I’m about to retire (single male) to a small farm in rural Pennsylvania. I don’t need anything fancy – basic amenities, workshop, etc. My thought is to have a cement slab put down, then have a metal industrial shed installed on it. I would finish the insides to look like a nomal house. I’m impressed by the fact that metal buidings can span 20 feet without internal supports; that gives a lot of flexibility. I feel that 2,000 sq ft is about right for everything.
Is there any downside to this concept in terms of building codes, etc. The area is totally rural, not a neighbor in view. I don’t care about resale value.
Thanks,
Paul
Replies
Traditional wood framing can also span well over 20' without internal support walls or posts. Trusses and I-joists are used all the time for that.
That said, lots of churches, schools, etc do as you propose. Not sure it will save you anything over traditional wood framing though. In PA you need to go down pretty far for footers anyway so you might as well put a basement under the thing for storage if nothing else.
I'm reminded of the folks my parents bought their farm from. There was Les and his wife, and Carl, Les's brother. Carl and the wife couldn't stand each other (she claimed Carl drank, but she'd never seen Les sober to know the difference), so Carl had his own place out behind the garage.
It was a shed roofed addition to the back of the garage, maybe 8x16 feet. Heated by a pot-belly stove. He kept the place neat as a pin, and it was really "tight" weather-wise (by Ky standards), so very comfortable. The wife kept cats (I'm thinking like 15 inside and a similar number outside) so there was cat poo everywhere in the house. Carl's shed was much nicer.
Not that that has anything to do with your question.
LMAO..that was funny as hell for some reason.
My neighbor Les has his garage full of leaf..he goes out every night with a dog and strips tobbacco while watching a 10" B&W TV on the one station that comes in.
Wife has a zillion four legged furry friends too, in the house.
I wonder if they be related?
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Edited 1/26/2009 5:47 pm ET by Sphere
LMAO..that was funny as hell for some reason.
ya, I was laughing while I scrolled down and then read yer post.
I don't feel so bad about my living conditions now.
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my metal building, I am spanning 36 feet.
http://www.acemetalbuildings.com
This is something I have been considering as well. Are you talking about those half moon shaped metal buildings or what is known as a quonset hut? My ideal quonset hut would be about 40 feet wide by about 80 to a 100 feet long. Have it finished on the inside like a normal home. Timberframed ends. I am not sure about the window details. Nearby would be a smaller hut for the garage.
Make it 128 feet long, have an attached garage.
I kind of like the vision of the main hut and a little mini look alike nearby. Of course in my vision they would be connected by an underground tunnel. But your idea certainly does make things a little easier. Would have to build a firerated partition between the two quarters... .
don't know the code you're in or the one an old acquaintance built under (mid 80s Georgia) but he had a very nice shop with 20 ceilings with an office in the corner and a 1BR apartment above it with a nice view of his pasture. It was pretty comfy and he lived their 'til he got remarried (if you don't get that hint, I'll have to hit you).
I've never been impressed with the insulation on the steel buildings I've seen and think there's a better way to do it (spray foam?) than what is standard but don't know enough about the buildings to know if that's good or bad. Window detailing might be a challenge but far from impossible. I've also seen a lot of steel buildings set too low to the ground; backfilled too high, flooding problems all resulting from siting the slab 4" to 6" too low.
edit for spell chequer
Edited 1/26/2009 7:20 pm ET by john7g
it's done... can't say alot but.. it is done... in most smaller metal buildings a bay is 25ft... about the max you want to run perlins.... now it can be 100ft wide... but you need a main frame member about every 25 ft... if you go 40ft wide... then you only need ONE main support in the center and the end walls are framed (metal or wood) can have a brick front to look almost like a standard home... the walls can be 8ft to 20 ft... you can divide it up any way you want... if you keep the wall heights down around 12 or less then you can build the whole thing with a forklift... and you want non tapered legs on the main support if you can get em.... just makes it easier to build around em...
most building manufactures can supply plans and foot requirements... you want to buy it with the insulation/ trim... and gutters...
I have not priced a 40x50 ft building in several years but before steel went stupid... i could buy the above building delivered to a site for about 12k... 3 guys could put it up in 3-4 days...
if you find an experienced crew that has some free time... a 40 x 50 with 10ft walls and a few doors and windows.... you could prob find someone to put it up on your slab for under 5k... we use to pay a guy 6k to put up 3 at a time about like that... he could do 3 in a long week (2k ea) and he wanted to do all we could give him but that was 10+yrs ago...
p
all depends what you want to do... do a search online... i'd stay away from the HUT type... just too much trouble to fit anything to the walls...
I bought a 20 x 30 steel building for my workshop. THe interior walls are 10'. About $12,000 without any doors or windows. I put it together with family and friends. Pretty easy to do. Had to rent a forklift, no big deal. The slab reguired some engineeering and had some pretty substantial footings. THe whole thing was finished for under $20,000. That was about 8 years ago. I don't know how prices are now. One thing about my experience with the metal building... Buying one is like buying a used car. Do your homework and shop around. These guys are often just resellers of someone elses product.
I think its a good idea, if you dont care how the outside looks you can make the inside as nice as you want.
When my parents built our farm shop in the early 80s they included an apartment/office into the design. Shop is a steel building, 60'x80'x14' with the apartment taking up approx 15'x25' in one corner of the building. Upstairs is bedrooms, downstairs is bath/kitchen/office.It has served its purpose very well for 20+ years, not really comfortable for living as you need to go outside the bedrooms and downstairs to get to the bathroom.It is basically a wood framed structure inside the steel structure. Steel buildings are not easy to tie into with wood framing and matching the thickness of beams and purlins is a pain. I am living in this apartment right now as we work on our home, wife is VERY ready to be out.I would suggest building yours out of wood. With lumber prices now you can't really go wrong. The only benefit of wood over steel may be the added ceiling space afforded by the clear span truss beams over a traditional wood truss. If you don't need 16' ceilings in your workshop, then wood framing with a half stacked, half trussed roof to provide a second story or loft over the living space would be ideal IMO.Good luck!
This is a steel outbuilding someone else built, I was hired to finish the inside for a local artist to use as a studio. Seemed pretty comfortable when finished. Artist wanted corrugated metal ceiling, but I'm thinking sheetrock would have been just as viable, maybe with a little more support.
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probably not much r-value in that ceiling, but maybe a t-bar ceiling, with insulation above? Or even sheetrock screwed to a t-bar grid? I think there is a t-bar grid made for that application.View Image"...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
View Image"...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
View Image"...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
she had a party to celebrate when we finished itView Image"...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
We (wife and 2 kids) lived in our 40x60 metal building for about 5 years until we could afford to build the real house. I just built normal stud walls inside the metal with sheathing on the outside of the studs. Other than no roof fraiming it was just like a real house. I raised the bathroom floor to keep the drains above the slab and kept all the plumbing along one wall.
We used about half the building and the other half was the shop. I decked the 2x8 ceiling for storage space.
We were very comfortable living in the "barn". There is a house down the street that is a metal building but with the rock veneer, trim and landscaping you can't tell unless you look closely.
Jim
The good and the bad....
One fellow bought 50 acres. Used his popup camper to stay in while working on the weekends. One night, a bug crawled into his ear canal. When he and his wife couldn't get it out, it took a trip to the Emergency Room and a medical tool to reach into there. The hard-shelled bug didn't want out, so it came out in pieces... It cost over $1,100 for that adventure.
He finally got his metal barn with 10' side walls built. In the very center it had been plumbed from the well and he built an enclosed wooden and insulated room for the bathroom, hot water heater, and shower. The flat roof room gave them added storage. For five years it was their home as they finished their new house.
The bad thing happened to another family. She is a teacher, with a daughter and husband. They also built an insulated barn first to live in, but one evening her husband killed a Copper Head near their bed.... Just make yours plenty tight. Use one or two standard 36" wide personnel doors and leaving the large overhead doors uninstalled, making the outer shell as tight as possible.
Bill
I have often thought of a metal shop building with wide overhangs. Straw bales could be stacked on the outside for insulation.
Paul, have you done an estimate of what a wood framed structure compared to the steel will cost. If I'm correct you will find the initial cost of a wood structure is from 15 to 30% less than steel. I am speaking of a framed ,sheathed ,windows and doors,sided and roof shingles on.The interior would be spanned by engineered joists and unfinished.
Insulation,drywall etc would be easier for sure.
mike
Here's a picture of my shop, which I built 6 years ago. All metal exterior, 45'L X 36' W. It's full span with trusses, no interior support posts. I could have gone alot wider, too. You will have no problem.
I built it myself in 2 weeks, had 1 helper with the siding. I set the trusses with a crane. Piece of cake.
Jeff
Jeff,
I like those cupolas!! Were they hard to get up there?
Bill
They were actually a pain in the neck. I built them on the ground, and put a pallet on forks on my bobcat. I lifted it to its capacity, 10', and had a rope tied around it. I got up on the roof, and hauled it up with the rope. It wasn't pretty, but it was effective.
Jeff
I couldn't see the shop very well so I increased the brightness and lowered the contrast a bit. Snow can be tough to take a picture of.
Edited 1/27/2009 4:36 pm by Pebble
Sorry about that....I posted the picture in the file that was before I photo-edited it for brightness. Thanks for reposting.
Jeff