I was just lurking in that other forum and someone there mentioned the terms MDF and upscale house in the same sentence. I personally consider those to be oxymorons. Maybe if there is no outside physical contact made with the mdf or no moisture occurs in the vicinity.
Maybe I’m just old fashion
Replies
What was the context? I think there are many applications where MDF works great, even for "upscale" situations.
PaulB
http://www.finecontracting.com
Well, the subject certainly provoked response!I can see the relavance using mdf for panels and crown. I think my concerns are for casing and baseboard. Those areas that are easily subjected to bruising. I guess when I think of upscale I'm thinking more along the lines of stain grade hardwoods.
I think my concerns are for casing and baseboard. Those areas that are easily subjected to bruising.
Maybe there's a regional difference or something. I live on the west coast, and out here, MDF has a rather high surface hardness. It doesn't "bruise" easily at all. Like I said in an earlier post, I've hit test pieces of MDF with a hammer, and in my experience it was LESS vulnerable than fir or hemlock.
However, I'm always trying to learn from people's experience -- the real world is always much better at showing what really happens than a test lab. With that in mind, have you seen MDF get all ratty after a number of years or something like that?
Thanks,
Ragnar
-With that in mind, have you seen MDF get all ratty after a number of years or something like that?-Yes. After a period of years the surface can become scuffed. Corners dented.I guess that is ok. The society we live in will tear down instead of build for the long haul and then preserve that structure for the next 2 or 3 generations.
I like MDF as well. I used it on my house. Casing, and baseboard heat covers. I used poplar for my baseboard.
MDF is quite affordable too, is has made my house look "upscale" for a fraction of the cost of wood trim. Thoughts determine what you want,Action determines what you get
Here is my window casing, it's mostly MDF. THe neck moulding on top of the headcasing is poplar the rest is MDF.
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My baseboard heat covers are also made out of MDF, I had some left over material and gave it a shot. It takes router bits great, holds a sharp profile. I used a rail and stile bit for cabinet doors on it.
View ImageThoughts determine what you want,Action determines what you get
The casings do look good. I enjoy that style.How much did you mill and how much was stock?
I got alot of stock for trimming out probably 8-10 windows, one door, my register covers, and 200' of 6" tall victorian baseboard for under $200.
I milled up the register covers out of left over MDF scraps.
On the windows the sills are milled 3/8" roundover bit top and bottom and a curved return to the wall. And the headcasing gets a 4-1/2" piece of flat stock. I just bought a sheet of 3/4" MDF for these pieces.
THe rest are stock moldings at a local millwork shop. Thoughts determine what you want,Action determines what you get
We do pretty upscale work, and use mdf all the time. It makes superior paint grade panels for recessed panel cabinet doors and passage doors, or for paint grade panelled wainscoting. Moisture resistant mdf (medex) makes better paint-grade beadboard for wainscoting in bathrooms than solid wood because it doesn't get gaps like wood.
We wouldn't use it for baseboard, casing, or crown though.
"This is a process, not an event."--Sphere
And I'm a legitimate certifiable Tool Whore.--Dieselpig
"or crown though."
why?
U climbing up and kicking yer crown ...
then hosing it down?
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
You know, as I was writing that, I was thinking...we don't use it for casing or base because it would get beat up...and we just haven't used it for crown yet. Mostly poplar, some pine, occasionally stain-grade. Do you use it for crown? Is it available in pretty shapes?
"This is a process, not an event."--Sphere
And I'm a legitimate certifiable Tool Whore.--Dieselpig
Yup ... use it for crown all the time.
I fit the material to the particular job. Last crown job ... had a helper ... but ... it was in a furnished LR and DR ... and both had big pieces of furniture ... which we hoped to not have to move.
so ... I went with pine ... as the MDF woulda "flopped" over the furniture.
with pine ... and a ladder/guy on each side ... we could set it ... and reach in ... and nail it off. MDF would have required 2 hands ... one to hold ... one to nail.
Time I prefer MDF are old plaster houses ... as the MDF is easier to bend and work into place ... makes for a tighter initial fit ... smaller gaps to caulk in.
I also don't mind it for base/casing though ... all depends on the specific situation. But never in a bath or kitchen ... try to avoid it in an enter hall ... kids play room ... etc. Places where it will get beat up.
I definitely use way more MDF crown vs any other MDF trim though.
and MDF crown vs pine/FJ is pretty close to 50/50.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Do you use it [MDF] for crown? Is it available in pretty shapes?
I can get MDF in lots of profiles, and of course it can be custom milled, too.
The only applications that I avoid is where water might be an issue. For example, I've seen MDF baseboard swell when it was installed next to a tub. I've also seen bad things happen to "exterior" MDF, so I just avoid it there, too.
...we don't use it for casing or base because it would get beat up...
I don't really follow you (or Jeff Buck) here. How exactly does it get "beat up"? I've kicked and beat the hell out of MDF just for testing purposes and had no problems with it whatsoever. In fact, it seems more resilient than softwoods, in my opinion. The only possible thing that I might be concerned with is an outside miter on a base. But then again, that's always a vulnerable location, even for solid wood.
How exactly does it get "beat up"? I've kicked and beat the hell out of MDF just for testing purposes and had no problems with it whatsoever. In fact, it seems more resilient than softwoods, in my opinion. The only possible thing that I might be concerned with is an outside miter on a base. But then again, that's always a vulnerable location, even for solid wood.
Outside corners are what I'd be most worried about. I always use poplar base which holds up pretty well.
"This is a process, not an event."--Sphere
And I'm a legitimate certifiable Tool Whore.--Dieselpig
How do you prevent the fuzzy edge when you paint the raised panels in MDF?
To prevent fuzzy edges w/ MDF I have used spackle then sanded it (with a sanding sponge for curved r. panels).
TWG
Thank you TWG.
Note that he said, "It makes superior paint grade panels for recessed panel cabinet doors"
The recessed panel doesn't have a machined edge (like a raised panel), so I don't think the fuzzy edge is an issue.
MDF can have it's place in an upscale house. A little over a year ago, I did these doors and false frawer front for a San Francisco victorian house. The false drawer front and door panels are MDF. The door rails and stiles are poplar.
Are those doors Mills Pride doors? they kinda look it.
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I'm old fashioned, too; but I still think that MDF can have a relly good spot in upscale construction, as long as you treat it as what it is.
I really can't see investing in straight-grain paint-grade lumber for a window that's going to get three layers of window treatments, for one.
Trim much more than 12-13' above the floor, and painted makes a good spot for a nice solid material, too.
MDF makes a very solid casework carcass, too.
Back in '72 I worked in a factory that produces mdf. Nasty smelling place untill you got used to the formaldihide and urea used in the glue. Maybe that experience is what has set me against the product.
Back in '72 I worked in a factory that produces mdf.
Fast forward 35 years. The green signs on Interstates are mdf. Either Medite or Medex. Todays mdf is flat, consistant thickness, only thing I use for upscale veneer work.
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Medex is hard to beat for high end veneer and marquetry work. Dead flat and very water resistant.
I thought the highway signs were made from MDO or HDO. Most of the new ones I see are a metal panel of some kind.
We use tons of MDF on our casework and veneer work as well. I've been using it in the trimwork on my house as well.
I can check with the sign crew today. There might be a size issue determining which material is used.
The head of the sign crew said the material used depends on what manufacturer got the contract. Most are now aluminum or steel.
in paint grade applications, we use mdf, primed pine clear, primed pine FJ, poplar, meranti.
baseboard in general gets banged up.. mdf is no worse than pine in that respect...
if it's wet enough to swell mdf, there is usually a major repair called for anyways.
my favorite basebaord is 5 1/2" mdf speedbase Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Thanks, I was thinking aluminum based on a small sign program I was involved in. The newer signs you see here around Boston are mill finisl AL on the backs. It's amazing how big some of those signs can get.
Most of those signs I have seen are MDO, not MDF
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We just did a 1.6 million dollar house, it was loaded with MDF bead board, all but one bath, all vanity tops were splashless, just MDF BB, rear entry & mud room, large bonus room above garage. As trim carpenters we were disgusted by this. Then one day while we were working I told all the guys, Hey, This is the high end OLD GROWTH MDF, Now that's quality!!
I consider most of my work to be upscale and would not think of MDF for most situations. One place where the customer insisted on it for crown, I conceded there since I reconed she could not hurt it that high up. She saved about $100 in the whole house that way, vs pine crown, but then when she overflowed a bath and the water seeped through from above, it cost her more than that to repair the swollen MDF - for just that one instance.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Yeah, there is nothing upscale about straight, pretty and uniform wood that paints well.