*
Congrats on the new assignment, Andy. And just because you’re sitting at the computer at lunchtime doesn’t mean you can’t have a cooler handy…maybe a radio, too.
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"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Replies
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Andy,
I'll put in a vote for the codecheck idea. It seems to come
up a lot on the forum.
MD
x
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Boy! I had no idea how many of you knew who I am. And to rate a Fredtoon! I guess it's time for an unlisted number and a gated driveway.
Indexing the archives is a daunting idea. Last I looked, we had something on the order of 10,000 posts. Volunteers?
Welcome home David. I don't know the answer to your query, but I forwarded it on to those who should. I'll post it here when I know.
I like Rik's idea about hints for newbies, and I'll see what can be done.
jjmcgough raises some interesting questions about the future of publishing. Editors and writers use the internet as a research tool everyday. I can't get over how much good information is available with a couple of key strokes. But the internet is like any book in the library; just because somebody took the time to write it down doesn't mean it's right. You need a good filter of common sense. As to jj's fears of the demise of print media, well, who knows? This site has the potential to enhance what we print, but we aren't planning to replace the magazine. It does raise an interesting question, though. Would any of you prefer to receive FHB over the web?
Watching the snow fall,
Andy
*I think cyber-printing vs a hardcopy is a generational thing. Many older folk still have need for a hardcopy. I'm in between. Getting FHB over the web? Does that mean I'll finally get it in a timely manner? My copy seems to arrive 10-14 days after posters broach the issue's offerings on the forum...and I live just down the road from Newtown! Yes, I know, the issue take a circuitous route...printers, etc, and Newtown proximity has nothing to do with delivery dates. Now, if you are considering putting certain articles onine, a la JLC, how about putting the author's uncut, detailed version? Publish the piece as it was written before he had to cut that extra page-and-a-half of text so Taunton could squeeze in that extra piece of advertising.Your comment regarding literary quality control is right on...for something to make it into print, there are editorial hurdles that need to be cleared. Anyone with access to server space and a basic knowledge of HTML code can "publish" a realistic website to serve their needs. I do reference my collection of FHB mags. What would be terrific would be an archive of FHB articles available online, or, follow in the footsteps of JLC and publish a CD. Unlike the archived posts (not counting banner advertising), the CD would generate revenue. Are the "suits" smiling? Or, sell access to the archives to guest users and have it free (wishfull thinking) to subscribers.Considering a "cyber republishing" of certain articles...how about choosing a topic and publishing a few previously printed articles dealing with the "subject of the month", etc. Once again, the online version can be more detailed due to no column-inch restrictions. I'm sure in many ways it's important to have diverse subject matter to appeal to the masses, but wouldn't it be nice to see several techniques or methods to accomplish the same task, all discussed at the same time? Kind of a "Framing Blitz" one month, a "Roofing Blitz" the next, etc? Once again, I'm referring to online vs the magazine.If this is a true attempt by Taunton to improve the site, I'm all for it. You've got a dedicated cadre of readers/writers/lurkers that have seen Taunton's pleas for ideas in the past, only to see nothing happen. Worse then nothing happening, there has never been an explanation as to why "nothing happened."Welcome aboard, Andy, and remember, even if nothing changes, at least communicate with us that "nothing is going to change."
*Maybe it's a sign of my age, but I don't ever want to see the FHB printed version disappear. Nothing I like better than sittin back in the big chair and paging through the articles. Just something about flipping between pages that's much more comfortable than staring dry eyed into a screen 1' in front of my face. That might change when computer notepads jump through a few more generations.I CAN see the day when local outlets start doing the printing. Send the magazine electronically to the local mail outlet, where it gets printed, bound and delivered to the door. I can also see a day when we'll start customizing our subscriptions online to concentrate on areas of interest. Point and click next months' issue into either a mailing flyer or a 2" thick catalogue.I like that CD index idea Mongo was talking about. The only thing better than a paper copy is an electronic index to go with it!
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I second everything Scott Mazur said.
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Well, folks, I'm home and still looking at Breaktime. I'm taking the time to post because the roast isn't done yet and my wife kicked me out of the kitchen. And also because I want you to know for sure that FHB has no plans to replace the real thing with a cyber version. That's a riot I don't want to start. It was simply a question whose answer I thought might be illuminating.
Gotta go, dinner's ready.
Andy
*Andy,
Joseph FuscoView Image"Whenever, therefore, people are deceived and form opinions wide of the truth, it is clear that the error has slid into their minds through the medium of certain resemblance's to that truth." Socrates
*I imagine operating a website like this is extremely expensive. What's in it for Taunton, or any of the other hosts?
*I don't have answers to all of your questions, but the week is close to done, and I don't want to hang you up unnecessarily. I'm neither a techie nor a muckety-muck, and I have to shuffle questions requiring an answer from those sorts of folks upstream. So far, I've only had the chance to talk to our head techie. What follows is David Kenney's elaborations on my "no, not at present" post above. Have a good, and a warm, weekend.Andy-The current version of the Web Crossing software that we have does not have a spell checker. The upgrade we get when we outsource to the discussion-board farm will have a spell check.-It is possible to create a location field so people can identify where "around here" is for them. I'm going to try some testing on it this weekend and hopefully we can go live with it in two weeks.-You can create links to jump from one sub board to another, but again that's something I'll have to teach myself how to do and then build it into the system. In the meantime, a poster can use the Bookmark feature of their browser software (Internet Explorer, Netscape) to Bookmark any location on the boards and jump to that spot through the browser bookmark.-In the interest of privacy, the only data we have on the registrants is the stuff on their Home Page. We have never kept track of the date when people signed up. -It should be possible for a user to view the boards in more of an outline form ("threaded messages"). It's an option that an individual user can get to by logging in and then going to their preferences page. (I can give you more detail on how to get there if you haven't done this yet.) But, the problem is, the feature does not seem to work. I don't know why. So all the answers to your questions are still "not at the present time", but now at least I'm guilty with extenuating circumstances.David
*Even more from David:Here's the answer to the location question:Every registered user has their own home page. You can edit some information that appears there to get a location to appear with all your posts.You get to it by first logging in and then, down at the bottom of every screen, is a link to "Edit Homepage". You'll get to the Password and Other Info box. Enter location information into the 'Second line of information' field.(I tried it, and if it works you'll see my job and location below my name on this post. Andy)
*Further to the question of research done by people who never actuallyi dowhat they write about, I ran into an old college buddy some years back, seems he had carved himself out a little niche writing 'how to' books. Did all his research by reading other peoples books, distilled it into whatever the required format was, and it got published. Whether it was plumbing yer cottage, white water kayaking or home canning!! This guy didn't know Jack about anything, except how to format what he wrote for his publisher (probably Rodale or equiv).He made no real effort to cross reference his info so that it was bonafide. Imagine the possibilities for someone "researching" from the net. . . i the information garbage dump.The mind boggles. It gives new meaning to "believe half of what you see, and none of what you read"!-pm
*Andy,I don't come here on quite as regular a basis as many, so don't know how valid my suggestions are.It seems that once a thread has more than, what, 15 or so? responses, when you open it, ven the first time, you start with #16, and, at the bottom, get to choose "all". A. Why? B. Why isn't the option to choose "all" or "latest" or whatever, at the head of the thread?Or, as a comparison: salon.com's TT (TableTalk forum) somehow keeps track of any thread you've visited. If you open a new-to-you thread, you start with post 1. If you read to bottom of page, you THEN choose "next" or "latest".Also, there are 15 or so folders with broadly defined topics. For people who love to fight, "politics" is particularly rich with possibilities....Maybe a boxing/kicking/spitting ar
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Hey, Andy! Congrats on your new job. I'm a very new member of this forum. (Got sucked in while waffling on what kind of house to build...still waffling, still sucked in.) As for indexing the archives, dodos like me sure could use a resource like that. If you created the database and then culled all the "Hey, how ya doin'" posts, you might find that the task is manageable. This is the most knowledgeable group of building professionals and semi-professionals I've managed to find anywhere in cyberland. As long as you covered yourself with all the legal disclaimers and such, I think you could create a uniquely useful resource here. A job like that might even be worth paying somebody to do. It would certainly enhance your site and I'll bet it would up your number of hits, if that's something important to you all. (What website doesn't want to up its number of hits...hits = advertising dollars.) This is starting to read like a query letter...sorry! Keep up the good work.
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Here's some more information about what we think the future holds for this site. The question of back issues on CD-ROM has come up several times. We’re considering that, but think that offering back issues on our web-site makes more sense. Here’s why; CD-ROMs are static, if you were to buy one now, clearly next year’s issues won’t be on it. If we put them on the web, however, updates will be much easier. FHB’s publisher, Jon Miller, tells me that we may have some back issues available by the end of this year.
As to putting uncut text on the web, well, I see some problems with that. Speaking as an editor, I do my best not to cut information. While editing, I not only try to make the original text a better read, but I frequently dig up and add information that was missing from the original. In the end, I hope that what appears in the magazine is better than what was first written. Still, I sometimes cut information that’s not central to an article, and I’ll pass on to my successor the idea of finding a home for it here.
Another thought that’s crossed our minds is to enhance some how-to articles with web video. The current technology is slow, but I think that will improve with time.
Finally, I’ll answer Crazy Legs’ rather blunt question, “What’s in it for Taunton?” with another: What’s in it for you when you strap on your tool bags and go to work? Currently, this site is mainly a reader service and a PR tool. It’s also a sales outlet for books and subscriptions. Remember, though, that we’re in the business of selling information, so eventually, we hope to offer real content here. Pardon the cliché, but I also view Breaktime, particularly, as a means of staying in direct contact with the people who pay my salary.
Andy
*Just got back from a trip and am catching up on the Board. So here's my two cents worth:-Many pros and dyis really have no idea that things are done differently in different part of the country; not right and wrong, just different. So a "Poster's Hints" would be great.-Very little here substitutes for the on-site reasoned advise of a knowledgeable person. Since there is no such thing as common sense without common background this should be explicitly stated in the Board's header for everyone's benefit.-Most of us want to stay anonymous for a variety of reasons, witness the "Board Names" we use. So, continue to leave the geopgraphic and other more detailed id up to the individual. By the same token I suspect that some posters are using this board as a free way to mine for customers. Taunton should get a piece of their action.
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Andy,
So you get to ride herd on us..you poor sod..I mean congratulations! (Get a cattle prod)
Looks like you are doing great so far, at least in letting us know why things are/aren't happening. I too really like the idea of articles reprinted online - for as much as I adore the hard copy, I can't afford to buy every past issue (sigh.) How about grouping not only related articles together as has been suggested, but also the "letters to the editor" related to each article? I am sure you get many more letters about any given artlicle than you can print in the following month's issue.
All in all, this site is by far the best I have seen on the web, and I appreciate all of the hard work that everyone (us included) puts in to make it worthy of it's print kin.
Welcome to the nut house, and go buy a round at the tavern,
Lisa
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Hi folks, I posted some info that you might find interesting earlier today under the thread, Breaktime is getting so slow. I'm posting here as well to hopefully reach more of you. We recently signed up with a web-crossing contractor who will eventually host our boards. This should speed them up considerably. I don't know when you'll see the change, but I'm happy to report progress.
Andy
*Mongo has lots of good ideas. One I like is seeing full versions of articles. I'd like to see the uncut versions of articles posted online. Would minimize the hate mail we've been receiving lately. And all those photos we had to pose for going to waste in a file folder could get 'published' too. Of course, would readers really want to wade through the rough drafts that are tightened up and polished by editors....mike
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This is Andy Engel, one of the editors at FHB. On January 11, David Kenney posted A MESSAGE FROM TAUNTON NEW MEDIA, that discussed the recent troubles we’ve had with Breaktime and how we plan to fix them. David mentioned that each magazine will eventually have an editor dedicated to web issues. At FHB, hiring new blood generally takes some time. Until our real web editor shows up, my boss, Kevin Ireton, has asked me to fill the position.
As near as I can tell, Kevin thinks I’m qualified because I spend most of my lunch hours lurking, and occasionally posting, on Breaktime. For about the 15 years prior to my hire here, I spent my lunch hours seated on a sawhorse, eating out of an Igloo cooler. The camaraderie and construction talk that I see on Breaktime takes me right back to the most memorable of those jobsite lunches.
So what exactly is my job then? In part, it’s to keep an eye on Breaktime for the rare “blatantly offensive” post and for inappropriate advertising. As a lunch-time lurker, I probably read about half of the new posts each day. Now, I’m going to try to read all of them. Because this is in addition to my regular duties - I still have articles to edit and photos to take - I may occasionally be slow on the uptake. I hope for your help, particularly in bringing problems to my attention. I don’t need to know every time that Fred and Joe mix it up, but I do want to hear about any post that detracts from the board. You can post here, e-mail me or call me at (800) 926-8776 x 420.
Also, I’m here to answer questions pertaining to the magazine or to this web site. And since the job of web editor is ill defined, I’m here to begin figuring it out. You’ve been quite clear about wanting FAQs. What else do you want from this site? Articles on line? Editors or authors available to answer questions? Videos? CodeCheck? Span tables? None of this can happen overnight, but with your input, we hope to continually make this website more useful.
Best to all of you,
Andy Engel
*Welcome Andy, congrats, always enjoyed your articles...and glad to see you get the job, albeit temporary! Hope you get a big bonus for it! Your posts have always been intelligent and logical! I can't picture anyone better suited.Lhey....how about a spell check function, I for one am too lazy to bother cutting and pasting to word and back!
*.........Andy...not exactly an FNG are you....I really like the structure of the board...'cept when it gets the slows..I would like to be able to jump from one sub-board to any other without going back to the home page..And I too would love a spellchecker....'corse I'd have to teach it to ignor som of my fonetics...HAH
*Welcome!And, as long as we are asking for things (the other guys started it!), is there any way we can add a region or city to each poster's header so that whenever someone uses the phrase, "around here" or "what I have always seen done where I live" the rest of us will have some idea where that is?I don't think that asking people to remember to add that to their posts will do it, so I'm wondering if we can add that automatically.It will add to our understanding of what advice is being given and ought to also help the advisors understand people's problems with more ease / accuracy.Just a thought.
*Dang! I was gonna' be funny and say some of the guys want a spelcheker but they beet me two it.Other than that, great job. Well...one other thing: can you whip my ISP into providing the T-1 service they always rant about?
*And another thing....I was wondering if Taunton had a record of who joined Breaktime and when. There was a discussion on that subject some time ago and it would be cool to know.By the way, has Taunton had any thoughts on the "summer get together"?Curiously,Pete Draganic
*Thanks for the good words. In answer to your questions, no, we can't do a spellchecker at present. No, we can't at present automatically put your location by your name (Although you can do so yourself, as Mike and Pete have). No, you can't jump between sub-boards, at present. And no, we don't at present know who registered when. I'm starting to see a theme here. Seriously, although we can't do them now, these are the sorts of things that we need to know in order to shape this site constructively. I'm makin' a list. Keep the ideas coming, and don't limit yourselves to Breaktime. What can we do to improve the entire site?Finally, in answer to Pete's big question, I don't believe that the Taunton Press has an official position on this summer's planned get together. Personally, I think it's cool that you folks are planning this, and I hope you can pull it off. Andy
*I have always preferred the "Little Playmate" coolers. I find the "Igloos" to be much too small and they don't keep adult beverages cold as long.
*Andy,
Joseph FuscoView Image"Whenever, therefore, people are deceived and form opinions wide of the truth, it is clear that the error has slid into their minds through the medium of certain resemblance's to that truth." Socrates
*Good idea about location. So there, now you know where I live.Nice to meet you Andy!Gaby
*I'm not qualified to peek above the shadows of those who've just posted here, but I've seen a few patterns in my own use of the site.There's SOOOO much good information here. Much of it gets archived before us newbies get a chance to read it and some of it just well, wanders all over the place. Instead of generic archives, it would be nice to see topic threads that have been condensed from the "best of" category.For instance "everything you wanted to know about hardwood floors" which would contain the complete list on record for messages posted involving anything to do with hardwood floors. Then instead of rehashing the same discussions over, or searching across many different threads and archives, a person could start by soaking up the knowlege to date first.Coming up with "best of" topics and sorting out the "useful" from the "distracting" probably goes a little beyond the expected web editor duties. Sounds like a good summer student job though.
*Uhhh, Gaby, just a warning...As you're well aware, fellow Qeubeckeners can access these pages...if they were to discover you writing in English instead of Francaiscois, you may end up in the stockade...uh, "le stoquadaronio".Contactamente le resistance immediatelyamonte.Oh riverwah, Mongo (Le Grand Mong)
*Congrats on the new assignment, Andy. And just because you're sitting at the computer at lunchtime doesn't mean you can't have a cooler handy...maybe a radio, too.
*Bain! Asti calice! Saint sacremente de tabernack, maudite. L'anglais? La trahison! (approx. trans: Well! Host of the chalice! Sainted sacrement of the tabernacle, goddammit. The English? It is treason!) That's how we swear. Y'all thought my Gaelic lessons were bad.Adrian, ex Kay-becker.
*Damn Scott,That's what they publish the 'zine for! You want to put all those folks @ Taunton out on the street standing in the pokey lines?Seriously, Andy I wish you the best of luck (and enjoyment--you are getting paid for it, right?) in your temporary position a head webby monitor. I was just about to complain about Fred and Joe when your announcement came up.[g]Although I enjoy my time reading and participating in Breaktime, I do have a few hidden reservations as to where all this information in cyberspace will lead us 1-2-3-4---10 years from now. Will we get to a point where editors and writers cultivate the subject matter for their magazines and books from the internet?? Will the "city beat" newspaper editor even leave the newsroom floor to gather his daily column? Will Federal Express get out of the manuscript/photo next day market serving editting/publishing deadlines?In 10 years, will they still be buiding libraries, publishing hardcover/softcover books?In the next 5 years will we be able to walk into a 12,000 square foot bookstore and find 200' of magazine display? Or will we walk into a bookstore the size of a small-town video store and catch our reads on CD?I'm venting here out of frustration and the anxiety of what the future holds for the traditional printed media.As I see it, the future close at hand may not be so great when the media goes from hardcopy to hard disk as their method of delivering us unadulterated images and ideas.What bothers me most is the fact that when I go into a bookstore and gather my reading material only a few are privey to what I choose to read.On the other hand, when I choose to select my reading matter from the internet or the http://WWW.....who knows who is watching? and why!Just a thought,Jeff
*Joe, congrats are in order... I never knew you two were going steady, nevermind engaged. How'd the Missus take the news?
*Charles Shultz hangs up his pen... and look what happens.
*Hi Andy,Your a good egg in my book ever since you took up for Larry Haun. Not that I want to open that topic again, just I liked that you had his back.I worked in Coos Bay one day and night in November and wondered if I'd look up and see him watching my work with his studied eyes.Good luck and don't be such a stranger.joe d
*HEY! That's blatently offensive! Andy! ANDY!
*Oh! So now it's the "Little Playmate"!!?? You're gonna find yourself spending the night in that "Igloo" if you're not careful!
*Hello Andy,I am terribly sorry, but I have no idea who you are. But if everyone here is vouching for you, then you MUST be the right man for the job.I am not a subscriber, and I have only bought one issue off the newstand. I do like your mag though, and am seriously considering becoming a subscriber. I thoroughly enjoy Breaktime, the Tavern, and all the rest of the sites here. I kinda like them the way they are, but they could use a little tweaking.Welcome, and congratulations!James DuHamel
*Well I am back from along year, just about in Bosnia. I must say that the site is definitely different from the last time I was here. I cold have used you guys while I was there. I had some interesting and unique challenges. Any way good to be back and I look foward to the talks. The site is a lot faster than I remembered. Andy I remenber being able to see the posted messages and replies in an outline format. I liked that myself. Can I set my preferences up like that? How, if so? It was the topic and a link to who posted it and so on for replies.Thanks Dave.
*Dave,Glad you made it back and in one piece, many of us here appreciate what you guys do.Andy,Congradulations, and good luck, you will need it dealing with all these perfectionists. As for location and other factors how about putting up a message when registering or posting as a guest user that has helpful hints. Most DIY get a request for more information as their first post. Just A Thought.Rick Tuk