I posted back in June of ’04 asking for input on a home addition we were planning at the time. Since that time, we signed the contract, lived through 2 major hurricanes (and the resulting project delays), but finally got started in October. The addition is a 280 sf concrete block construction, and the project also includes the replacement of all of the existing french doors with aluminum doors with impact glass to protect us from the next hurricane (hopefully way way in the future!). At this point, the remaining work to complete is the installation of the doors, drywall finishing around the doors, the kitchen cabinets (bases are in, granite templates will be done this week), painting and trim work, and the 450 sf paver patio (work starts tomorrow).
Now the delimma… The first door order (4 – 9’0 openings, 2 – 6’0 openings, 1 pool cabana door) arrived on December 15th with non-impact glass. Only problem was that the GC/Door sub ordered Impact Glass! The Door sub reordered the doors that same day and the new order arrived Jan 28th (a 6 week delay!) Now the problems begin… The doors were ordered as 3/0 doors, which measure 37 5/8″ across the door frame, but the door company personnel entered them as 36″ doors, which resulted in undersized doors. Ordinarily, this might not be a problem, but since my wife faces the prospect of being in a wheelchair some day (she has MS), we wanted the doors to be the maximum opening possible. Secondly, the sidelights are designed with much thinner stiles, resulting in the sidelights having larger glass panels than the door, which makes them look off balance. Our current doors have equal sized glass in the door and sidelights and that’s what we were expecting. You might ask why didn’t you look at them before they were ordered? We tried! There are no showrooms in this area with a 9’0 display, only 6’0, which look fine (and their websites were no help).
I called the GC and we met with the door sub this past Thursday. During this meeting, I found out that the GC had changed the door mfg from the mfg I indicated in the specs. When I asked him why he had done that, he replied “because they had a shorter leadtime, and are comparable in quality (he said he actually spent $1500 more on them). I indicated that the leadtime wouldn’t have been a problem if he had ordered the doors early enough. He didn’t argue that point. Anyway, that’s where we are.
Now to the delimma… Now that we see the doors in the 9’0 cofiguration, we really don’t like them (for the reason stated above). The door sub says the other mfg’s stiles are about a 1/2″ wider than the ones he ordered, so there will very little difference in the appearance. The best looking configuration given the way the sidelights are made would be a 6’0 door with two half sidelights. It seems the likely answer from the door mfg will be to simply fix the problem by sending new 3/0 doors and sliding the sidelights out to accommodate the extra 1 5/8″. This is not what we want. The door sub knows the door mfg’s Chief Operating Officer and suggested I write a letter to him explaining the situation and asking them to make it right since we’re likely to have to endure another 4-6 week delay because of their mistake (on top of the first delay). He said he would call him, but thought I would have a better chance of convincing him. I told him I’d give it a shot, so I sent a letter outlining all the problems we’ve had (caused by their mistakes), the inconvenience we’ve already experienced and will continue to experience (highlighting the stress this has caused my wife – not good for someone with MS), and asking for the new configuration of the doors (6’0 with 2 half sidelights), and a much improved delivery time. Sent the email yesterday, haven’t heard anything yet.
From a contractual point of view, I could tell the sub that he didn’t meet the specs and that I want new doors from the spec’d mfg in the desired configuration, but that wouldn’t be right. Our GC did indicate, however, that he would do whatever was necessary to make it right and makes us happy. If we went down that path, that would likely eat up all of his profit on the job. We’d like to find a solution that gets us the configuration we want, solves the problems with the door sizes, and get the job completed sooner rather than later. Now if the door mfg agrees to my request, we’ve accomplished that, but I suspect they will only agree to provide the the new doors. In which case I may argue they have to replace the sidelights too since the new doors would be too large for the opening, which means they could provide the desired configuration for not much more cost.
OK, I think I thoroughly covered the situation ad nausem, what says this learned community?
Thanks for your insight.
Terry
Replies
I'm remembering why I don't like remodeling for clients.
If I'm doing things for myself on spec, all these decisons are made in and instant, and lived with, with no wringing of hands.
Please understand that I'm not tossing any insults at you, or your contractor...it's just my way of lamenting the situation. I think the adage "Too many cooks spoil the broth" adequately describes this situation.
My only comment is that your desire for having a minumum sized opening seems to be the highest trump card. That explicit minimum standard should have been written onto every contract, order form, and discussed numerous times. Your desire for the exact sized muntins or stiles seems to be the next trump card. This too should have been written, discussed ad nauseum.
Your claim that you couldn't see the product in a showroom sounds a little disengenous. If the configurations were important enough, you could have traveled to the factory or insisted on only using a product that had a showroom available. You could have ordered a sample. You could have studied the spec sheets. You could have built a mock up.
I'm now remembering vividly why I'll never work directly for a homeowner......
Good luck.
blue
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
I'm surprised that any door mfgr would build a door without safety glass. I don't think there's a code anywhere in the country that would allow that.
The rest seems like an easy call to me, assuming you're telling the story right (no offense, but we're getting one side here). the GC had changed the door mfg from the mfg I indicated in the specs. Looks to me like he's on the hook for the cost to make it right. If I had a client specify a certain brand, I would not consider making a change without asking. Maybe the client saw that item ion a magazine and wanted it, not knowing there were other brands ... then making an informed change might work. But in this case you selected a particular brand for a reason.
I think you have two options: get what you originally asked for at no additional cost, or if you decide to make a configuration change be prepared to share in the cost.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
No, Ed, this glass is required to be impact resistant to local hurricane code. Not just plain tempered, which is a standard spec for all full-lite glass doors or sidelites.
Since Andrew, Hugo, and others, the southeast coastal areas have been adopting codes that require exterior glazed openings be done with products that are certified to standards for water infiltration resistance, wind pressure sustainability, and flying debris impact resistance. It began in Miami-Dade, and spread from there.
Glass assemblies for such units go way beyond the standard tempering that all glass door manufacturers do. Laminated glass with special clear film between (like on your windshield) is used, plus special spacer and bedding design in the frames.
And Blue, you are so right about this tale of grief and angst. It sounds like so many horror stories I heard when I was in the door business at Therma-Tru. Problems compound beginning with homeowners with unclear specs, GCs that cannot specify and order doors correctly, lumberyard salesmen who seem to get the details wrong at least half the time, wholesalers that screw up, and the manufacturers that scramble the code numbers.
Any window or door order is a "special order," and you cannot be too careful in doing the specifying and ordering.
I have a 63-count opening order I am getting this year, and it includes windows, slider doors, and hinged doors, both inswing and outswing. With my lumberyard/dealer's OK, I am dealing directly with the specialist at the wholesale distributor, trading details and specs via fax and .pdf/email, signing off on sizing, specs, handing, stile and rail size detail, hardware, etc. My issues need to be resolved clearly before order time.
And to complicate things a little, the slider and hinged doors underwent major design changes since the first submittal, due to the manufacturer opening a new plant in NC and changing all manufacturing of those products to there. You gotta watch out and be sharp in these dealings. Often what you can see in a showroom is not what you will get.
I have learned to proof read door and window orders three or four times - when i am awake and alert. I have come to regard it as a "What is written on the form" thing when it comes to who is going to pay for the screwup. They all get screwed up time to time, but having the knowledgeable rep or sales agent is half the battle. The ones who are not familiar with their own products WILL screw up the orders.tjinfl - I would insist on what is written and specified in your contract - one more change and you agree to participate in the comedy of errors that comes around next.
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I agree with piffin. You have a properly worded p. agrmnt. to fall back on and even though I am a GC and don't like the prospect, It's his baby to fix any way he can.
Ed,
I think you're right about the options unless the mfg.'s COO breaks down and feels responsible for all the misery they've inflicted on us. I'm not holding my breath, but I am hopin'...
Terry