I am adding a bathroom and would like a shower with maximum volume and pressure. Some questions? Is straight tubing more powerful than going thru lots of bends? Would it be better to connect closer to the street? Would using a ¾â€ pipe directly to a shower manifold (if they exist) be better than sleeving to ½â€? I think using separate controls will allow me to use maximum cold water and maybe turning up my water heater to compensate in mixing. Thanks.
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You just need a little pump to boost the pressure.
This one will do that also heat the water.
And you can use it for a steam bath also.
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200324565_200324565
That wasn't very nice or helpful Bill... not like you at all.
You didn't even explain where to put the start switch. Not to mention venting the exhaust.
No doubt a plumber will be along shortly kyrral to give you proper advice ;)
Sorry.The next time I will be more "helpfull".They do have an electric model so that he would not need to worry about the exhaust. But I don't think that it will do steam, but it does include a heater.
Sheesh Bill... you of all people, an elec heater in the shower? Talk about floating grounds.
an elec heater in the shower? Talk about floating grounds
Dunno, if he were better known for his propane plumbing skills, I might be a tad more surprised <g> . . .
Really, though, he does have a point, you can add a small local heater (like tucked under the vanity counter, or, as I saw once, in the head-knocker/furr-down over the commode) rather than replumbing all the way back to the existing WH.
The commercial heaters are pretty slick, and it's much easier to route conductors to them than gas pipe & exhausts are.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Heck, I love it. That's a definite on my list for the next bathroom remodel.....Kind of reminds me of the Seinfeld episode with Kramer and the showerhead!
Go onto the Grohe web site and pay close attention to the section "designing a custom shower". It will be the best info you could ever ask for.
You had better think hard on your water heater. I installed a 60 and it's not enough.
I'm running 3/4 feed lines from the water manifolds to 3/4 mixing then into 3, 3/4 shower valves @ 55PSI. 2 body sprays on 1 valve, 3 body sprays on another, then 2 shower heads. The flow is great. It's enjoying it so much that sucks up the full tank of water.
"Would it be better to connect closer to the street?"
Perhaps directly to the hydrant?
I honestly don't understand the infatuation with multiple-head, high volume "shower experiences". What a tremendous waste of resources...
A well-designed, 2.5 gpm "rain"-type shower head will get you plenty wet AND you'll be able to enjoy the experience for a nice long time before you drain the hot water tank. How much wetter do you need to get?
BTW, a 3/4" thermostatic valve (many manufacturers make them) will provide all the flow rates that anyone could ever require. If you're really concerned about it you could run 3/4" all the way 'til it fans out to the individual heads.
Guess you're not into the "green building" thing, heh?
Green my butt.
When I spend the kind of money that I did on my own project you can bet that I'm going to enjoy it... Along with my wife in the shower too. The water I take comes from the ground that I bought and built on. it works well with my big lawn and all of my trees.
What I save I burn in my boat, my snowmobile, and my truck. Or I'm spending it on heating my hot water.... with propane.
It's clear that you never spent any time in such a shower. Some folks get a kick out of cold showers or sometimes only get wet with clean soap and water once a week. Enjoy life, this ain't no dress rehearsal.
I love taking a shower with my wife. Do I want it to be a hurricane? Wake-up, a nice gentle or very hot rain type of shower is better!!!!!!
You must be under 30......things change when you are 60!
.......................Iron Helix
Not that young but not that old! LOL (:
Hey, I think I just did my first smiley thing!
I caught the end of a program on MANSIONS ( 7 Best or sumpthing) and this one dude named Jones outside of Indy has a shower called DELUGE and I kid you not, 300 GPM of recycled water, he says it'll knock you down if you aren't prepared.
Now THAT is a shower.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
I have irriatable Vowel syndrome.
- Ah, that's Scott Jones. I've heard to him referred to as the "inventer of voice mail." That sounds a bit like Al Gore inventing the Internet, but nevertheless, he apparently held a number of patents related to voice mail technology that have made him millions.
I've seen his house on TV shows and in the newspaper. It's as high tech as they come, but the first piece that I saw on his house that really caught my attention was a picture of his staircase on the back of a FHB issue a 2-3 years ago. The custom curving staircase features an adult-sized, all-wood slide in additon to the usual stair steps. Hard to describe, but words wouldn't do it justice anyway. . . pretty awesome.
Yup, thats him. COOL house.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
I have irriatable Vowel syndrome.
damn 300gpm?
Just don't bend over with your arse facing the shower head(s) I guess...
Yeah, 300 GPM. Somehow it recycles the water from what I heard.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
I have irriatable Vowel syndrome.
Mental note: Don't pee in the shower when you're in one of those.
People never lie so much as before an election, during a war, or after a hunt. --Otto von Bismarck
LMAO! How sad, but true.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
I have irriatable Vowel syndrome.
I have never enjoyed any shower I've taken under a lo-flow head.
SamT
Sam, I'm not a hydrolic engineer but.....
I have "adequate" pressure/volume whatever from my standard Moen showerhead but I like a vigorous shower. Just feels good.
I disassembled my showerhead and all I could see was the water had to go thru a somewhat small hole. That's probably how they restricted the flow to <2.5 gpm.
I took a 9/64 drill and drilled it out. WHAT A DIFFERENCE ! Super flow ie pressure/volume whatever. Wish it hadn't taken my 5 years to figger that out.
Kyrral,
No way you have kids! I have four. I yell every day to hurry up and get out of the shower! My water bill and electric bill is outrageous!
I have five kids. They share two bathrooms with low-flow Speakman heads in their bathroom, which provide excellent pressure at low volume. You don't notice the low flow rates that much. My wife and I have a shower with two heads plumbed with 1/2" PEX home-run directly from a hot water manifold, which happens to be directly under the shower. One showerhead is a dual Speakman head, the other is a handheld shower. We couldn't honestly ask for better shower conditions, and 7.5 GPM is more than enough. The kids' bathrooms are also homerun with 1/2" PEX to the same central manifold. The water tank is 41 gallons, but we heat with an outdoor wood boiler which provides nearly unlimited HW at 180 degrees when it's at full burn.
Showers should be functional but relaxing and enjoyable as well. Can't go through life hating your shower.
VAVince said: "No way you have kids! I have four. I yell every day to hurry up and get out of the shower! My water bill and electric bill is outrageous!"
LOL! I used to have the same problem. When I was remodeling our bathroom (only one in the house at the time), the door was off for a while while I made a new one. I noticed that my kids' showers went from about 30 minutes to about 3 minutes! I admit that after noticing that, I wasn't as quick as I could have been in getting the door back on. <G>
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Do you want pressure, volume, or force?
Force is how hard the water hits your skin. This is largely a function of the shower head design. Larger holes, eg, won't always produce more force.
Be aware that many shower heads are shipped with a restrictor installed. Often this can be easily removed (though removing it doesn't always make that much difference).
Volume isn't important so long as there's enough that you don't have a significant pressure drop at the connection to the shower head, when compared to static pressure. High volume through restricted plumbing reduces pressure. Lowering the volume (with a more restrictive shower head) will increase shower head pressure and can result in higher force, vs a shower head that's less restrictive.
Bigger pipes and fewer elbows (almost) always results in less restriction, allowing a higher delivered pressure for a given flow rate. The trick is to not waste money on enlarging pipes that won't make any difference.
Keep in mind that at high flow rates you can have as significant difference in the delivered pressure of hot vs cold, resulting in unstable temperature control.
Some great points there Dan. Nice analysis of the issues.
But I have one question no one seems to have addressed. Everyone's talking about supply, but no one seems to have considered the drain.
If you pump gallons and gallons of water into a shower area in a short period of time couldn't it exceed the flow rate of the average sized drain at the bottom of the tub/shower pan?
I hate it when my drain needs a cleaning out - I know it cause I find that I'm taking a shower while standing in water up to my ankles (with a wife and 3 daughters, it seems to happen quickly and especially when I've been away for a few days). A greater volume of water would only seem to mimic or worsen that feeling.
So, are there special tubs or shower pans that you need if you're going to install a mega-shower with multiple jets of water and increased volume?Griff
"So, are there special tubs or shower pans that you need if you're going to install a mega-shower with multiple jets of water and increased volume?"
I wondered the same thing when this post started. After reading the recent article on shower systems in a recent FHB, I was a little surprised to see that many required 3/4" supply lines -- that's over 2X the flow rate. Since I was in the market for something to put in my new shower, I investigated further. Some of the more water-hungry units require 3" drains as opposed to the normal 2" (or 1 1/2" for a tub) drain line. That's a lotta drain!
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
If ya gotta lot of water, ya gotta have a lot of drain!
Might not be much of a problem if you're in a tub with its high sides (as long as the drain is draining properly), but a shower pan has but a couple of inches of freewall before things get messy.
Glad to see that someone has anticipated the problem and has a solution. Suppose that complicates things in a renovation - swapping out drain lines to a larger size. But, worth it.
Thanks.Griff
I have the second largest shower (head count) I've seen. The other has 1 more body spray but much more flow. To date (16 years) there has never been a problem with the standard 1 1/2 inch drain. This of course does not mean that if the drain fills up with "ikkies" you will will be ankle deep. At the first sign of a slow drain I pour in Draino anyway and let it sit for 24 hours.
I also prefer the copper pan plus a brushable membrane. Leaks from the shower to the ceiling below are a bummer.
Yes, 3/4" would be a good idea. Also, consider using two water heaters in series. That way you have more volume, and a longer time before the temp starts to decline.
-- J.S.
Using one of the new large "rainsoaker" type shower heads is a compleely different experience. I too normally shower with my wife, and this is like a solid wall coming down, vs. the pinpoint spritz from a high velocity head. No piping changes needed!
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Your federal government is looking out for you they establised a flow rate for showerheads. Because I have a license, I can't legally tell you to remove or drill a bigger hole in this little piece of plastic that is normally found inside the female fitting where it attaches to the supply pipe.
Make sure you take apart the shower head and remove the flow restrictor.
Does the government regulate the flow of showerheads??
"Does the government regulate the flow of showerheads??"
Yup, the same folks who run the Army, Post Office and Railroads ! ! !