in some situations, you can use polyiso sheets for recovery board and increase your insulation.
http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
Thanks for your responses guys. To clarify, the roof pitch is 1/12 and I will have a helper or two with the installation. When I said I was going to be doing it myself, I meant that I was not going to hire a roofing sub. I talked to the folks at Conservation Technologies and they said an EPDM roof would be between $2 and $3 dollars a square foot, depending on flashings. My roof is very simple, going staight from eave to ridge with no wall intersections. The CT folks said they seam the EPDM in-house and then ship it in one piece. She said the rubber would weigh around 150 pounds for a roof my size. Just looking to explore all my options before I pull the trigger on anything.
ask about the diff in .045 and .060 thickness too. I always use the heavier for longer life. 150# for that size sounds lite to me.I recall once loading a full roll about 450# by myself once. Took near half an hour and I was exhausted the rest of the day.
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For the size mentioned and the weight quoted, I'm pretty sure it's .045.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
what I thought
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Absolutely he should use the 0.060 stuff. No reason to lose 10 to 15 years of life, unless there are plans to tear the thing down within 30 years or so.If locally purchased, perhaps it could be delivered to the roof-top?Anyway, my vote is 60 mil EPDM. Longest life, easy to repair, reasonably easy to install.
Take a look at Seal-o-flex. Basically it's a brush on acrylic rubber (or natural rubber, they have two systems) that is reinforced with a nylon open weave fabric. If you can paint and use scissors, you can install this stuff. http://www.sealoflex.comThere are plenty of posts in the archives about applying it. I've got plenty of experience with it (at least IMHO :) on flat roofs. It works great. Definitely get a couple of rolls of the special flashing fabric. Z
Where are you? (fill out your profile)
And what is the pitch?
Thins that would work in the desert southwest, are non starters in say Seattle.