Replies

1. 
   davidmeiland | Nov 17, 2009 07:50am | #1

   What state are you in? What are the requirements for filing a pre-lien notice, if any?

1. 
   markdanth | Nov 17, 2009 07:51am | #2

   I live in PA. I haven't really researched this much yet.

2. 
   BossHog | Nov 17, 2009 09:52am | #3

   You might try talking to the HO first - Tell them you're gonna have to file a lien.

   You might be burning a bridge with the contractor you worked under, but that alone might get you paid.
3. 
   Piffin | Nov 17, 2009 01:52pm | #4

   Alien doesn't get you paid, it only gives you some leverage to do so. Or the threat of it does.

   A lien is filed in records against the title for the house. If it ever gets sold, liens are paid from the proceeds at that time.

   To actually get paid, you might have to pleed in small claims court

    

    

   Welcome to the
   Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
    where ...
   Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   woody1777 | Nov 17, 2009 06:19pm | #10

   >>>>>Alien doesn't get you paid, it only gives you some leverage to do so. Or the threat of it does.>>>>I dunno, an "Alien" collecting for him would have a better than average chance of getting the money just on shock value alone. The key is getting the money from the Alien after he gets it from the contractor. Intergalactic fuel costs are insane.........<G>Naive but refreshing !

1. 
   davidmeiland | Nov 17, 2009 06:42pm | #11

   An alien would be incredibly effective. When the deadbeat opens the door and sees the alien standing there with an anal probe ready he'll write a check immediately. The alien has no use for the money, he just wants to do experiments on people.

4. 
   MikeHennessy | Nov 17, 2009 03:47pm | #5

   Filing a mechanic's lien in PA is not hard -- just technical. Meaning if you mess up a single step, even a little bit, the lien is no good. First, the amount due must be over $500 and meet certain requirements (which it sounds like your situation would meet). You need to give 30-days written notice prior to filing the lien. The notice must contain certain specific information set forth in the Mechanic's Lien law. Then you need to file the lien with the Prothonotary (now may be called something different, like "chief records custodian", depending on where you are) within 6 months of completing work. Again, the claim must contain certain specific informaiton as set forth in the statute. Then, within 30 days of filing, you have to provide notice (again, the specific manner of service of this notice is set forth in the statutes) to the property owner. If you have access to a law library, look at 49 Pa.C.S. §1400, et sec.

   If you do all that EXACTLY right, you'll have a lien against the property that any buyer of the property in the future will probably want to have cleared up prior to purchasing. If you wanna actually get paid, you have to file a suit for payment. In fact, the property owner can force you to file the suit where (s)he can defend against your claim. The outcome of the suit will determine who owes whom how much. (But, even if you win, you still might have some work to do to enforce the judgment to get paid.)

   The real benefit of MLs is that they are sometimes useful to get the property owner to put pressure on the prime to pay his subs, or get the owner to pay the subs directly. They have no direct effect on the prime -- only on the property owner. They also have the effect of sometimes making the property owner pay twice for the work/materials, assuming (s)he paid the prime and the prime stiffed the sub. In that case, the owner may have to pay the sub directly, even if the prime was already paid in full, to clear the lien.

   If the amount is significant, you may wanna hook up with a lawyer -- if not to do the filing, then at least to get you good forms and point you in the right direction.

   Mike Hennessy
   Pittsburgh, PA
   Everything fits, until you put glue on it.

1. 
   markdanth | Nov 17, 2009 05:23pm | #7

   Wow, Thanks Mike. You're from my neck of the woods I see.
   I'm not going to do this, really not worth my time and effort,
   and I like both the contractor and the owner.
   I'm just starting out and don't want to burn any bridges.
   I just wanted to see if this a viable option in case I ever need it
   on a bigger job. Thank you for the expert advise, maybe I'll see you on
   a job some day :)Mark

1. 
   MikeHennessy | Nov 17, 2009 05:33pm | #8

   "maybe I'll see you on a job some day "

   You'd best hope not . . . I earn a living by suing people! (Or trying to keep folks from being sued, or defending those who are sued.)

   I only do construction stuff on my own properties. And right now, I'm thinkin' of firing the contractor! ;-)Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PAEverything fits, until you put glue on it.

1. 
   markdanth | Nov 17, 2009 05:55pm | #9

   Yikes. Ok then I hope I NEVER see you! LOL ;)

2. 
   jimAKAblue | Nov 17, 2009 10:10pm | #14

   "and I like both the contractor and the owner.
   I'm just starting out and don't want to burn any bridges."If they aren't paying, you shouldn't trust fire to burn the bridge...use napalm. The quicker you learn to protect yourself, the closer you will be to earning your retirement. The pennies you give away now will cost you thousands and perhaps, millions, later on in life. Don't hesitate to light that match.

1. 
   markdanth | Nov 18, 2009 12:28am | #15

   I hear you man. I'm over it really. I'm only out the cost of materials, which I can use for another project and my time. I know
   that's money as well, but I believe in karma. If this were
   my gig from the get go I would not have taken this job.
   There were a few little "extras" thrown in while I was working as well.
   My router broke during this gig and my table saw died at home so
   I had to use sleds to cut this 3 piece capital casing by hand using clamps etc. It was pretty terrible. Luckily it was paint grade
   work :) For the price I did this job there should have been
   no complaints. The homeowner has no idea what the budget the contractor gave me to complete this so let me throw this at you guys and
   give your best "guesstimate" of what you would charge.1. Re create a 1"'x6"x10' 3 piece capital casing (both sides of opening)
   and cut and fit a 1x8x10' of poplar for the head jamb.
   2. Re-use the side jambs & casing and the plinth blocks from the existing opening, but sand and paint using enamel paint.
   3. Hang everything back up plumb, level (the opening was 5/8"
   out of plumb and 1/2" out of level, and it is a bearing wall
   which already has been plastered.) Of course, I didn't know
   this until AFTER I started working.
   4. Since the opening was widened I had to cut down the 3-piece
   baseboard, re-cope & paint.
   5. Sand and paint 50 lf of baseboard.

   Edited 11/17/2009 4:31 pm ET by markdanth

5. 
   runnerguy | Nov 17, 2009 05:05pm | #6

   Great post by Mike.

   As another mentioned, you might do well to talk to the HO before all this starts. If the HO had any wherewithall at all, he/she would have been requiring lien releases from your guy. And of course if your guy provided a release certifying he had paid everyone and he didn't, that's fraud. A criminal matter then.

   Runnerguy

6. 
   mordecai | Nov 17, 2009 06:54pm | #12

   Now you see why mechanics and materialmen should only deal directly with the property owner.

   In 1852 the U.S. Supreme Court said: "Experience has shown that mechanics and materialmen who furnish labor and materials for the construction of buildings are often defrauded by insolvent property owners and dishonest contractors." Winder v. Caldwell

   So contractors have been scumbags for a long time.

   Edited 11/17/2009 11:03 am ET by mordecai <!-- MORDECAI26 -->

   
   

   ---

   Edited 11/17/2009 11:04 am ET by mordecai

1. 
   frammer52 | Nov 17, 2009 09:56pm | #13

   o contractors have been scumbags for a long time>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    

   Would you please modify this line.