I want a meeting with the boss. It’s important………..to both of us I would think.
1 hour minimum.
On the clock or off?
I want a meeting with the boss. It’s important………..to both of us I would think.
1 hour minimum.
On the clock or off?
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Replies
Off.
A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
off..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I say it depends on the subject.
If it's about yer pay or somethin about a new direction for the company , then I agree off.
But if it's about the job you're currently doing or a locked in job that's comming up then I say on.
I have meetings with my boss all the time under those rules.
If I meet my boss in the bar then shop talk is forbidden.
No Veterans = No USA-----Bumper Sticker
I'd say work-related stuff is done on work time.
If the boss wants you to talk to him when YOU are not at work, I'd say that's the same thing as you showing up at his house some evening and wanting to talk about work.
Personal discussion....off the clock.
Business discussion, on the clock. (While a raise might be considered business, I typically aproached a boss off the clock for such discussion.)
How does he handle them typically?
I used to work for a guy who could spend a half hour or more (almost daily) discussing strategies for current or upcoming projects. He used to like to do it at the end of the day after we had finished packing up. He considered it off the clock. The rest of us disagreed. It wasn't as if we could have decided not to participate and headed home.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
work related meetings on the clock. talking about the new boat you wanna buy... off
View Image Official Jeff Buck Memorial Tagline "
How about this - you have the meeting. Then, just before you leave you ask HIM if he thinks you should put it on your time card or not. Could be a great reality check, for you, and him.Just say NO! to moving truck threads.
http://www.asmallwoodworkingcompany.com
It may or may not apply to your line of work, but here is my decision tree for time being billable or not:
During the time in question: Did I have to be clothed?
It sounds funny but I'm completely serious. A reasonable person is only going to be able to take off their clothes on their own time.
I normally travel to do shows, meet with clients, talk on the phone, and wait to be able to do things. When I am meeting with people, running a show, setting up and tearing down - obviously I'm clothed. Back at the hotel room, readying software for the show the next day - again clothed.
Sitting on the couch watching TV or reading a book? Ahhh, there it might not be clear using other discretion criteria... but if I am there waiting for a call to meet someone, or do a conference call - I have to be clothed and therefore that time is billable.
Taking time for lunch - billable? Well, If I CAN go back to my room, take off my clothes, and then get dressed again and come back to work during a reasonable span of time - that time is not billable. If I get a call at ANY moment during that time span, or someone walks by me eating and asks me a work question, then the entire time is billable as it was not my own.
In your case: Can you be naked talking to your boss? I'm guessing you will have to have a professional decorum, which means the time is not your own to spend how you see fit. Your time is being rented from you by your employer or client - therefor: Billable
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
I'm sorry Paul, but that's about the worst criteria I've ever heard of. Here's one for you.... when my old boss gave me my first crew to run, I used to go over his house at night after work. We'd bulls1t, his wife would cook dinner, and we'd talk about framing. I'd ask questions, he'd teach me, we do sketches, and we'd discuss different approaches and solutions to framing.
I never even considered asking to get paid for it. Why? Because it was mutually beneficial time and it was my choice and I initiated it. He benefited as I was learning more and becoming faster, more capable, and more productive. I was benefiting because the more I learned, the more money I could make from him.
So I think it depends entirely on the situation.... not on what you are or are not wearing... or could be wearing. If Eric wants to talk to his boss about some time he needs to take off for familiy reasons (just an example) he should probably be clothed. But I really don't think he deserves to be compensated for that time, do you?View Image
Brian,
I respond to you rather than ALL, as that seems to be a good way to kill a thread.
I'm not looking for a raise (although I might ask!) and I am not there to discuss personal business.
It's all about work, the company, the way it functions (or could) and how I fit into all this. We are having a lot of problems with some of the jobs we are doing. I have become the fireman. Go here fix this, change that, stroke Mr. Jones so he doesn't freak out about the third countertop being wrong..............etc, etc, etc.
It's killing me. I get to close up the jobs, fix all the wrong/missing/broken crap and all the complaints the clients have.
It's a lot deeper than that as well. I see right through the troubles and I have ideas on how the company can approch these issues and hopefully create a future much less full of all this crap that strains everyone's nerves and patience.
I need a big pow wow. The boss needs it, the company needs it.
I say on the clock. I'll give him the hour no big deal; although I am reluctant to start spilling my smarts all over the desk if he can't even be generous enough to call me in during hours.
How this goes down will be a barometer of sorts for me to guage my future with this company.
Eric[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
I can make arguments to both sides of that situation Eric. Tough one, for sure. I think the best barometer of all would be to go in, have the talk..... and see if he decides to pay you for the time. Put the ball in his court. If you offer him legitimate achievable solutions to righting this sinking ship, then you deserve not only the hour's time, but probably a raise as well as it sounds as though you will probably play an instrumental role in implementing the plan. Basically it sounds to me like you're about to tell him that you're willing to continue to mop up his messes.... but in order to continue, you'd like to do on your terms rather than his.
But here's the big one...... does he even realize that there's a problem? And even if he's aware of it, is he willing to confront it? Some guys aren't. My old boss had the framing business I wish I had. He had a good foreman (me) and a mind-boggling steady stream of desireable jobs in a killer market. But he was a horrible business man and we all watched as the whole thing just fell apart.
Myself and a mutual friend of ours (my boss and I) had an 'intervention' with him one night. We sat down at his kitchen table and gently spelled out the writing that was already on the wall. He already knew it, but we thought hearing it would help. We then laid out a business plan about what could and should be done to keep the thing afloat. He nodded and 'yes-ed' us.... said things like "yeah, you guys are right" etc the whole night. In the end, he did nothing and now works for somebody else.
I know that this isn't/wasn't the intended topic of the thread but I think it's something to think about. I think his own mind-set will have a lot to do with whether or not asking to get paid for that hour will fly or sink like a lead zeppellin. If he realizes that things aren't going so good he will go one of two ways: He'll be irritable and penny-wise/pound foolish and stick it to you for the hour. OR he'll realize the gift you just dropped in his lap and reward you accordingly.
At least that's my best guess, anyway. :)
View Image
At least that's my best guess, anyway. :)
I'd second that very insightful guess.
Had a former boss that we did a number of pow-wows with. He agreed to a lot of things to change and implemented very few of them. Within a year 3 out of 4 of us had moved on.
I think he learned from the experience. I did too. We could have made an excellent team, but both egos got in the way, and I didn't see a future with him.
Bowz
I remember well something you wrote me in an email a year or so ago..........about their being no gaurantee that the guy I go to work for is not an assclown.
It rings in my ear every day!
Eric[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
But here's the big one...... does he even realize that there's a problem? And even if he's aware of it, is he willing to confront it? Some guys aren't.
Well, he's got at least 25-30k outstand receivables being held back due to "problems".
It's confronting him wether he likes it or not.
BUT, this guy is the king of denial. He'll tell you the ship is right on course even as it grinds itself to a sickening halt on a rocky reef.
Design and production do nor communicate at all pre or post project. In my book that's enough right there to kill a business.
And that's the tip of the iceberg.
Eric[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
Well, he's got at least 25-30k outstand receivables being held back due to "problems".
It's confronting him wether he likes it or not.
BUT, this guy is the king of denial. He'll tell you the ship is right on course even as it grinds itself to a sickening halt on a rocky reef.
Design and production do nor communicate at all pre or post project. In my book that's enough right there to kill a business.
And that's the tip of the iceberg.
So you moved to Wisconsin and took over when I parted ways with the cabinet shop here???? Sounds like the exact same problems!
Funny but I am doing the cabinet install on the former manager's new house. Last week we were taking odds on whether the shop is going to fold or not. We couldn't bet each other because we both are sure it will.
Bowz
Eric.... sounds like you might have bigger financial problems looming with this guy than just one hour's pay. If he isn't open to fixing this thing or at least acknowledging that a problem exists, then you're just wasting your breath.
So when you gonna just give in and come frame with me? ;)View Image
To old for that sh!t!! Framing is for you youngins.
The money is his receivables not mine. Sorry if I misled you or I misunderstood you perhaps. "We" did over 2 million in gross sales last year, headed for maybe double that this year.
We sell and install kitchens and baths mostly including the cabinetry.
I'm on the clock, not a sub. I have been an employee now for almost a year!! Yikes!
I can do it, but it's gotta be right.
How's the running going?
Eric
edit: I got ya now. The money is always there friday morning. The day it is not is the day I walk.
[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
Edited 8/31/2006 8:16 pm ET by EricPaulson
Edited 8/31/2006 8:34 pm ET by EricPaulson
I had to give up the running again Eric. It sucks, but my knees just can't take it anymore. Some mornings I had a hard time working my job. I'm thinking of getting them looked at at a bone and joint medical center that's not too far away. Probably going to have to wait until winter when things slow down though. I get really aggravated (pizzed) when I run into physical limitations.... so it was tough to swallow.View Image
I don't enjoy running like I wish I could or as much as I did when I was younger.
When I do enjoy it, it is usually when I run in the woods, NOT on the road. Soft spagnum under my feet, rock and logs to scramble around or leap over. Got a few old dirt roads here too, still better than blacktop.
You should think about taking up cycling.
Eric[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
My azz is too fat for those fancy shorts.View Image
Didn't you meet Jerrald Hayes at the fest??[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
Just briefly. Why? What am I missing?View Image
My azz is too fat
Jerrald rides.............if he can fit THAT #### in to those fancy shorts, well just about anyone can![email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
LOL.... oh, now I get it. Little slow on the uptake over here. Sorry I made ya spell it out like that!View Image
Don't want to hijack here but I used to run 50 - 60 mi per week about 30 yrs ago. Mostly hard surface. Even did the Windsor/Detroit marathon in '79. Beat the knees up real good.
Mike
We are having a lot of problems with some of the jobs we are doing. I have become the fireman. Go here fix this, change that, stroke Mr. Jones so he doesn't freak out about the third countertop being wrong..............etc, etc, etc.
Are you one of the last remaining English speaking employees?
Been there...done that.
Can't say as I miss it.
Good luck.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
That is the frustrating part. We are mostly intelligent English speaking people creating a concerted effort in stupidity.
[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
LOL... that was great.View Image
DP
On the knee issue, I used to run a lot, 6 miles a day mostly, ran a marathon once just to say that i did, sorta like your incounter with it, but then I broke my back in 5 places, no more running, hell some days theres no walking!
Get yourself a bike, good exercise and the joints will start to like ya again.
I never wear those funny bike shorts, something about them.
And remember this line, "pick an age you like and stick with it" This getting old isnt what I thought it would be.
Doug
Edited 9/1/2006 9:10 pm ET by DougU
Can I make that my tag line? That fits so many situations in life!She said, "Tell me, are you a christion child?"
I Said, "Ma'am I am tonight" from, Walking in Memphis
November 18th, be the walker
I don't think the 1hour pay is the real issue. You seem to be self motivated, and have some insight to add to the "TEAM"? Good luck! Hopefully the boss is open minded and can capitalize on your strong=points, recommendations, & advice.
Planning, Organizing, & constantly reassessig the operations of a company is essential. Done collectively as a group or team, is IDEAL!!!
Actually, your example still fits the "clothes" criteria very nicely. You went there after work. That was your time, not company time. You could have spent it in a movie theatre at a new release, a bowling alley practicing your strikes, or in your own home naked. You choose to spend it with your boss, enjoying the company and good cooking of his family and learning a great deal in the process.
But you didn't have to be there, you could have been naked instead! Therefore: Not Billable.Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Whatever works for ya Paul.View Image
Heck, if I didn't get paid for meetings, I'd be in the poorhouse.
Also, In most busineses,if you are a payroll employee, meetings that are at boss's request are mandatory and therefore on the book. Salaried supervisory personell are not included in above mandatory.
Any meeting concerning his business is on the clock. That includes HR and financial concerns that impact either or both of you.
Since you say "on the clock", that clearly indicates you are an hourly employee, not on a fixed salary. Look up the US Dept. of labor definitions for hourly, hourly non-exempt and exempt employees. We all have to live by those definitions. See where you fit and proceed accordingly.
Dave
Of course, if you're a "free agent" of some sort and you just bill the company for the hours you put in (or something along those lines), you wouldn't bill the meeting if it's to discuss a business deal between you and the company. That would be "overhead" in your (personal) business.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
It is only an hour. If it is an ongoing situation then that is different, but I say if you are in doubt then it should probably be off the clock. Is losing an hours pay going to break you? When the meeting is over ask the boss his opinion. If its a one time deal then just forget about it.
Lunch/dinner bought by the boss meeting...off the clock.
Update, please
Did you get an audiance?
And more importantly, did it do any good?
Doug
I'm sitting on my hands for now. Obviously this is not important to him at all. He simply has no interest in what others have to offer.
I am appaesed for the moment, as I was actually put on a real live project instead of driving the firetruck around all week again. Last week I had days where I was on three different jobs in one day.
I hate my job and my boss is an ####.............but I also have obligations and responsibilities............and currently a lazy, unmotivated wife who is in the throes of yet another career change/crisis.
I'll keep you all posted.
Thanks for asking.
Eric[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been