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I am new to homebuilding. I have experience with quality automotive hand tools and some power tools. I am a DIY’er and want to build up my tool collection – slowly per need. In the past when I bought tools, I purchased too many tools I did not need. For example, sets of sockets, and various wrenches with too many types, and sizes I never used, and that was a costly mistake.
I have some carpenter tools but need more. Right now I am concentrating on home repair only, as I learn more about homebuilding. I need to purchase some measuring tools: Carpenters/Framing square, Try square, Combination square, Speed square, bevel gauge, marking gauge, and chalk line.
Can anyone tell me what I should get in these types of tool, such as the better material for a particular tools function and durability, whether it is something that I need the best quality of, or a tool that will work fine in a lower quality, as the price range is from several dollars to well over a hundred dollars. I imagine that I need a good quality level, but what size is best, 48″? (I like the Starrett, aluminum, adjustable block vials).
But what about framing squares – quality level needed, material (steel, aluminum, wood, plastic) and brands?
Combo square – same question?
Speed square – same question?
Bevel gauge – same question?
Marking gauge – same question?
Chalk line – same question?
I do not want to purchase any tools of inferior material or performance quality. Example, bargain basement imported Taiwan tools. Sears Craftsman, Local hardware store bargain tools. I am uncertain about the quality of some Stanley tools. Some seem good and some seem lousy. On the other hand, I do not need any high end, ultra precision, fine wood working tools, that go into hundreds and thousands of dollars. As I mentioned before, I am doing repairs, demolition, rough carpentry, with some finish carpentry when needed, but almost no fine woodworking, except for applying stains and finishes. I am looking for lower high end, of industrial quality tools. Starrett, and Brown & Sharpe are good examples of the quality range in measuring tools that I think are good values, good quality, and a good price (when found on sale somewhere).
I know this was winded but when I just ask short simple questions I never really get the nitty gritty details.
Thank you, Rob
PS. I do not have any confusion about power tools and other hand tools, home building supplies, or how to do a particular job. It just occurred to me that I had the same problem when I needed to buy automotive measuring tools.
Replies
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RBR,
For a good combination square I would go with a starrett with all three heads, framing square stanley alu.45-011 or ss 45-021. A 24" and 48" level are nice to have, stabila looks like a good product, I've never owned one. Top of the line stanley chalk line, swanson speed square,stanley bevel and marking gage. Check out tool crib, seven corners ace hwd., and woodcraft for places to order from.
Make the sawdust fly Bill
*I would definately reccomend the gear driven chalk lines. I have a red and a blue in my box, for when I have to make a correction. You also might want to put your plumb bob on a chalk box too (just a regular one is fine), very easy to use alone that way, since the body of the chalk box will act as a counter weight, and much neater in your tool box.Oh yeah, and get a cheap water level and figure out how to use it. Invaluable. - jb
*Spend the extra money for Stabila or Starrett levels. (I really like Stabila) Well worth it. Do not buy plastic levels, speed squares, or framing squares. Most of the stanley stuff should prove adequate for you, given your less than precision quality demands. They are fairly solid, reliable tools in general but I prefer others.One thing I spend more on his good quality chisels, though you may get by with Buck Bros. or equivalent here. I'd stay away from Stanley, Sears etc. for chisels.If you buy drywall tools, spend more to get better quality, stainless tools. And buy the best "drywall" (48") square you can afford. The cheaper ones are flimsier and won't hold square very long even if you don't drop it (you will).Check your squares now and then, no matter who makes them- they can easily get out of whack.You probably won't waste too much money on hand tools. If you do buy something slightly inferior, it can always be used on some dirty job.Could go on, and on...Hope it did some
*Scott, I am the guy who asked the question about leveling tools. You said you liked other tools besides Stanley. I would really like to know what measuring tools you like. I certainly understand the need for good quality tools in other areas besides measuring. Perhaps I have underestimated their importance in carpentry. When I did automotive work I always bought very good industrial quality tools.I am willing to get the same quality in carpentry tools. But I just don't have the carpentry knowledge to know what tools I need the best in and which ones can be of lesser quality. I other words, sometimes you can use less costly tools that work and last as well as the more expensive ones - sometimes but not always. Examples are difficult to muster up at the moment. But lets say that perhaps a Stanley 2 lb. drilling hammer will work as well as a more expensive Nupla or Vaughan drilling. There are other examples. My thinking was that with some carpentry tools that I might not use very often, I could get by without the best. Lets see, take a pointing trowel for instance. Home Depot and the local hardware sell them for $1.50 to $3.50 (all under $5.00). The brand is usually Barco. But Marshalltown pointing trowels go for $17.00, at wholesale contractor prices, and even higher in retail stores. Why should I buy one at that price when all I have to do is a one time small mortar repair job? But if I was buying plastering trowels, I would get the better stainless steel ones as you suggested - on that I agree, because there is a performance reason for getting the better plastering trowels. Same for bricklaying, and stone masonry trowels.Now if there are other reasons, like I will need it again, or a better trowel will work better then I need to know that. Essentially, I guess my thinking is, should all my tools no matter what they are, be the best, or can I get by with certain tools being the best, and others of a lesser quality, and do as well in my work? I need to know what you think about this?Thanks, RobPS. I recently bought both Stanley and Buck brand chisels and both of them had chips on the cutting edge after I used them just a small amount. I think I need something like a Sorby Heavy Duty Registered chisel for taking out large amounts of stock all at once. Any recommendations? I heard the Swiss make very good chisels but I have no idea of the brand name or how to contact the Swiss manufacturers?
*It all will depend on how much you plan to use them. Squares and levels go for the best. Trowels or other tools that aren't used as often moderated priced will do fine. For rough carpentry stanley chisel are fine. A lot depends on what you are trying to cut or chop out, if its a hard knotty piece try a little steeper angle on your chisel. I have some framing chisels sharpened at 30 deg for hard tuff work and some at 25 deg for finer work. This is part of learning the job, whats the right tool for the job at hand.www.woodcraft.com has a good selection of chisels, sorby, crown, pfeil(swiss), marples, and woodcraft brand. regardsBill
*I've always bought tools as I needed them.
*Lee Valley Tools (www.leevalley.com) has an excellent offering of measuring tools; they often have a couple of price/quality ranges to choose from, and describe pretty well what the differences are between the $10 thingammy and the $20 one. Always my first stop.Jim; the tip about the chalk line/plumb bob: brilliant! Gonna do it.
*Rob, #1 Stabilla for levels, 10'' torpedo and 48'' I beam for a start #2 Marples shatterproof chisels, you can hit them hard with a hammer #3 Johnson speed square, #4 Stanley-Rabone combination squre, well acurate and not that costleyTake a chance on some low end tools, I recently purchased a block plane that was made in India for about $8 (left my $60 Record at home and had to finish a job)its probably the best small block plane I have ever usedJim
*Hey Rob, I was thinkin' about your question today and there is a bit of a difference in tape measures that I always look for. You know that hook that is rivited to the end of your tape? Well a lot of those are shaped in such a way that it's really hard to read the 5/16,3/8,7/16,1/2" lines between zero and 1". Just a little thing that might help you avoid some frustration. - jb
*RBR, add a Johnson 48 inch Brassbound Mahogany "Mason's Level" to your list. Mucho tough, and remain true. Next, get a good book on tool sharpening, some stones based upon what your needs are (not every job warrants a 6000 grit stone), and a Lee Valley angle setting sharpening jig.All are available from mail order sources if need be.
*Jim's says things I agree with here. So I'll add this; Stabila levels are the bomb, love my 6' stabila for doors. Steel framing squares are adjustable with a hammer and most squares need adjustment at least once in their life. Some speed squares are not dimensioned on both sides as most people prefer.Joe
*Anybody have experience with Chalkline lazer levels?
*An excellent tool for measuring things like stud s and wall to wall distances is the plain old painters extention pole. I have one with a six sided aluminum insert which I use to measure six studs at a time. Just put the butt on the floor and extend the insert up to the ceiling and make a mark for each stud numbered 1 through 6 then transfer the measurements to the studs and cut. Get a marker that rubs off easy and you`re ready to go again. You can also use this thing for painting.
*Rob, I read with interest your questions about purchasing good tools. After spending over 25 years in the masonrytrades I've used many different brands of spirit levels. Iwas dissapointed time and time again because most didn't hold up or they didn't stay true very long. Most of yourso called "mason levels" warped and could not be turned around to give you the same reading on the opposite side.Others just didn't make it! About 10 years ago (in search of the best level I could find), I ordered a Smith level.I am still using it with fantastic results. Although it is showing it's age, you can turn it anyway you want to get thesame readings! I'll stick with Smith as long as the qualityis there. They might not be the best level for a carpenter,but for a bricklayer you can't beat them. One more thing,it has been my experience to avoid colored vials because insome conditions the bubble is hard to see. For level lengths may I suggest first a 48" and then a 24". For a review of levels see Fine Homebuilding Magazine - July 1998 No. 117 Pages 60-65. It is an excellent article. Good luck!
*why is it that all of the tape measures I can find are what I consider left-handed. Whenever you hook the end over the edge of something and extend the tape with your left hand past the place you want to mark, and then use your right hand to make the mark. This puts the printed numbers upside down. I've watched people over the years, and nearly everyone measures this way. I've looked for a version where the numbers are printed the other way. Never could find one.
*Hey Randy, Stanley made one up until a couple years ago. I was lucky enough to find one in a hardware store. It reads in both directions.Stanley claims they stopped making it because it was too confusing to read. In my opinion I wish they still made em.
*in regards to the right-to-left tape question, Veritas makes them in 10, 25, and 30 foot versions. i just ordered a shortie today, so i can't compare quality with professional grade tapes. the 10'x 3/4" was only $3.50 though. in regards to the message about putting your plumb on a chalk reel. there is an excellent plumb bob reel made by mullens, a company in idaho. it has slots in the top to hang from a dry line, and an integral nail spike/striking surface so it can be pounded into a stud. the reel is under tension so it will support a heavy plumb without the line slipping. you can also get a plate to hang it magnetically. i love it, got it at hardwicks. pricier than a chalk box, but has some nice features...
*Yeah, but does it have chalk in it ???Huh ?Huh ?Yer wuz ripped off...
*V.- I too have a Mullen P/B reel which also came from Hardwicks, nice tool- a little pricey but worth it. Before that I had an old, small, fly reel with fly line and a very old P/B. Worked pretty darn well until I found the Mullen setup. Those mercury filled Starrett P/B's look pretty nice but they're a little too rich for my blood. S.
*The right to left reading tape you are looking for are available from Lee Valley Tools.(Sorry I don't have the address) I checked with Starrett to see why they don't make a R-T-L tape and their reply was not enough demand. L-T-R tapes favor left handed people and it doesn't matter as long as you are only taking a measurement. When you need to mark from a tape, then it makes a difference. I guess most people don't see it as a problem. I think the L-T-R convention came about because the English language is read from left to right.
*LeeValley.comLee Valley tools makes a left handed tape. I havent tried it because Im so used to doing it the other way I'd prob. screw up all my cuts.Good Luck
*I like the cheap aluminum (probably made with slave labor) level from Homo Deport. They hold up to abuse well and even work fine after being bent and rebent.I like the stanley 30 foot dispsoable tapes. I only figure on getting a decent month out of any tape.My beef is with the framing square. I finally liked the sands model (i can see the black markings) but they wear off too easily and crack at the heel.ALL SQUARE MANUFACTURERS ARE PROFESSIONAL RIPOFFS. THEY ARE HEAVILY INTO PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE!Since I can't see the numbers anymore, I pulled out my trusty old homeowner's square by stanley that is fifteen years old. It's flimsy and light aluminum that bends easliy and bends back just as easy. Stanely quit making them because no one ever needed to replace them unless they were lost! I wish I had bought twenty of them (one per year for the next two decades)!Anyone want to sell their lousy old homeowners framing square?blue
*Now I have heard it all. Last I heard you would use nothing longer than a torpedo level. How the heck do you bend one of those? God, you don't take your back hoe on real jobs do you? LOLDennis
*Actually, the number between 5 and 7 is a 9 printed upside down for the convenience of left-handed users. Also the 6 which appears out of sequence between the 8 and the 10. Come to think of it the 8 is also conveniently printed upside sown and it's even in order. What's to complain about? The 1 works either way. Just measure short distances.
*Rob-The most valuable measuring device I've found is the Lufkin X46X "red end" folding rule. Commonly, the version most readily found is the X46 "red end". This one has only one brass extension, however, the X46X has an extension at both ends. You don't have to contort every which way to get an interior measurement and be able to read the rule. You may have to order it from a real hardware store. It's worth the wait.Good luck.Porter
*Dennis...squares are real easy to bend...too easy...and ya just whack em on their end to adjust em. Been there done that years ago on my first house when I used it to square a whole house deck...Then it dawned on me that I could measure the diagonals and off I went and picked up my first stretchy fiberglass piece a crap 100' tape...Metal tape now and I rarely take handy hints from the carpenters that used to cut trees down for a living,near the stream,ajOh and that house deck was more square than the damn wavey foundation.
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I am new to homebuilding. I have experience with quality automotive hand tools and some power tools. I am a DIY'er and want to build up my tool collection - slowly per need. In the past when I bought tools, I purchased too many tools I did not need. For example, sets of sockets, and various wrenches with too many types, and sizes I never used, and that was a costly mistake.
I have some carpenter tools but need more. Right now I am concentrating on home repair only, as I learn more about homebuilding. I need to purchase some measuring tools: Carpenters/Framing square, Try square, Combination square, Speed square, bevel gauge, marking gauge, and chalk line.
Can anyone tell me what I should get in these types of tool, such as the better material for a particular tools function and durability, whether it is something that I need the best quality of, or a tool that will work fine in a lower quality, as the price range is from several dollars to well over a hundred dollars. I imagine that I need a good quality level, but what size is best, 48"? (I like the Starrett, aluminum, adjustable block vials).
But what about framing squares - quality level needed, material (steel, aluminum, wood, plastic) and brands?
Combo square - same question?
Speed square - same question?
Bevel gauge - same question?
Marking gauge - same question?
Chalk line - same question?
I do not want to purchase any tools of inferior material or performance quality. Example, bargain basement imported Taiwan tools. Sears Craftsman, Local hardware store bargain tools. I am uncertain about the quality of some Stanley tools. Some seem good and some seem lousy. On the other hand, I do not need any high end, ultra precision, fine wood working tools, that go into hundreds and thousands of dollars. As I mentioned before, I am doing repairs, demolition, rough carpentry, with some finish carpentry when needed, but almost no fine woodworking, except for applying stains and finishes. I am looking for lower high end, of industrial quality tools. Starrett, and Brown & Sharpe are good examples of the quality range in measuring tools that I think are good values, good quality, and a good price (when found on sale somewhere).
I know this was winded but when I just ask short simple questions I never really get the nitty gritty details.
Thank you, Rob
PS. I do not have any confusion about power tools and other hand tools, home building supplies, or how to do a particular job. It just occurred to me that I had the same problem when I needed to buy automotive measuring tools.