HEY! Holmes on Homes just said that mesh tape was superior to the paper tape!
What’s with that?
Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. [Theodore Roosevelt]
Replies
Yeah. Easier for a homeowner to use.
Don't ever counter anything Mr. Holmes says, or he'll pull out his earring and throw it at you.
Then he'll explain how much better his earring is than the earrings that other contractors wear and ask for it back.
Don't forget that his earring is installed with screws, not those inferior nails that the hacks use...I have CDO.
It's like OCD, only the letters are in alphabetical order like they're supposed to be.
http://www.truenorthcarpentry.net
Mike does say some interesting stuff. . . doesn't he? Mesh tape is great for repairs and doing hairline cracks because the mesh tape has little impact when mud is applied over it. You can use a very thin layer to cover it up as opposed to paper.Now if I'm taping a whole room or house I'm going to use paper, both for its speed and cost.http://www.josephfusco.org
http://www.constructionfourmsonline.com
It is superior for the right situation, just not for taping drywall. =]
See my work at TedsCarpentry.com
Buy Cheap Tools! BuildersTools.net
I don't know if it's the same episode but I once saw him say something to the effect that the pros use paper tape and it comes out good because they know what they're doing, but he, with less drywalling miles, likes the mesh tape.
I sense the anti-Mike vibe around here but have you seen the screwed up jobs on that show? Scares the #### out of me.
Ya, he also said that he uses either 45 or 90min compound over his mesh tape as it dries to a harder surface. Don't know what's with that.
First time I ever watched one of the shows. It was entertaining.
Some hapless homeowners had bought some new windows and had their roofer put them in.
heh heh The Holmes guy ripped the roofer a new one.
They shoulda had the roofer be there during the discovery to give JerrySpringer a run for his money.Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. [Theodore Roosevelt]
Yeah, i'm not as overly impressed with Mr Holmes as he is.
Its kinda fun watching him wander a jobsite for an hour ridicule everything the other guy did while extolling his virtues to all that will hear.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
Anyone that doesn't know plumb from level cannot be trusted.
I wonder what you would sound like walking around some of those jobs. When I watch the show I see the guy give full credit to his workers and the subs he brings in. And when some particular part of the disaster being revealed on the screen was done well, he says so. You dismiss all the good he does because he prefers screws to nails in some case?
Busted. You're right, he just really seems to like himself.
I probably do sound just as bad.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
The good he does is like Paris Hilton attending a charity auction. It's not like he's working for free. He has done very well off the shoddy work of bottom feeder builders. His constant claiming of the moral high ground sticks in my throat.
I do wonder what he must charge. Alot of what he does is be no means the budget minded way to go.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
From what I understand the homeowners get a discount / free labor but have to pay for materials. Sometimes he throws stuff in for free.
It's a fair criticism that he often chooses really expensive methods and materials. And he's done well with the show. He's probably very rich. He did start a scholarship fund for youth to enter the trades., so he's not purely self-interested.
But, I ask again. Have you seen the jobs on that show? They're not all "bottom feeder" contractors either. Half the time it's new construction. Occasionally it's permitted and inspected work. And it's as plain as day that it's wrong. Sometimes dangerously wrong. Sometimes criminally wrong.
I guess I can see why other proud tradesmen can see him as a big egotist. Who else is going to be on TV? What's the difference between disagreeing with Mike Holmes about tape or screws and disagreeing with an FHB article or a tool review or anything else. It's small potatoes.
I agree picking at small gaffs or personality flaws is small potatoes. My difficulties with Mike Holmes' show are more general.
As one of the few builders on TV he represents the public face of the construction process, and I think he misrepresents it. The show suggests a black and white world. On one side the evil previous builder whose work must be destroyed in its entirety, often just so Mike can see what is in the walls or roof. The other side is Mike and all his subtrades who, unhampered by budgets or other real world conditions, seemingly never make mistakes or have call backs on their work.
Another I think more serious concern is the way he removes the client from the design and building process. Once Mike arrives you relinquish all control over how or what he does. It's his surprise gift you, and you had better be grateful. That runs against everything thoughtful architects and builders do everyday. There is nothing about the projects that make this necessary. It is a Faustian bargain the owners have to make to get him to repair their houses. In one memorable case a poor couple had their house completely demolished and rebuilt to his liking - their quaint home replaced by an obviously inappropriate modernist showpiece to Mike's enthusiasms.
Is he the devil? No, but I don't think he walks on water either.
It's true, part of the show is him showing off his design skills. They kick the homeowners out so they can get that surprise, wow factor at the end of the show. I could live without that too. But how are you so sure the homeowners are uncomfortable or unwilling?
I have to disagree about them presenting contracting as black & white. If you listen to the homeowners' stories, they've given the contractor every chance; he never calls back. Or he ran off with the money. Or he undercut the foundation, compromised the structure, etc. Face it, some contractors are evil. They're the ones giving the profession a black eye, not Mike Holmes.
Some of what you say has validity. My problem with Mike is that he is a know it all. This irritates me when he says things such as screwing framing is the only way to go. He does a nice job of design, without the real world problem of budgets, which is what a lot of us have to live with.
I enjoy the show for it's construction value, I think he could do with a little less put downs.
Never saw it and the guy sounds like a genuine schmuck by the way this thread is going.
I reallly loath know-it-all types.
The show was moved, and I can't get it now. Look at his web site and you will get the idea. Mike holmes.com
I doubt the homeowners are unwilling. The fact that people volunteer to appear on all those reality shows where no-one comes off looking good suggests that people like their fifteen minutes in the limelight in spite of any cost.Holmes does present a one sided picture. No-one that is happy with their contractor comes on the show even if successful jobs greatly outnumber the kind he deals with. Since the other side of the story isn't presented, the public only hears about contractors as crooks and incompetents. Since Holmes is a celebrity in a celebrity-mad society, the picture he paints becomes a reference for the great unwashed.
I guess contractors were right up there with nurses and teachers before Holmes and his one-sided show came along. Maybe he should have another show where he shows up at a good job, smiles, and leaves; I don't think too many people would watch it.
I've seen a lot of the shows. I get the point that he comes across as a know it all. I get the point that he has some quirky construction opinions. But he doesn't call anyone's work #### because they framed with nails; he gets mad when they didn't use fasteners of any kind (it happened). I get the point that he's operating in a budget free fantasy land of television.
Everyone knows that the contracting/remodeling industry has a lot of underqualified people and a few truly bad actors. This is nothing new. It must be frustrating to be a guy with pride and ethics and have to operate in that environment. But if you and your business have a good reputation I don't see any way Mike Holmes or his show could change that.
Don't get carried away in your defense of this guy.People tend to think crime is on the increase because they hear so much about it on the news. It's on the news because no-one wants to hear about how there was less crime; that isn't exciting enough.Holmes makes money by publicizing shoddy work and incompetent contractors, not giving a balanced picture. As with crime reporting, people who don't know better tend to think what they hear is representative of the complete situation, not incidents selected for their mass appeal.I'd like to see an equivalent series on cheating, unrealistic, incompetent clients. They are at least as big a problem as the bad contractors but you never hear them mentioned in discussions the way bad contractors are.
The show is on Discovery Channel now.
How exactly am I getting carried away? Did I say something untrue? You seem to have an "us vs. them" attitude with respect to the contractor/client relationship that speaks volumes.
You keep saying the show is "unbalanced." It's not a documentary. Should he have a disclaimer with consumer opinion survey statistics at the start of the show? Because you might not like the picture those surveys tell either.
I don't know how you can minimize the disasters presented on that show. It's not like he comes in and says, "I hate those curtains" like every other show on HGTV. He exposes real problems and real ripoffs.
He's not going around saying all contractors are bad except for Mike Holmes. He's not going around saying all clients are blameless -- he asks them point blank about getting permits, checking references, choosing the impossibly low bid, etc.
He showcases and highly compliments the work of subs, from stucco guys to gutter guys to painters, masons, etc. The show is not all about him.
I'm sure I can't change your mind about the guy or his show, nor would I try. But I don't think you've given the show a fair hearing. That's what I'm responding to.
Eldan,
I don't know what show you are watching but the shows I see with him are about him.
Many of the problems he shows I think are manufactured by him and his crew for tv purposes. And many are not.
Remember this is a made for tv show and doesn't tell the true story but a story from some writers script.
I think most of what we see is smoke and mirrors.
Just my opinion. Russell
"Welcome to my world"
I'm sure nothing I can say will change your opinion. I stand by what I said about the show. I've seen most of them from the first season on. I absolutely disagree that they're faking things for the camera.
Everyone should watch it once or twice and make up their own mind. And picture yourself coming across what he finds in these houses.
I've said my piece now.
I think it also helps to remember, after all, this is TV entertainment. You've got to rub some nerves, stir the pot, and generate some controversy or else the show simply wouldn't sell.Moreover, I think part of the reason the show doesn't impress many people in BT is that it preaches to the converted. Most people around BT know what they are doing, or at least are seeking to know what they are doing; why else would they be here? I daresay Mike Holmes wouldn't find much camera fodder in the work displayed on BT by people like Mike S., Boss, Blue, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.............Scott.Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.”
That's what I said all along. If you're a builder with pride and ethics you have nothing to fear from a Mike Holmes. He's on your side. He's not "making you look bad" because you're not one of "them."
I'm still wondering about the using of 45 or 90min on drywall tape?
Is this valid?Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. [Theodore Roosevelt]
Any 45 or 90 min. compound I can think of is a setting type, as opposed to the drying type of compound (the buckets). Setting type (even EZ Sand) is stronger and harder to sand than the drying type.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Do you use 45 or 90 on your seams?
Thanks.Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. [Theodore Roosevelt]
Frequently, but that's primarily because of the reduced drying time. The added strength (somewhere between drying type and durabond) is a nice by-product.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
I agree. The setting compounds (especially Durabond, but even EZ Sand) are stronger than bucket mud.
I do a lot of repairs and sometimes I think of the setting compounds as my secret weapon. I can get 3 coats in 1 day and come back the next to paint. I've had homeowners tell me that the last guy had to come back 3 times for a similar repair. I keep 5, 20 and 90 minute on hand. I didn't even know they made a 5-minute compound until I learned about it here.
Where strength is required, like patching a hole in plaster with drywall, I prefer to use Durabond.
So you do the initial bedding of the tape over the seams using a 45/90min setting compound then?Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. [Theodore Roosevelt]
Not to necessarily jump over your question to JonBlakemore, but I will often do my taping with hot mud. Means that I can get the next coat often the same day. If I want to use mesh tape, I go by the instructions on the package and use hot mud only.
Great. So you use setting compound on the initial bedding of the paper tape also then?
I'd never done that and always opted for green lid instead.
I can see the tremendous time saving feature using a setting compound like that.
ThanksBehind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. [Theodore Roosevelt]
Yup, I use hot mud on paper tape, too. I like to use 45 min.. Just don't batch up more than you can use. If I get it right (and lucky), I'll have pulled the last glop of mud outta the pan and I'll still be able to clean up easily to get ready for the next batch. Nothing like a slowdown and a pain in the a$$ like mud in the pan that has started to fire off.
>>Do you use 45 or 90 on your seams?<<I don't bed tape in anything other than the green-lid mud. But will sometimes us setting compound for the first fill coat to speed things up.I've gotta find this show. I'm so sick of house hunters and flip-this house...When is it on Discovery? Anyone know?Steve
I had just chanced upon it when a nephew had it on and I recognized the name from seeing it on here.
Maybe a Google search could give you an idea when it might be on in your area.
Personally if it was already on I might watch it but don't see it worth chasing down.Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. [Theodore Roosevelt]
>>but don't see it worth chasing down.<<My wife has been living 1200 miles away for the last year and a half. I'm bored. What can I say...Steve
That is about how I see Holmes, when I happen across it - two or three times now. It is pure entertainment, not valuable construction advice.
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One reason I use setting type for first fill and tape coat is that it sets same speed no matter how thick and does not shrink. sometimes premixed takes two days to dry when used thick or for fill, and it will shrink too. the top thin coast don't show that and drying is overnight usually.
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Durabond is far harder than bucketmud. hard enough that you want to be careful not to leave excess on the wall. It is that hard to sand. EZ sand is pretty soft though, comparable with premix.The number indicates that approximate time it is workable after you mix it. I normally use DB90 because a mix of that is just right between start and coffee break, a second mix gets me to lunch, after lunch I can make a third mix....I keep a bag of EZsand 30 for patch work. I can do a patch and have it painted in a half day or so.You do NOT want to leave extra mix in your bucket, unless the bucket is old and ready to send to the dump anyways. Clean up immediately by end of the 90 minutes, or 45 or whatever.If I have a larger job ( really large - the subcontractor gets it) like a couple rooms, I run DB90 for the first fill and tape, then the topcoats I do with premixed finishing mud. Partly because I dislike the work of mixing and cleaning buckets, but as a general rule, the hotmud is better.Holmes is full of it on mesh tape. Every time I have seen hairline cracks in joints, it is mexh tape letting it telegraph.
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>>Every time I have seen hairline cracks in joints, it is mexh tape letting it telegraph.<<That's been my experience. I never use it.So you use hot mud to bed the tape? I was told by a taper that I respect that green-top premix is best. Says it has the best adhesion. Have you had any adhesion problems bedding in hot mud? Would sure speed things up.Steve
nope - no problems with adhesion. I learnt that way from the Jacob's Brothers. Those two guys were drunk ALL the time, but they could do a better tape job, and faster, than anybody I have ever seen in thirty years since.
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I do a lot of smaller kitchen/bath remodels and additions here in NorCal. I use mesh on the flat seams and paper in the corners. One coat hot mud and apply the topping as soon as it's hard. Finish coat the next day. Fast and easy. No callbacks yet.
Kurt
Oh yeah, I almost forgot: He also has beady little eyes.
>>>That's what I said all along. If you're a builder with pride and ethics you have nothing to fear from a Mike Holmes. He's on your side.Agreed. But for those of us familiar with job site dynamics, he does come across as a bit weird. TV producers have taken your "builder with pride and ethics" and turned him into a strident, narcissistic, overly critical hero (with good intentions), as a way to gain viewer market share. Can we blame them? Heck no; that's what TV producers do. So if you can see through all the kitsch, I think that as long as the show's advice is good, it should help the interests of reputable contractors.Scott.Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.”
OK, Mike Holmes used to be my favorite show until I canceled the cable. My opinion is that just about everyone here with an opinion is right. Mike's ego is bigger than his ability, yes, but so is just about every other sub or general that I have ever worked for. The difference is, Holmes has TV cameras and good editing. Yes, he is a bit quirky and weird, screwing framing isn't superior in my opinion, unless you need to move that stud a bit, but chances are you won't.
I think he does some good as well as bad. Bad business people need to be exposed for what they are. Yes, some may make the association with all contractors in general as being crooks, but those people probably just watch too much TV anyways. Those are probably the same kind of people that know all there is to know about something just because they watched a TV show about it. I'd rather not work for them anyways. If I had a production crew, I would look like the best damn builder you ever saw.
Holmes' show is just damn entertaining. Not too many TV programs rip off the roof of a house and rebuild it in thirty minutes.
"OK, Mike Holmes used to be my favorite show until I canceled the cable."That explains the problem!;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I think most people are missing the point, that besides the new construcion botch ups.. most of these people made these probelems for themselves..hiring friends, hiring morons / lowest bidder, and in one episode, where the house actually burned down, it was obvious that they never maintained the house to begin with.. the backyard was a garbage dump, with a buried oil tank that was decomissioned years ago..
Someone ought to send this thread to his show.
Dare ya.
I'm a dinosaur on the 'puter....find me a link.Er wait! You think?
http://www.hgtv.ca/blog/archive/2008/11/12/spluge-vs-steal-apron-front-harvest-sink.aspx#comments
I do this, it's the last you'll ever see of me what with this new crop of jack-booted mods.
I was the guy sticking up for the show, and I say do it. If you have a critique of the show send it to them! Maybe they'll listen and make the show better.
He is a pompus a**. What I think the real problem is that you don't get the whole strory. Homeowners are for the most part looking for the cheapest deal. It is real easy to make a project look like a million bucks when you have an unlimited budget like Mike. How can you compare .99 tile to real slate or marble. Also what the fu@# is it with the homeowners. Duh!!!!!!!! here is 50,000 I trust you. If it starts out bad it will end bad.
"most of these people made these problems for themselves.."
That's another topic Mike Holmes never broaches. The owners actions and motives are never to be questioned. They, like him and his subs, are the good guys. Now and forever.
"I guess contractors were right up there with nurses and teachers before Holmes and his one-sided show came along."Ha! Too true! That one made me smile.An entertaining exericise is to google "I hate contractors" with the quotes. Very educational.I have CDO.It's like OCD, only the letters are in alphabetical order like they're supposed to be.http://www.truenorthcarpentry.net
Edited 11/12/2008 7:05 pm by True North
its for TV. they should have a roundtable discussion show with guys like us> we can sit around like here and bs about all our jobs were doing. We can show everyone the real side of this business and not theirs.
Lou C
I think it would be funny as Shid
"Half the time it's new construction. Occasionally it's permitted and inspected work. And it's as plain as day that it's wrong. Sometimes dangerously wrong. Sometimes criminally wrong."There is Holmes' claim to fame. Any garbageman can look good compared to a pile of dogsheet
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I dismiss him because he is wring about 20% of the time, is full of bull, overdoes a lot for show, and has such a massive ego that he doesn't even know he can be wrong.
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