How high can a flange be above the finished floor?
Replace a tile/mud job floor in a bathroom. Built around 1970. Had an old 4 bolt toilet. That is NOW being replaced because the HO was demo the old floor and got too close to the toilet before I removed it.
The old toilet was set with what appears to be dried up plumbers puddy and there was a lot under the flang also.
The bottom of the flange is 1 1/2″ above the joist.
The best that I can tell the old floor was 1 1/4″. Don’t have any exact reference points, but a coule of things point to that height and there was about 1/4″ of gunt under the flange.
And the replace would be about the same ( 3/4″ subfloor, 1/4″ hardibacker, 1/4″ tile + 1/8″ or so for thinset).
Would a new toilet set on a flange that high without problems?
It is a cast iron flange over lead pipe and just below led drains cut in that come from the sink and tub. I don’t want to mess with them AT ALL.
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The "ideal" height for the flange is sitting on top of the finished floor. This means the top surface of the flange is about 1/4" or 5/16" proud of the floor surface.
How much higher you can go beyond that depends on the particular toilet, but probably 1/2" total is as much as you can hope for.
When dealing with a high flange, don't use a wax ring with any sort of built-in horn or reenforcement -- they take up too much space.
Just as important as flange height is getting the tile flat where the toilet will go. And when the flange is high it's doubly important to have the toilet totally supported/shimmed so that it doesn't rock at all.
I'm glad to be reading this thread. I had an issue with a toilet that, according to the HO, would "leak" after about two months.
I never saw it leak, but took their word for it, pulled the toilet, checked everything carefully, and re-set it.
Two months later, same call. I even shimmed it and sealed it with silicone.
It was one great mystery. I offered to give him all his money back from all previous work and have him call someone else in (a fresh perspective from a new set of eyes). He declined the refund, but called someone else I recommended.
Still don't know what's up? Any ideas?
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Too much grunge at 50?
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A bird does not sing because it has an answer. A bird sings because it has a song.
Odds are good that the toilet was rocking. Heavy dude? Spongy floor?
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
The toilet was rocking, but I shimmed it and sealed it....................then got the call about a leak. The floor was concrete slab.
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DanH is correct re the heights...if you are too low you could use 2 wax rings, with the upper one having the horn. Not ideal though. BTW - I've found neoprene gaskets (or maybe they're rubber) the best thing for tiled floors...very often the toilet will rock, and once th wax gets unstuck from the horn or flange it'll never stick back.
All the best...
To those who know - this may be obvious. To those who don't - I hope I've helped.
".if you are too low you could use 2 wax rings, with the upper one having the horn."Too LOW is not the problem here."BTW - I've found neoprene gaskets (or maybe they're rubber) the best thing for tiled floors...very often the toilet will rock, and once th wax gets unstuck from the horn or flange it'll never stick back."I did use one of those where some one installed tile over the existing floor without any thought about the toilet. Raised it about 1/2 and tried the double wax bit. But 9 months later it was leaking.And no one lived in it the whole time.
A nasty - but sometimes necessary - solution to too high a can is to make a plywood platform to the same profile as the base, paint it the colour of the can, and seal well with silicone.
As for the mystery of the leaking dbl ring - you got me there.All the best...
To those who know - this may be obvious. To those who don't - I hope I've helped.
Corain is great for this IF you need 1/2".Off hand I can't think of a readily available 1/4" plastic.
1/2'' instead of 1/4'' cement board?A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
I might go that way 1/2", but I was hoping to go with 1/4" for ease of handling.Specially since I know that it will require handling several times to get a good fit around the tub.The other option would be to go two layers of plywood 3/8 and 5/8 instead of the 3/4".
"Corain is great for this IF you need 1/2".Off hand I can't think of a readily available 1/4" plastic."
Corian comes in 1/4" -- used for tub surrounds. Pretty expensive for a toilet shim, though! ; -)
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
ONYX Sheet panels, I've made one in the past to correct a few problems, one of which was the flange was too tall.
They vary from between 5/16 - 3/8"
If the 1/4" measurement was absolutely critical the back of the panel could be belt sanded down fairly easily.
I would not recommend plywood.
Incidentally, I have a few scraps of ONYX in roughly the same color as the picture I attached in the previous message, if it works I could send it off to you gratis
To BillHartman: one of the other posts is right, the flange should be flush with the finished floor. As far as the lead drains are concerned, pray!
flush with as
1. the BOTTOM of the flange is on the floor?
or
2. the flange is inset in the floor so that the TOP of the flange is even with the floor level.
The bottom of the flange should sit flush with the floor, the distance above the floor is the thickness of the flange. Luck.
A plumber in another forum that has worked on older houses said that the lead is usually still workable.The lead just comes up through the flange and is beat over it.But some times due a bulge will form below the flange in the lead pipe.Put a worm hose clamp around it just below the flange and tighten VERY GENTLY.Then started tapping on the flange with a small hammer going around it.It broke loose for about 2/3 of the way around. The other 3rd it started to bulge, up on top of the ring. So I know that with a little more gentle work I can get it fee enough to reset at the right height.Part of which is some cutting with a utility knife.BTW, I foudn that the flange was brass, not cast iron as I though.Also because I had to cut out too much of the new sub-floor in the area of the flage to get in past the flange I an not going to run backer board and tile under the flange. Becasue there won't be anything to screw into.Rather I am going to cut some plywood equal to the heght of the backer and tile and glue and screw that to the sub-floor and then I will have somethign to screew the flange into.
Soak the plywood real good in some sort of sealer/preservative.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
Ended up using some Corian that I had.I got hardibacker down.I need some way to manage the thinset.Boy that stuff is sticky. By the time that I got done I had I all over the tools including the handles.
Years ago I used to help my father on plumbing jobs, [1950] lead pipe was passe then. The skill to work with it was disapearing. Lead pipe deteriorates from the inside out, looks good from the outside, but there is no wall left. The brass flange is supposed to be soldered to the lead pipe. Years ago if a customer would not let me rip it out I would do a jerry-rig with a zero guarantee. "May the force be with you".
"lead pipe was passe then. The skill to work with it was disapearing."Not here. This house was build in 69 or 70."Lead pipe deteriorates from the inside out, looks good from the outside, but there is no wall left.lead pipe was passe then. The skill to work with it was disapearing. Lead pipe deteriorates from the inside out, looks good from the outside, but there is no wall left."The walls of the toilet part are perfectly clean and goo shape. Could not see in the part for the side drains, but they where good at the connnection.
All I can do Bill is to tell you my experance with lead pipe, this is not gospel, they were also using galve. water pipe in the 70s it was passe also. What I would suggest is that you look down your closet pipe with a flashlight and if you see any protrusions from the inside of the pipe, then you have deterioration in the pipe. If you want to continue your plan make sure that the flange is screwed down to the floor. Lots of luck.