Hi Folks
I have a strange request from a client and before I call the men in white coats for him I thought I would ask you all. The Job is in MA The client wants to hire a truck and go to Canada to buy the lumber for a third floor and a compleate gut of a two family house. He thinks he will save a lot of money. I think even if he could buy in canada the logistics and costs will be the same or even higher than buying from the usual sources here. Please let me know what you think. I told him I would look around.Thanks for the input don’t hurt anything laughing.
Buck
Replies
Hahahahahaha
Tell the client to get the lumber delivered, then you'll take a look to make sure the quality is good, then you'll give him a price on the installation.
If the guy is micromanaging you at this stage....you're in for a long haul.
blue
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
The US slaps Canadian softwood lumber with a punative tariff. Unless your client is planning to smuggle 2x's under his shirt he'll probably still have to pay duty, a customs broker and transportation. There could be an exception but I doubt it.
IMHO, this is a harbinger of things to come, I hope you have a good contract.
edit: The current softwood lumber dispute (Lumber IV) commenced in April of 2001. Since May 22, 2002 most Canadian softwood lumber exported to the US is subject to a 27% duty collected by US Customs. The duty collected is a combination of a countervailing duty of 18.79% and an average anti-dumping duty of 8.43%.
From http://www.for.gov.bc.ca/HET/Softwood/
The awful thing is that beauty is mysterious as well as terrible. God and the devil are fighting there, and the battlefield is the heart of man.
- Fyodor Dostoyevski
Edited 12/12/2004 9:31 pm ET by fn_benthayer
That tariff is for softwood. Does this include hardwoods such as Oak Flooring?
Last time I drove a load over the bridge, the wood was in plain sight.
I told the customs officer about the wood and he told me to drive through.
Now I'm curios -- I'll inquire next time I cross the border.
I'm just an HO....But I live in NY on the border with Canada.
Almost everyone around here buys their wood for floors in Canada.
It's much cheaper and there is no duty on wood products from canada. For some reason, wood is cheaper in Canada.
For me it's a 5 minute drive and $3.50 toll on the bridge -- It's faster than going to Home Depot.
It's worth considering, but may not be feasible given your location, US$ - CAN$ exchange rate, size of job, etc.
Dave.
I'm not sure how much you're buying but I think there might be a difference between a trunk load of hardwood and a big commercial truck with a company name on it coming across the border
Edited 12/12/2004 9:42 pm ET by robert
You're right, I only had a van load. Maybe $1,000 (CAN) at the most. I forget the duty free limits for trips and number of people in the car. For example, the rule used to be if you crossed the border and came back within 24 hours, you had $300 per person duty free in the car. If you stayed longer, the $ amount increased.
I may have been covered under those limits.
But, before the tariffs were put in place, many contractors from my town would go over and purchase > $10,000 of wood and bring it over saving a lot of money. I know they did that for my ex-mother-in-laws wood floor. Saved her a lot of money.
He can bring wood back himself fairly easily. But he physically has to be in the truck and accompany the lumber. It's no different than buying any other souveniers and bringing them home. When I lived on the border I've done it with other building materials, but not softwood lumber.
But, if he is going to hire someone, they have to be licensed to cross the border and fill in all the paperwork. He'll pay brokerage fees. "Sales tax" is 15% in Canada. The exchange rate is much less favorable than it was a couple of years ago. I can't imagine trucking costs for a special trip would not eat up any difference. Most of our lumber comes from Canada anyway, and lumber is such a small part of the cost of construction that the hassle is not worth any savings. I doubt there will be any savings.
I agree that this is a bad sign and indicates a customer you want to run away from.
"Sales tax" is 15% in Canada.
That depends upon province: 15% would include the Provincial Sales Tax (8% in your example) and the 7% GST (which is a Value Added Tax).
3 of 4 Atlantic provinces combine the two taxes into one 15% tax called "HST" (Harmonized etc.). Alberta has no PST, other provinces vary around 7 - 8%.
Americans can apply to receive a rebate of the GST, effectively paying only the PST. Definitely worth doing on a large purchase.
And yeah, Jeff, your customer sounds nuts.
Regards,
Tim Ruttan
Agreed. Ontario would probably be where the Massachusetts cheapo would buy from.
The GST refund is easy to do. But I would not tell the client about it if I were trying to talk him out of his scheme.
Up here in Western Washington we get almost all of our framing lumber and cedar from Canada, and a lot of the plywood too, if I stop to think about the stamps and tags I see on stuff. So, it has to be either better, cheaper, or easier, or some combination of all three. The border (on I-5) is maybe 100 miles north.
I agree with the others who say the HO is trouble. One of my friends just emailed me about how she's redoing her kitchen and is getting all the plumbing fixtures from fixtures.com or whatever... I told her to cut that sh!t out and let the plumber provide them... be a good customer.
Hi , I live on the border with british columbia. all my building packages come from Canada. The last home package filled a semi-truck. You save the canadian tax. No duty. No US tax either. The invoice is made out to the home owner. Home owner meets truck a said border station. Home owner hands over a five dollar bill to custom agent, and he's on his way to the job site. I have had them ask for a building permit to validate everything. All in all smooth operation.
Pat
...would that be five American dollars?.....or our money? that could be some difference these days....
next thing ,y'all should try to get Cdn. carp.s down there.see what a hassle that is...I had to install/build a log spiral staircase in Washington.....if that isn't a specialty, I don't know what is...we just went down to "see the Mariners"....'I've no desire to hang around with a bunch of upper-class delinquents, do twenty minutes' work and then spend the rest of the day loafing about in Paris drinking gallons of champagne and having dozens of moist, pink, highly experienced French peasant girls galloping up and down my - hang on...'
I'd say that if he is in MA, and buys the lumber locally, it's about a 50/50 toss up as to whether it's Canadian or not.
I can't see how you'd save, unless you lived near the Can border, and owned your own truck.
The duty is on SOFTWOOD LUMBER only, not on hardwood or finished products. That's a whole different kettle of fish.
That said, our local mega family lumber business that owns about 12 multi million dollar computerized sawmills has HD as their single biggest customer.
Hello all.
Here in the great state of Minnesota we get alot of Canadian 2x material. There is some deal that happens when their import quota is reached or something like that, and then toward the end of the year all of 2x4 & 2x6 have a 1" hole drilled in them.
Apparently then they are considered "machined" and they can import as many of them as they want.
Good Luck. rg
the holes in studs and the milling of the hardwood flooring make them "manufacrtured" products, not subject to the tariff. The framing lumber is a commondity instead of a produuct.don't awsk me to explain it logically. The customer wanting to do this is loony.
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Why not hire a frieghter and go to Austria or Finland?....thats where all the studs I've used here in WV have come from in the last year.Theyre beautiful studs and few culls.Amazing when u think the amt of times this wood has been handled since a tree and the route it takes to get to Applalachia...and its cheaper than western us woods?!
Indeed, I was just reading some promo from the German lumber industry,and apparently even the Germans can produce white wood cheaply. I was also surprised to see Douglas Fir among their offerings. I thought Douglas Fir was a North America-only species.
The holes are an innovative way to change how the stud is taxed/dutied/tariffed at the border. The idea is that electricians use it to run wires.