Marvin window problems: is this typical?
Working on my own house. We’re replacing old, leaky, single-page wood windows with double-glazed. Mostly, these are tilt-in units into existing wood frames. Some of the utility windows (laundry room, for instance) have been Jeld-Wen vinyl single-hung or sliders. Very few problems, but not very pretty. For the “public” windows, we wanted something good looking, so ordered, to try out, a Marvin double-hung, purchased through a local contractor’s lumberyard that works with civilians too. The yard deals in Marvin and Anderson; the construction details on the Marvin window were noticeably better than the Anderson details, so we went with that brand.
This window, and several others we have to replace, are big: 4 feet wide, almost 6 feet high. There are also three 3’x6′ windows on the list.
I installed it today, and was not terribly impressed with the quality:
1. Upper sash had two cracks, one caused by very poor wood selection (wild grain right off a knot at one end of the upper rail), one, in the meeting rail, by the sash shifting in transit and getting tangled in the packing materials.
2. Upper and lower sash are offset 1/8″ at the meeting rail when closed, so the latch won’t engage.
3. Screen had two holes in it, one rather large.
I’m confident the lumberyard will do right by us, but we have six other windows to replace, and I don’t want to repeat this six times.
Is this typical, or did I get a window built on Monday right after everyone had a bad weekend? Is there a better brand of wood tilt-in windows than Marvin?
Replies
Marvin Windows are, in my opinion, very nice windows. I chose them over Anderson and Pella, or anything else, for my own home. I've had one or two busted screens but that was caused by the delivery guys. Marvin stands by their windows and I believe they would fix or replace anything that's not right. I would contact Marvin and tell them your problem.
Yes, it is obvious that the defects here are from shipping damage and as with all shipping damages, the right thing to do is to call and report it immediately as soon as it is unwrapped and noted. When one fails to do that, sometimes the yard will say, "Hey, you must have caused this when you installed it yourself."I get a bad window or damage of some sort in about every other house I do. I call immediately and they generally say to go ahead and install it and they will replace the sash separately later if just a sash problem. Sometimes I photograph it for documentation as it is unwrapped and problems discovered.
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This is not typical and you should NOT have installed a defective window. That makes it harder for the seller to do your replacement for free.
The center meeting being off 1/8" could well have been caused by any of a number of errors in the install process.
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Marvins are one of the best out there IMO. I used them on all the additions to my own home and never had a problem. My second choice which is less expensive are Eagle brand windows. More expensive then Andersens by about 25-30% but less then Marvins.
I was really impressed with how Eagle windows are made.
Andersen actually owns Eagle now.
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I started with vinyl windows, so that is what I had to work with. I can't even find the brand name of my existing windows, so when I added some in the bedrooms, I just bought Pella that was a close enough match. I want to add at least two or three more.
I went nuts. My freind who helped me got so frusturated because everything I did was absolute overkill. He was a professional carpenter, I'm a midnight carpenter. Long story short, we ended up replacing about a third of the exterior wall on that side of the house, even though it was absolutely not necessarry. Every fastener I used was stainless, even the housewrap staples, and I must have used two rolls of flashing tape. I didn't use metal pan flashing, I wish that I had, but I did use PT for the top of the doubled up sill plate, and tapped every inch of it at least once...the good tape, not the cheap stuff. I thought my freind was going to strangle me. Even though we were working on a gable end, I treated it as if it was load bearing and underwater. My weekend boss suggested that i just shoot nailers into the sheathing, hang the window, patch the sheetrock, and drink a beer. I built up a 2x4 header, and doubled up every other stud. It took me two days.
Sorry for the hijack, I got on a bit of a tangent there. Marvin is one of the better brands, or so I've always been told. Quality control is always an issue, no matter who you buy from. I read an article about stucco once where a name-brand window (I believe it was a wood framed vinyl unit, but not completely sure) was taped along the bottom sash to create a dam, and water was poured onto it. The window stared leaking at the corner within minutes, not at the tape, but at the very corner inches away. Its really hard to know what you are getting nowadays. I think if you find a good brand that you like, and put forth extra effort to sweat the details, everything will be OK.
Not typical, but it seems like we are seeing blemishes, flaws and other evidence of poor QC (like gobs of cured sealant running down the jamb) more and more lately.
We call these "Friday" windows. An unusually bad one is a "Friday afternoon". A complete and utter reject (which is fortunately rare) is a "Friday afternoon before a three day weekender".
I dont care what the majority says, I regularly steer my clients away from marvin.
yep, I'll get some arguments but I have replaced far too many 10 year old marvins for me to reccomend that brand
most of their problems seem to stem from poor finishing or finish's cracking over checking wood. either way it is poor quality control - year after year
hardly worth the money
Our Marvin wholesaler, SuperMillwork (Cranbury NJ) has a field-quality control program to eliminate this sort of (a) shipping damage issues and/or (b) factory QC issues.
Marvin stands behind their product and ought to here as well. You do get some variation but they still are the best windows out there short of the 'very high end' (Zeluck etc.).
Jeff
Thanks, all. I've been in contact with the salesman at the contractor's yard, who is on it. It looks like we'll be able to get the screen and the upper sash replaced and, in the process, resolve all the problems except the time I spent photographing and documenting them.I've asked for the yard to instruct the delivery crew for the new sash to install them - on a 4x6 foot window, double-pane sash are HEAVY.
Kind of off the topic, but Bill Marvin, the patriarch of the Marvin family, passed away yesterday:
Bill Marvin, who oversaw decades of growth at Marvin Windows and Doors, died Monday morning at his home in Warroad. He was 92.
Marvin started working for his family’s lumber business, Marvin Lumber and Cedar Co., in 1939. He pushed the company to focus exclusively on windows and doors, and rose to the rank of chairman and president in 1960.
Under his leadership, Marvin Window and Doors grew every year except 1961, when its Warroad factory burned to the ground, according to a company press release. Warroad is on the northern tip of the state, about six miles from the Canadian border and about 350 miles from the Twin Cities.
When Marvin joined the company, he was the eighth employee. Today, there are about 5,000.
The Business Journal estimated Marvin Windows’ 2008 revenue at $500 million, making it Minnesota’s 48th-largest private company.
Marvin’s father, George, founded the lumber company in 1912. Bill Marvin’s daughter, Susan, now serves as president and his son, Jake, is the CEO.
I've met both Frank and Susan - they are good people :o)
Too bad about Bill.
Why I will not buy Marvin Window Products and neither should you.
In 2004 we renovated our kitchen, replacing three windows and one door with Marvin Windows. At the time we purchased Marvin because I felt they were high quality. Marvin’s website says, “We are committed to design that is as functional and intuitive as it is beautiful. Crafted with exceptional skill, our products deliver quality you can see, touch, and feel, the beauty that brings joy, and performance that stands the test of time.“
My view of the ‘test of time’ for windows that I put in my home is a long time, decades. Apparently, Marvin’s test is dramatically shorter. Less than 20 years after installation I noticed that the window had rotted all the way through the frame. I am not sure how many years it took to decay, but clearly it did not happen overnight. Their test of time failed quickly. I called Marvin and was told that the warranty is only 10 years.
I understand how warranties work and asked for Marvin’s help repairing the window. They said they would not offer any help since they no longer make the model. I called dozens of companies and was told these Marvin windows were not repairable. I am left with one window out of six that failed out of warranty but clearly started failing years ago before the warranty had expired. I now need to replace all of my kitchen windows in order to have a consistent look.
I thought that maybe this is a one-time issue and not very widespread. It turns out Marvin lost a class action lawsuit on this very issue. https://www.yourlawyer.com/construction-defects/marvin-windows-lawsuit/. Apparently, their product team feels they can continue to turn out products that do not stand the test of time.
Marvin’s marketing department may tell you they are committed to a lot of things but it is clearly a lot of marketing and they do not stand behind the actual quality of their windows. So when you look to purchase windows for your home my strong recommendation is to look at anyone other than Mavin.
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most of their problems seem to stem from poor finishing or finish's cracking over checking wood. https://techzpod.com/ https://get-mobdrovip.com