mechanical cabinetmaker pencil
jimscustomwoodworks
| Posted in General Discussion on
any one using or found a decent mechanical cabinetmaker pencil with the thick leads (2mm?) i found one at rockler but it went to heck right away, someone has to make a quality one….thanks as always…
Replies
2mm doesn't sound much better than a reasonably sharp grease pencil - lol
I use a Pentel P207 (0.7mm). I've tried the P205 (0.5mm) but break the lead too often. If I gotta have a really fine mark, I use a utility knife to "knick" an edge at the cut.
check out drafting pencils
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=45504&cat=1,42936,43509
Depending on how accurate you want to be, a 2mm lead holder with a sharp lead will definitely be more durable than the .5mm or .7mm pencils, but a marking knife is more accurate and durable.
Speaking of accuracy, I just bought one of the General/Incra scales at Woodcraft and after seeing this thread, wondered why they make scales and marking gauges that are graduated all the way down to 1/64" when a .5mm lead is just over 1/50" in diameter. How many of you use micrometers and vernier calipers for woodworking, and how accurate do you want to be with wood?
Between 3 yrs an an organ builder, and 7 as a luthier, I rely on calipers extensively. Most guitar plans I work from are all metric, so digital cals were/are a must..a 3.05 MM distance is awful hard to measure with FATMAX tape..LOL
When in imperial conversion mode, and using dial cals, I just committed to memory .03539 (or was it .03537?) X ___mm = whatever in thousandths of an inch so say ya need to convert 8mm to thous..8x.o3539=.28312 5/16=.3125 a difference of only .0294, often that is close enough, but a steel string at 200 psi that is onlt .008 in thick is a damm straight line, and often feeler gages are used down to .005...
so, yup, I do. I prefer Mitutoyo cals..digital and dial, when the batts are dead I can still lock them to a dial derived space and use them for transfer points. (G). Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
" Everything looks like a nail, to a hammer"
I'm with you Sphere, I use digital calipers all the time. Not like you did but when I'm using the wide belt I always check with calipers, bit more accurate then the FatMax that you suggested.
Doug
I don't know if calipers are necessary, I do OK with a wooden yardstick. I had to darken the marks with a magic marker, though. They were getting kinda faint.OK, I'm kidding. My question was more toward building medium and larger pieces, how accurate people are trying to be and how they attain this accuracy. 1/16" in 8'? 1/32" in 8', 1/64" in 8'?As I said before, I just got the General/Incra ruler with graduations down to 1/64" and checked the stiles/rails that I had just cut for my kitchen cabinet doors. I used the scale on my TS fence to cut them at 2-1/4". I set it up using a tape measure and use the same one for anything I make, in order to eliminate the tape as a variable. Although I have checked it occasionally over the past year or so, I haven't changed the setup. When I placed the General ruler over the stile, the little hole at 2-8/32" was split down the middle.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Edited 11/29/2005 8:51 pm by highfigh
split the line and make it as fat as you can tolerate..)insert chest thumpin, (..if your work involves .00 mm tolerances, you, and I need a new hobby. Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
" Everything looks like a nail, to a hammer"
At least we aren't working with scanning electron microscopes and manipulating individual atoms into what amounts to graffiti, like some people.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Ditto on the Lee Valley pencil. We've had this discussion before on the forum.
Quality repairs for your home.
AaronR Construction
Vancouver, Canada
I use the one from lee valley and a 0.9 mm from pentel (pental ?)
Between the two you've got things covered. Like them both alot. Can't tell you how many guys have bought them after they see me using these... BUIC
I use Bic Velocity .9 mm. They work great on trim, and finished lumber. Still need a carpenters pencil for framing, but I use the mechanical most of the time now. Bought them at Office Depot.
View Image
Stacy's mom has got it going on.
Edited 11/29/2005 4:39 pm ET by dustinf
Edited 11/29/2005 4:40 pm ET by dustinf
There used to be a fantastic 1.2mm mechanical that was sold for gradeschool kids. The lead was strong enough that our entire crew, even the framers, started using the pencil. Both compasses were fitted with them and I bought them by the dozen, giving one away each time a carpenter commented on how well they worked. A local shop teacher ordered them by the gross for use in his class. As with many good things, it was discontinued and the replacement model doesn't hold up as well and isn't worth fighting with. Too bad.
A coworker and I both have 2mm pencils and they seem like more trouble than they're worth and the lead is too expensive for what you get.
The .7mm and .5 mm lead is strong for it's size--just not thick enough.
As of a few years ago the .9 mm pencils didn't have strong enough lead to be worth a darn. However a few months ago I tried another "new improved" .9mm lead and it's great. For everything except framing these are the only pencils I use. Decent .9mm pencils seem easy to find and Walmart sells one with a metal nose for under $3 that is well made and has been used daily for 2 months with no problems.
If you are near a university book store or large art supply store check out their drafting pencils. Well supplied stores have a multitude of sizes and types of mechanical pencils from mild to wild and prices from $2 to $20. They also stock lead in all kinds of hardnesses, which is nice for light lines that are easily sanded off.
Cheers,
Don
I figured out that university bookstores are great by accident. My school has a really storng engineering college so the bookstore has all kinds of fun stuff. I picked up a couple of draftsmans pencils .9, and .5 for a few bucks each, and some really hard lead, hard to beayt for finish work, and I wouldnt be afraid to use them for framing, just wouldnt hand them out to a crew or anythin. They are all metal though. In fact I bent the tip of one the otherday, I still dont know how, but I used my pliers to bend it back, and its good as new. The other thing that I love about them is that the insides are so simple, that if something isnt working I can generally fix it pretty quick no matter where Im at. Just my 2 cents worth.
If this is the same as the Rockler one.....then, never mind.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32541&cat=1,42936
I would like to find a pencil that is specially made to be exactly 1/8" thick...probably a flat lead edge.
I like to layout parts on a sheet before cutting them up for carcasses/built-ins, etc. - sure would be nice to account for the saw kerf during my layouts...without having to draw two parallel lines only 1/8" apart to represent the cuts!
Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
flip the flat carpy stick..it is a .200 x .100..adjust accordingly you CAn eyball a scintillion, I suppose? Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"silence, is the only reward"
and it's even deeper..
Perfect works are rare, because they must be produced at the happy moment when taste and genius unite; and this rare conjuncture, like that of certain planets, appears to occur only after the revolution of several cycles, and only lasts for an instant.Say that three times..
I was hoping for a bit more accuracy than that!Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Oh..sharpen it..that'll get ya close. (G) Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"silence, is the only reward"
and it's even deeper..
Perfect works are rare, because they must be produced at the happy moment when taste and genius unite; and this rare conjuncture, like that of certain planets, appears to occur only after the revolution of several cycles, and only lasts for an instant.Say that three times..
Whats wrong with the "leadholder" pencils from Staedtler? With the emory sharpener they become needle sharp, and the dust in the sharpener can be used for transfer markings. Different lead hardnesses can be bought to compensate for heavy or light handedness, or for darkness of marks needed. You can even get colours for complicated layouts, and they are readily available at draft/artist supply stores.View Image
Didn't you just describe a lumber pencil? Those are about 1/8" thick and if you sharpen it right, the exposed lead will be long enough to last quite a while.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Well, the lead needs to be long enough so that it can ride smoothly along a straightedge or T-Square during layout. And the longer the lead, the more likely it will break. I've also found that the lead doesn't wear evenly and will vary in width as you draw a long line.
Perhaps the solution is some sort of dual-pencil that uses two strong/sharp leads that draw lines precisely 1/8" apart from eachother as you drag it down the length of a piece of ply.Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
JFink -
Your tongue was firmly embedded in your cheek when you wrote that........right?? - lol
No way...I'm serious about this. I want something that will accurately mark out the saw kerf on a piece of material. It doesn't have to knife vs. pencil lead or whatever else...I just want it to do the job so I can do full sheet layouts accurately.Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
J.,
I've always prefered a blade that cuts a 1/8" kerf over those thin-kerf blades.
I'm not worried so much about saving .03" of material as I am about ease of layout when I have to add the thickness of the kerf to the previous line for the next cut mark.
For the accuracy you want, the side of the line, of any thickness, next to the straight edge is the line the 'near' side of the blade rides. The next mark is always measured from the 'near' side of the line, then add the 8th.
Sharpen your carp's pencil to a chisel point and hold the cutting edge of the chisel point to the Straight Edge. As the graphite wears to the wood and the S.E., the side of the line next to the S.E. will still be your reference no matter what the 'waste' side is doing.
SamT
edtit for nonobsfucationary phraseology.
Edited 12/2/2005 5:57 pm by SamT