Hello all. We have finally started our building project and it is going well. No major snags so far.
We have found something interesting to us and I am interested in your comments/experience. The architect has called for roughsawn lumber that will be seen from the inside of the structure (the remainder of the wall structure is outside of this framing. This material is structural, not decorative and hence must be inspected and stamped.
The point of interest is the cost. For standard framing lumber, a 2×4 is 36c/lf and a 2×6 is about 55c/lf. For the roughsaw the cost is 2$ and 3$ per lf respectively.
I know this is a “nonstandard product” but is this cost differential for one less step in the production process (ie, not planing) realistic? Needless we are not able to use it – the two buildings combined are almost 5000 sf – a huge additional cost that our gudget will not contain.
I’m interested in your comments.
Secondly, we now have a large number of pics of the project from the orginal state to the current status. I’ve been asked if I could post. Mike from Rhode Island did a great job of posting from a project that he did start to finish. I have never posted any photos to this site – how do I do it?
Mark MacLeod
Replies
Go to the top left..."Post New "....Title it, categorize it...
include some descriptive,,and look lower on the page, hit "attach files", "Browse" thru your pic.s/photo locations,
download (smaller files referred for coal fired slow-line connection...) and review and post.
Cheers,Phil.
"If 'tis to be,'twil be done by me."
Edited 11/18/2008 11:44 am by Philter
they started that trick here a while ago, used to be able to saw and use your own lumber, now everything structural has to be graded, might be cheaper to buy from a local sawyer and then hire your own lumber grader???
Last I heard, anything over 1.5" thick, HAS to be KD IF there is to be power in said stucture, or the PoCo won't energize. That was the last I heard a few /5 yrs ago.
Now, most mills don't want to Kiln SPF and those species for structural framing, due to (A) LAck of market (B) Kiln losses, and (C) it's more profitable to dry more exp. species.
So you are looking at a rare commodity, or custom lumber.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
yes, you are right. The dimension would be 2x4 or 2x6 - no loss for planing. The material would have to be kiln dried. Why does material under 1.5 not have to be kiln dried if it is being used for structure?Mark
mark.... what is your source for the roughsawn...... they should be able to get it graded and stamped for an additional chargekeep your pics in a .jpg format.... my favorite size is 640 x 480... i resize my 7 - 10 megapixel pics in IrfanView... and then save them to a story-folder to post on BTthen follow the instructions for posting pcs after they're posted.... open the pic.... right click... and "copy"then go back to the post... and click on "edit"edit your original post and insert the pic in the text by choosing "paste"or... you could get a life and skip the posting..... nahMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
The source is a local sawyer with a kiln. The price I noted did not include the grading and stamping cost - estimated to be another 1000 to 1500$Thank you for the suggestions on posting. You're right - I should get a life but, ah what the hell, we are pretty excited . Oh and the laneway came in at 20G instead of 60 (it's 2500 feet) - so a win right off the bat.Mark
I can only guess that it reaches Eq. MC fast enough to be non conductive in a short time.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
" Why does material under 1.5 not have to be kiln dried if it is being used for structure?"
The code does not say that material has to be kiln dried specifically, rather it says it must be below a certain moisture content. You can satisfy that by drying it any way that works.
It does not apply to materials under 1.5" because apart from sheathing, the code does not recognize materials that small as structural. Similarly it does not recognize 4"x4" posts or joists not spaced at 12, 16, 19.2 or 24 inches. It is a strange animal.
You might want to re-think using rough sawn lumber inside the house. It is a devil to clean or dust.
Edited 11/19/2008 11:41 am ET by fingersandtoes
there is another way.. If you check the building code yourself you'll find a clause which permits ungraded wood. None of my wood is graded and that's over 50,000 bd.ft.
aside from that my local sawmill will grade and stamp wood for 10 cents a bd.ft. Somebody isn't doing their home work and asking you to cover their costs..
I was going to weigh in on this yesterday, but, because some of the comments you received baffled me a bit, I did some research to get myself on firm ground.
The price of lumber right now is as low as it's been in over a decade and the prices you were quoted for the rough-sawn boards is ridiculously high unless you were quoted for vertical grain clear on the faces (wide dimension of the boards). And in a structural application, the strength axis is tangential to the grain, so you wouldn't want VG faces anyway.
My experience is mostly with Douglas fir and you should be able to get Structural Select grade (which has nice appearance with tight grain and only occasional small knots)for less than a dollar a board foot. If it's kiln dried, add maybe 10 cents to that.
High quality Doug Fir should be readily available by special order to a lumber yard near you originating from British Columbia. Go to a yard other than a Big Box to make your inquiries and talk to Contractor Sales. Even the freight shouldn't be too horrible....your order would just be part of a full truck or rail car.
I checked with my utility (serves much of the West USA, from the Rockies to the coast) on the green vs. dried issue and they'd never heard of such a problem. After all, a lot of Timber frames and log homes are built with green materials of significant cross-section with wiring routed right through borings in the logs or beams.
It was suggested in one post that a grade stamp may not be needed, but in a structural application, building inspectors in most jurisdictions (though I don't know much about Canada) will want some kind of documentation of grade on the materials used. Once the inspections are complete, these grade marks can be removed....a bit tougher on rough-sawn but doable.
You could also explore, as an alternative, using LVL's or appearance grade laminated beams....even these materials are much less expensive than the prices you were quoted.
Good luck
Roughsawn, structural, seen from the inside, right?
Needs to all exhibit grade stamps. Right?
What is the finish for all this visible structure? If it is to be painted, you can hide all those grade stamps. If it is to be clearcoated, or stained and clearcoated, don't you have a problem?
Were you aware of all this going in, when this rustic look all got discussed and agreed upon? The bits about the special sourcing for the timber, the grade stamping, what issues it might create with appearance?
Have you discussed some other sort of certification with your possible sources, other than inking an ugly stamp on each piece? Have you discussed alternatives with your building department and inspectors?
I'm sure glad I am not in a juristiction like yours. Everything here is Adirondack great camp rustic, roughsawn rules, and no one, not a soul, has ever required gradestamped lumber.
View Image
"A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
Thanks for everyone's input. The source for the material was a local mill - and I have now talked to the builder about sourceing from an out of province supplier. We discussed with the architect - and I think we will end up with dressed material for the cleaning and dust reasons someone mentioned. The material will have a clear finish (TBD)Apparently the grade stamping thing has been here for a few years. No one can tell me why it is required. Is just showed up one day.Mark
Sounds like you got the problem solved, but FWIW I needed some roughsawn material recently. I already had a batch of nice S4S material on hand, so I took it to a guy with a resaw and he ran it for me. His machine is a Baker belt-fed horizontal resaw with a huge blade and it was able to take off approx. 1/16" and produce a perfect roughsawn face.
I have special ordered roughsawn fir beams in the past and they do charge a mint for them. Apparently it's just too much trouble to pull material out of the green line before it gets S4S'd.
Hello all. We decided to go with dressed lumber. For cost and dust reasons as pointed out. As well, the money we save we are putting into better insulation. So all in all, a good solution and I thank all of you for your input.mark