We have SIX lumberyards fighting for the biz in this small town of mine, not because the town is large (pop. about 3,000) but because the nearest town of any size is 50 miles away, and it isn’t all that big. All over these northern Adirondacks in way upstate NY, expensive weekend homes are getting built, some in the remotest of locations, and that is what the six are fighting over.
I like to do all of my lumberyard biz via email, using .pdfs to attach RFQs, drawings, schedules, details, purchase orders, releases, special order requests, quality issues, requests for return pickups, delivery schedules, and so forth.
I have tried all six, and have settled in with the only one that can meet my needs for timely response to my emails. All the others are basically dinosaurs, in my view, when it comes to the web as primary communication tool.
Problem is, that one supplier that’s web-smart and gives me great service in terms of communication, sometimes struggles when it comes to timely deliveries, because they ship from a location over an hour away. Way way over an hour away.
So I thought I would try again, to develop one of the closer yards as a good backup, or even switch to them as primary. This outfit’s a biggie, with one of the largest white pine sawmills in the NE, right alongside it and under the same ownership.
Emailed the president, a guy quite web-savvy, who emailed me right back. I’ve known this kid since he was a kid, and I know his dad, and knew his grandpa. Goes way back. My dad worked as a logger for his gramps when dad was between some college years, way back in the depression years.
I said, “Mr Pres, I need a lumber supplier I can do biz with strictly by email, so we can get things done clearly and quickly. I want a paper trail, don’t want to play phone tag, forget those garbled and smeared faxes, don’t need pencils, free lunches, or t-shirts, just web-fast response, and good delivery service. Competitive prices and quality materials are a given.”
He says, sure, let me set you up with, we’ll call him Joe. Contractor sales manager. Here’s Joe’s email. I’ll tell him to expect your emails.
I try it for a few days with Joe. Get nowhere. Gotta call Joe most of the time, ask him to read his emails. Problem is, Joe is out most of the time, and email is not his priority when he is in.
Called Mr Pres back, told him my tale of woe. He says, let me set you up with Joe’s inside back up, we’ll call her Nancy. Mr Pres says Nancy is email smart, is in all the time, responds quickly. I say, fine.
So now I start emailing everything to Nancy. I’m thinking, this is great, it’ll be just like dealing with my razor-sharp gal up at the faraway yard.
But then, big disappointment. I am finding out that all Nancy does is take my emails, and forwards them to Joe. If you cannot give it to Nancy by SKU and quantity, she cannot deal with it.
AAAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!
Just had to vent.
Replies
I know where you're coming from, Gene. The number of times I've left phone messages for our regular salesman, only to have him send the wrong stuff, even when I've asked for a phone call back to confirm (which he rarely does.)
The supplier we're using on my current job is pretty good at email, but this week he "didn't get" an order I sent in last weekend. Really screwed me up this week.
As usual, construction is the last industry to adapt to modern systems.
Why do you care if they're shipping from over an hour away, if the service is good?
The diesel is on them, so I don't care about the distance. Problem is, on less than truckoad orders, they cannot pinpoint my jobsite delivery time, and with a number of other partials on board, so at times I don't see my stuff until late p.m.
No biggie, unless it is something I needed for say, Wednesday morning, and I forgot to ask for it to drop on Tuesday.
The other thing is that these more-local guys, the biggie I am trying to get next to, have more supply lines of windows, doors, and millwork.
This smells a little bit like money.
Explain?
Gene,
Hmmmmmm,---how to put this ?
perhaps you are being unreasonable?
from HERE---it looks like you have personally designed a system that would be hugely beneifial to YOU------ but not really beneficial to THEM. You seem a bit frustrated that the Big BOY Outfit---won't change its' established mode of operation to accomodate YOU.
why should they?
I would suspect that when you designed this scenario--it was a win /win proposition in your view------------- but in BigBoys view------it's a pain in the rear. It looks like a HUGE pain in the rear to me, LOL
Much more practical for YOU to adapt to THEIR schedule.
Stephen
BTW-- went back to re-read your messages to double check something--they are a bit confusing---but it looks like you HAD an outfit that was meeting your needs communication wise---but wasn't always able to bail YOU out when you forgot to order in a timely fashion----hmmmmm?
I am just a little guy here------but I have always been delighted with the delivery service I get here, because I bend over backwards to fit into the suppliers routine. I think that it helps that I actually go IN to THEIR place and order in person.( the one place I usually go to---when I walk in 3 or 4 people will call out in unison "STEVE!---what's up steve, what's go on, etc."----( it's actually kind of gratifying,LOL)
price means very little to me in this---but they know ME by name-I know them by name----I just don't see anyway to develope that personal commitment via Email. I do know that they have done me what I consider extraordinary favors that I am SURE would never have happened via Email communications.
Best wishes,Stephen
Edited 12/9/2006 5:00 pm ET by Hazlett
I thought of this, too. Gene, your plan isn't a bad one; it would certainly work well for you, but it requires that the lumberyard adjust to accomodate you, and they may or may not be willing. They'll have to make the decision, and it may or may not be the decision you're hoping for.
I agree on both arguments BUT, this is 2006 for crying out loud. Email should be an option, and why shouldnt one be allowed to be pciky about whom he buys his building supplies from.
Huge pain in the rear to respond in a timely way to emails? Do you treat your customers this way?
Gene,
" Huge pain in the rear to respond in a timely way to Emails? Do you treat your customers this way ?"
Gene----- there is no need to get snarky------you are maybe kind of trying to insult me, LOL
but in a word, YES that's EXACTLY how I treat my customers. I will NEVER respond to an Email from a customer in a timely manner--in fact I will never respond to a customers Email at all.----the reason is, that I am NEVER going to GET a Email from a customer.
My customers call on the phone--- they get a message instructing them to leave their name, number, a short message, and the time the would like to recieve a return phone call. In general I make all my calls during the same short time period each day. If a customer-or prospective customer request a call at 10:00 AM the next day or at 11:30 Pm tonight--if humanely possible I will make the call at that specific time. No customers have my Email, No customers have my cell phone #---in fact only 6 people in the world have my cell phone #----( no make that 7 people)------my wife, my 2 sons, 1 sub, 2 suppliers, and a FHB editor---- that's it, period.
If my cell phone rings-- I answer it because I have limmited it to only people I have an ongoing relationship of importance.- My land line business phone------ I don't think I have ACTUALLY answered that in YEARS( I used to answer EVERY call personally--call forwarding to my cell phone----but telemarketers KILLED that possibility)
how do I get MY material orders filled?----pretty much the same way Mike Smith outlined in his excellent post. I realize that I am a very small fish in the big pond my supplier operates in---in fact I am a small fish compared to my SUB!( his volume of business totally dwarfs mine)-----but I get excellent service from the supplier by fitting into THEIR system---and in fact the SUB-actually delays work on his own projects in order to handle MINE--because I make it beneficial for him to do so.
I realize, Gene, that your projects totally eclipse mine in size and scope---- but to me that means you have to be even MORE organized than ME. unless I misread your posts--you had a smaller supplier meeting your needs comunication wise----------so where is the ACTUAL problem?- It doesn't look like it's really a problem with the bigboy supplier.
Best wishes, Stephen
Explain?
Well I waited to respond thinking Im off base and mebbe I am but its still the way I am.
I do a lot of pricing . I would call all six yards on a fancy entry door . If I saved 200 on the door and it was a day late , I wouldnt sweat it. Id just run another play till the door arrived. Punching in work detail is part of it and so are dummies working at lumber yards. To me thats what the cell phone was created . Its like the shows that portray flipping houses by dummies that somehow demand work times of subs . Ive never witnesed that in real life unless there was real repeat business there and the sub depended on one person for most of the work.
Anyway, finding someone willing to under sell their home is a very hard job at best. Call back and call back again and take the rejection over and over .
People always need pushed one way or the other and leave them with a smile on their face is the goal. No one said it was easy. Not a word said here about pricing which my world revolves around. I understand you want to eliminate your wasted time as you are thinking it is but I see it as part of it .
Then again mebbe I need to be taking lessons from you as I sound old school.
Tim
Edited 12/10/2006 1:46 am by Mooney
"No biggie, unless it is something I needed for say, Wednesday morning, and I forgot to ask for it to drop on Tuesday." Seems to me that at least 1/2 the problem lies with you.
Edited 12/9/2006 5:12 pm ET by dovetail97128
I know you're mostly venting and not really looking for advice, but I'd tell Mr. Pres that he has a chance to win X dollars of business a year, as well as good word-of-mouth advertising, if he can get Joe and Nancy to be responsive.
Maybe Nancy doesn't know that she has authority to deal directly with you in Joe's absence.
I sympathize with you. I work in the ag industry, and it's a constant struggle to work with customers and ag equipment dealers who are intimately familiar with rebuilding a hydraulic pump or replacing a combine rotor, but have little knowledge or interest in email/internet-related things...
One other thing you might consider, if you're not already doing this, is to specify a "due date" on all requests. This can be a simple line at the end of each email, to this effect "Please respond by mmddyyyy; responses after this date will not be considered."
You might also ask Mr. Pres if he minds if you cc him on your communications with Joe and Nancy for a while, so that he gets an idea of the volume of business you're trying to do. A cc to the boss might also encourage Joe and/or Nancy to be more responsive.
Edited 12/9/2006 1:54 pm by torn
Well Gene it looks loke your getting it from both sides..............welcome to BT.
I know EXACTLY what you are annoyed about for the most part.
Phone rings at lumberyard they pick it up.
Email comes in it sits there.
Why?
If you have email; USE it! It's a tool, just like a phone.
That said, you need to decide what is important to you. Email or wood?
I'd have a face to face with the guy you like and perhaps you can find the chink in their system and possibly offer a solution. Or perhaps just come to some kind of agreement or understanding.
If the rep he set you up with is on the road all day, is it possible for him to stay in tuoch via email way up there in the sticks?
Eric
[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
I'm astonished I can't order materials online 24 hours.
Can you imagine? There might be a guy in the yard building loads at night. No customers getting in their way. It would cut down on counter help and allow contractors to order materials from their computer after dinner, or before breakfast.
What about pricing? They look up prices on THEIR computers, right? Why couldn't contractors have some type access number that would allow them to get pricing 24 hrs/day?
I bet a yard (or even a big box) that offered that type service would sell so much lumber it'd make people's heads spin.
Like I said, I'm amazed it's not a common business practice now. Romania wasn't built in a day.
I would be very suprised if the lumberyards had embraced a new technology so quickly. Not anything against lumberyards in particular, just that new technology doesn't get adopted that fast in general when the economic pressure isn't overwhelming.
I see implementing that sort of organization as being a huge investment, mainly in employee time to learn the system. It would be more efficient in the long run, but I don' t think the competition these lumberyards face is cutthroat enough to make them adopt changes like that. They're secure in most of their customers because of geography, habit, and material quality. Some contractors will choose a lumberyard if they can get materials ordered with the click of a mouse, but the contractors aren't really expecting or clamoring for it in most cases.
Sad to say, but I think a lumberyard of the sort you're talking about will come into existence when wal-mart decides to get in the lumberyard business. Because it means easier accounting and less reliance on individual skill for them, and it would work great for their just-in-time stocking and tight schedules.
I wish that architects and contractors and subs would learn to communicate more electronically- can you imagine how nice it would be to have an online set of plans that anyone could sketch on, and the sketches would be trackable and seen by all? digital photos could be added of existing conditions, change orders could be linked, etc. Maybe it's not the silver bullet, but I'm wishing I was using such a system now. A lot gets lost between the architect, my boss, and me. Everytime I want to start working on a new area, I've got to track down all the people who might have decided they don't want to do exactly what's on the plans, if the plans are even detailed enough to build from. oy vey.zak
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
"so it goes"
Oh yeah, I know exactly what you mean, Zak. I am WAY more efficiet doing admin tasks electronically and try to work with subs, designers, engineers and customers who are oriented that way.Romania wasn't built in a day.
I wish that architects and contractors and subs would learn to communicate more electronically-it can be frustrating!
Each guy has his own system that works best for him. Keeping track of whether I should contact a partiular sub via email, fax, cell, or land phone keeps me on my toes.
A lot of my subs do use PCs and email well, possibly better than some of my clients. Being on an island with subs from mainland, it is good for me to advance email photos of job prep to subs.most of my clients are away during the winter season. So I keep them updated with photos also. Have a few to send today.
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gene.....i think there are many facets to this problem:
1) small fish in a big pond.... you work one or more projects at a time, so in terms of any lumber yard, you will alwyas represent a minimal amount of their volume.... and you will always be a small part of some outside salesman's volume
if they have a typical operation, they have one outside salesman covering a territory / list of contractors... being assised by an inside coordinator... who may cover for two outside salesmen
first thing i did in your case is establish myself with ONE yard.... don't get me wrong.. you are a good account, but not a huge account.. you mean more to that outside salesman than you do to the yard... i would think that is where you should concentrate your energy
2) the inside coordinator is just that: inside on the hot-seat: he/she has plans on their desk, they're trying to get a hold of some mfr's rep., the phone is ringing on 2 lines, there is an impatient contractor sitting at her desk, the fax machine is down the hall with faxes for her, and engineering wants an answer about some prints she sent over two weeks ago.... oh , yeah... that gene davis fella sent her an email yesterday
3) her boss is the outside salesman on a day-to-day basis, that is the person she / he has to please.... and the big cheese... the sales manager...
4) i agree : faxes suck...especially in terms of legibility... but they do provide a piece of paper to stick in the file with your signature on them
5) emails have to develop some method of getting a signature on them that is at least as acceptible to the business world as a fax with a signature on it
6) i don't think there is a cut & dried solution to this problem... if you are a Pulte, the yard will adapt to whatever system Pulte has to get their business... but in this case you have to find out how to make your system work within their organization
7) find the yard you like, good pricing, good service, good quality... if they are also your millwork source, then the door line & window line they represent will be a big part of your decision.. give 90% or more of your business to that one yard.. keep other accounts for special circumstances
8) be prepared to start the education process all over again every time your outside salesman / inside coordinator changes.. people come & people go
9) your cell phone will ALWAYS be part of the loop.. or , if you have bad cell service.. your land line.. no matter what .. there will always be a problem that will need clarification.. emails get lost in the fog of war that is taking place in the inside coordiantors office.. of all the methods of communication available .. it is the easiest one to ignore for the coordinator.. he/ she is just a fireman.... she has 5 fires to fight and the email can smolder harmlessly until she/he gets to it
10) emails will work great... but they need the telephone nudge to get them read..
and don't forget..... getting an email & printing one out are not the same thing..
i get 50 emails a day... i might print one of them.. delete 40 of them.. and move the other 10 into various folders... maybe i'll get to them later
11) pick a yard... get a good outside / inside team from that yard.. work with them
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
mike,
your item #7 is especially relevant to me.
I used one supplier quite happily for about 15 years almost exclusively. Their facilities grew and grew on the same site--without increasing yard personell. Eventually it became a hour long ordeal to pick up a box of nails and a case of caulk.
so i startd using supplier #2----who doesn't carry ELK.
now Certainteed is my primary roofing product line---because that's what supplier #2 carries primarily. Adapting to supplier #2's process has worked out fantastic---the level of service is lightyears beyond what I EVER got from supplier #1
supplier #1 visited me this fall on a project and remarked that I don't buy much from 'em anymore. I explained that their location was 20 some minutes from my house, it takes an hour to complete the simplest ordering/yard transactions-making buying a tube of caulk nearly a 2 hour chore. their rsponse was " well we have opened a satellite branch 3 blocks from supplier #2--why don't you go THERE?"---my response?--" I didn't KNOW you had opened a branch--how would I?-you have NEVER notified me that you opened one "--- It's been 3 months and they STILL haven't mailed me so much as a grand opening flier---------and the 2 times i have stopped in they aren't fully stocked so THOSE trips were totally wasted as well"
I don't make the rules--and being such a small fish---the best I can do is carefully observe the processes in place and adapt MY sytem to work well within the bigboys operation.
Best wishes, All,
Stephen
digital signatures that are legal have been around at least 3-4 years now
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
digital signatures that are legal have been around at least 3-4 years now
Not for me . I either want a mans word which is less or ink.
You brought this up to me years ago about where we live makes a difference , but also what we do and how we go about it also differs. I can see you operating like that on an island working on vacation homes or second homes.
Item #2 is you are in Boston which is the literate capitol isnt it ? There are supposed to be more educated people there per sq ft than anywhere else ? <G>
You need to come see me in Arkansas somtime.
Tim
well, my point in several posts in this thread is that there are a lot of tools available and that I have to be able to use the one that works with whomever I am speaking to. So you would not be on the email list, apparantly. probably the phone at home PM list
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We are always behind here and I guess we always will be . But you are right , you do it how your home town Romans are doing it . Theres not a lot of choice really. I do catch most people home in the PM and thats when my phone is most active .
I did run a house for lease on the NO site and got several emails after the disaster . I posted a pic of the out side of the house on the ad which may have started it , but I got several replies asking for pics of the inside . I sent them out and got a family immediately. The goverment hand delivered the money though which I thought was odd. I told them thats the only way it could be rented and they met my terms . I did not think they would do it to be honest.
Tim
good post
"faxes suck...especially in terms of legibility... but they do provide a piece of paper to stick in the file with your signature on them"
OK. Email me the paperwork, and I'll print it, sign it, fax it to you, snail-mail it, hand-deliver it when I see you at the jobsite, file it, bid it, whatever. I've only had one bid where the contractor emailed me the plans in a pdf file to bid. I think that's pretty cool - easiest set of plans I ever had to track down! And you know what - I've still got 'em anytime I need to access them."Down these mean streets a man must go who is not himself mean, who is neither tarnished nor afraid...He must be, to use a rather weathered phrase, a man of honor, by instinct, by inevitability, without thought of it, and certainly without saying it." - Raymond Chandler
I get 50 emails a day
I'd change my email if I was getting that volume!
Good answers though Mike.
blue
I get a hundred.But forty are from BT, forty from other spam, and ther rest have a 50/50 chance of meaning something important to me.
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But forty are from BT
I'd go insane!
Maybe you didn't check the right boxes in your preferences LOL! Or, you are so loved, that everyone emails you. You can solve that by telling everyone that you think Bush is right about Iraq!
blue
LOL, when I write posts like that, my email really overflows.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
yo..... jimbo....
did you book a room at Mt. Tremblant yet ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike, what in the heck is Mt Tremblant?
blue, heading for google earth
edit. I'm seeing a bunch of stuff near Montreal
Edited 12/11/2006 7:52 am ET by blue_eyed_devil
>> Each guy has his own system that works best for him.Which is most usually whatever he already knows how to do. Such people are a continual frustration to me, especially since I know I'm one of them. ;)
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
E-mail is no longer a new technology!
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
That statement got to thinking about this from a different perspective. I have a hard time doing business with customers who do not use email. It slows communications which can cost me money and confusion/disorganization on jobs. So from the perspective of Gene's lumberyards, he is too advanced for them and he is weeding himself out of their customer base.While OTOH, I am too advanced for some of my customers, to the point that in some cases, it becomes one of the points in prequalifying them.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I understand.In real estate it's said that the commision is always negotiable. It certainly is! And if we know someone to be a pain to work with, slow, unpredictable, etc. we either get a higher commision or don't work with them.I have operated for a while now on the premise that there is always something good to work on. Taking work that is not good, for whatever reason, only makes one unavailable for the good work that's out there.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
The sad fact is that some businesses will be dead over their seeming inability to adapt to electronic communication.I used to frame with a guy who's family's fortune had been lost because his great grand dad couldn't adapt to the fact that nobody needed wagons, buggies, carriages, or coaches any longer. The family had done well for generations with the business. I see computers and e- communication as an even bigger marker of change than was the automobile.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
adaptation is necessary to survive. Those who adapt first and best will thrive insteaad of just survive.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Our lumberyard has started teletransporting materials...all I've got to do is think of my order and it shoots out of the vent stack of the job site portalet...I just reverse the process to pay them.I also know for a fact, that HD is working closely with Dr. Who on a machine to get all orders delivered yesterday. Oh God said to Abraham, "Kill me a son"
Abe says, "Man, you must be puttin' me on"
God say, "No." Abe say, "What?"
God say, "You can do what you want Abe, but
The next time you see me comin' you better run"
Well Abe says, "Where do you want this killin' done?"
God says, "Out on Highway 61."
snork.Romania wasn't built in a day.
Do you think we could get Lowes in on that Dr Who bandwagon as well ?Imagine getting this month's copy of Fine Homebuilding, last month...
Get over it....... The angry going eat you up. ~Brownbagg '06
I could not be in business without my local lumberyards. Call by 8 AM, delivery by end of day. A lot depends on how you pay and how you tip the drivers. When I go to the yard I grease the yard boss and the dispatcher. I have ordered small lots ( 12 squares of shingles) in the morning and they are delivered in early afternoon.Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
The way I read it, he's just trying to nudge these guys into the 21st Century..............I can't imagine Gene is the only one in this area with 6 lumber yards, who thinks electronic communication would be a convenience and a time saver.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
I bet a yard (or even a big box) that offered that type service would sell so much lumber it'd make people's heads spin.
Actually, Home Depot offers just such a service through their Worksite CD. Or at least they used to. It's not a great interface, but it works and you can order 24 hrs a day. I don't know exactly how it works, but I think it sends a fax to the store of your choosing and they call to let you know it's ready after they pull the order.
I have the CD, but I haven't used it to order. I would be interested to hear if anyone has actually ordered from it and what their experience was.
However, I'm not sure if they're actually supporting this service anymore. So make sure they do before you go and place an order from it. The version I have is called Summer 2004. They announced a new version and offered a way to order it in advance, which I did, but I never received it.
-Don
The problem with home depot is that even if you use email to place the order, 90% of the stuff you order won't be right. They don't have any wood that I would use in a frame.
blue
What about pricing? They look up prices on THEIR computers, right? Why couldn't contractors have some type access number that would allow them to get pricing 24 hrs/day?
Both the major box stores offer this ...
The link in the earlier post, the one that takes you to a family owned chain in the Pacific NW, takes you to a website that includes, for all password-protected account holders, complete pricing for all stock and commonly-done special ordered items.
That pricing is available 24/7, and is shown at the account holder's discount.
I can get that here, from at least one of my lumberyards.
I understand a little better now and agree with your last post as a heck of a nice deal.
Of course your problem is getting them to respond to orders email. At least you have the above for pricing with out talking to a person. I love that .
Tim
Jim's idea makes so much sense. I agree, we all should have 24 hour access to that information.
blue
I hadn't even thought of ordering via email, but in some cases it sure would be handy.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
I'm pretty much with you. I love the idea in concept, but I realise I'm in a distinct minority here. Theres a handful of guys that I deal with electronically, and things are just worlds smoother that way. You don't have to worry about 8-5, if its ten at night and you just remembered something that slipped, you can send it and its on their Blackberry when they check it in the morning.
Prints, bids, invoices, always go out and in via email if possible. A friend of mine who has done prints for me periodically, we can go from prelim to final right quick. We both get online, do file sharing, VOIP, and we're talking to each other, looking at the same set of plans, I'm saying no that wall needs to be over by this . . . boom, done. I can watch him drag lines into place. Kinda nice.
But most people are gonna go forth kicking and screaming. It does take learning. As a business, it is yet one more thing that adds cost. You have the web designer, you have someone who has to maintain the site and update, you need to get your own personnel trained to deal with it and use it . . . easier to just be a stick in the mud so far. As a trade, we're one of the last stubborn bastions to reject it. Our wives were buying gifts on amazon ten years ago, but most of us still won't get with the times. Until more do, I don't see lumberyards doing so either.
Real trucks dont have sparkplugs
The yards I deal with in the Seattle area are a family owned chain with around 8 yards. They are fully online at this point and if I had interntet access on job sites I could order materials for delievery over the web. I can even download invoices from past orders. You guys are making me feel like a luddite for not taking advantage of what they offer.
Dunn Lumber
That is a great site. I'm going to find it useful even from 1000 miles away. I'm impressed that they have prices even for glulams and tjis on the site.
I still think it's going to be a slow process to get this to be the norm.zak
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
"so it goes"
Yeah man, THAT'S what I'm talking about!
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Funny thing, huh? Lumber yard like Dunn, what did it say? Been around since '07 or something? THAT'S seeing an opportunity and taking advantage of it.
I bet those guys don't constantly complain about the big box stores. Romania wasn't built in a day.
Yeppers . Im thinking this thread is another case of taking more than I gave again.
Tim
Dunn's site must have been built with the same software as that used by one of our local suppliers. The formats for categorization and item display with pricing are exactly the same.
The nice thing is that when you are set up with a login, you are viewing your fully discounted price for everything they have listed there, which is just about all items they are stocking. I have found that this pricing is closely competitive with everyone else's numbers.
To do rough estimates, I use that pricing in all my estimating spreadsheets. Problem is, that yard with the great website is the one know for the most terrible service, when it comes to trying to get anyone on the phone that knows anything at all. The folks inside are also not very email savvy. So, when it comes to doing real business, I go to someone else, the one that is easiest to communicate with.
Yeah - I'm constantly getting people wanting to fax me - and I'm constantly asking, Can't you just email it? Why is this so difficult - am I missing something?
"Down these mean streets a man must go who is not himself mean, who is neither tarnished nor afraid...He must be, to use a rather weathered phrase, a man of honor, by instinct, by inevitability, without thought of it, and certainly without saying it." - Raymond Chandler
I'd keep emailing the pres and maybe the shareholders.
I'm continually amazed at how poorly many businesses, even very big businesses, do with electronic communication.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
I think I read the whole thread, but did not see this option:
Aren't there some sites that allow people to fax you and you rec it as an email and where you can email to a fax #. If the yard responds quickly to the fax machine, maybe that's a good middle ground?
Adventures in Home Building
An online journal covering the preparation and construction of our new home.
Gene- I am familiar with some of the yards you use. We use even smaller and more antiquated yards but despite this they do give us excellent service. They can often run up supplies to us in a couple of hours. And they have competitive prices.
If you can get them to change their systems at all, I will be amazed. I have found it more productive to try to adapt myself to their system. I am considerably more flexible and I can control my own actions. Worst case I have to put in a personal appearance. This has benefits all its own, as Stephen pointed out. Good luck in your quest. I, for one, would benefit from your success.
Let's compare "antiquated." I'll bet the one closest to me is more dark ages than any of your little guys! LOL
I guess I spent too much time in a big biz in which our purchasing power was so great that the suppliers adapted to our systems, and our distributor chain customers so important to us that we adapted to whatever way they wanted to throw orders at us. So my business background was exactly counter to what goes on between most small builders and their lumberyard suppliers.
Back when I was in that biz, I also got to see what the backoffice ops were like at some of the big pro chain yard operations, all over the country, and saw how those lumber suppliers did business with the bigger builders.
It seems to me that I'm not being unreasonable, in asking that this new tryout respond to my communication via email. But I guess they just cannot do that.
I'm never in a hurry with my sources. My planning for a build is typically done months in advance, and my purchase releases are all packaged up and in the can a month or more in advance of delivery requirements. I provide a weekly update on my future schedule for release deliveries, so they know how to plan. The only time I need quick service is if they ship something wrong or damaged, and you and I both know that they all are pretty good about responding then.
I just hate playing phone tag, especially when our cell service is so bad as it is here. Furthermore, I find fax communication to be faulty, because most all the lumberyards use a central machine, instead of personal fax machines at desktops. How many times have you followed up and heard, "I didn't get that," and then had to re-send, thus losing a week or more?
It has taken me a while to settle with a source that works with me just as I prefer, so I guess I will stay there. I like to use one yard for 100 percent of my needs, if they can supply them.