Guy at the office wants to put an addition on his house, and one builder he talked with has suggested metal framing. Is there a site where I can point him for information for more info? Or has there been a decent discussion here? He lives in the Richmond VA area if it makes a difference.
“Put your creed in your deed.” Emerson
“When asked if you can do something, tell’em “Why certainly I can”, then get busy and find a way to do it.” T. Roosevelt
Replies
Metal studs have no place in the exterior walls of a residential structure. To quote Building Science Corporation:
"Metal Studs This type of stud is 300 times more conductive than a wood stud. Metal studs are prone to condensation and ghosting. Metal studs should never be used with cavity insulation because it makes them even colder. If metal studs are used they should be limited to interior walls or to the interior of rigid insulation assemblies. Metal studs should never be used below-grade unless they are separated from slabs with thermal breaks (“sill gasket”) and separated from foundation perimeter with rigid insulation."
Edited 8/6/2007 10:50 am ET by formula1
CFMF (cold formed metal framing) is probably the most common method of framing most commercial and multi-unit residential buildings. It is a very fast and cost-effective method, often replacing CMU back-up walls even for brick veneer. There was an article in FHB a few years back about it's use in single residential applications IIRC.
http://www.cssbi.ca/Eng/Residential-SSJ.html
Have a look at this site. They have a comprehensive, download-able book on the subject.
It addresses the problem of thermal bridging with simple details to solve it. A rigid foam on the exterior of the stud provides the needed thermal break.
In general there are numerous advantages to steel framing. Straight, consistent material. Doesn't shrink/dry out so "nail" pops are rare. Non-combustible. Termite proof. Pre-punched holes for wire and pipe.
I've worked with metal stud for twenty years and I'd say it's certainly a choice worth considering...buic
I do more commercial work these days than residential and if given the choice, I would still build in wood. The exterior studs would have to be structural... not the kind you buy at Home Depot or Lowes (25 ga) They would have to be 16 ga most likely.
They have advantages in commercial settings but too many drawbacks for a residential setting, IMO. It is harder to fasten sheathing & drywall to them and it is harder to attach trim and accessories to the walls once complete.
http://www.petedraganic.com/
There is also a whole section in the IRC on structural metal construction. Lots of fastening detail requirements and other details that require special attention.
US Steel tried the residential market in the late sixties and early seventies and failed. They even used their own construction crews and still couldn't compete. From what I understand it took a lot of engineering time to satisfy local code authorities, and they had to go through the approval process for each new design.
I could imagine a BI asking for engineering stamps before passing a framing inspection.
I would talk to the local AHJ befor I bought the sales pitch of the contractor pitching this deal.
Dave
Well, I passed on the canadian link to my buddy, and he's going to talk with the builder.
I looked on line briefly at a DIY site about metal studs, and one of the things they cautioned is that you can't hang cabinets off them. Bull. Here's a picture of a bank we are building. You can see 2x6 blocking in the walls, and also the metal conduit boxes, armored flex conduit, emt, and copper plumbing straps."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Weren't me that said you can't hang cabinets from them. Ya jest has to plan fer it!
Most of my carrier has been in commercial work of one form or another. Metal stud construction doesn't bother me, but a residential builder would need to convinced me he knew his sh** before I bought his sales pitch.
DaveI'm with you, I have fabricated p.lam cabinets and millwork for institutiol and commercial GCs and owners for well over 20 years. I always specify in my shop drawings for 3/4" non-com plywood blocking at both the top and the bottom for anything hung on the walls.The wall section in IRC has, as you pointed out, all the details and code info you would need. I think it would be more expensive for framing an addition, but faster and about the same cost to finish a basement.live, work, build, ...better with wood
Didn't mean to imply that you said that. Like I said, I was looking at another site, devoted to metal stud framing, and they said you can't hang cabinets. Since there are readers here who don't have any experience with metal studs, I thought I would mention that just to set the record straight."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
sorry.... hanging cabs in metal framed structures happens all the time...
plan for them...
they may have meant that you can't get away with hanging the cabs directly to the studs ONLY...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
This is from a site thumbandhammer dot com.
Strength: Wood is definitely the sturdier of the two materials. Metal tends to be flimsy, but once the drywall is screwed to it, it is strong and rigid. However, metal would not be suitable for hanging cabinets or heavy mirrors. Metal framing has no structural strength and can only be used for partition walls.
Theere is no mention on the site about blocking for cabinets.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Edited 8/10/2007 12:16 pm ET by FastEddie
I know this...
if there is no mention of blocking they then must be referring not to use metal studding as stand alone to hang cabs from... Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Got a call from a supervisor one day while we were working in one of our power plants. Seem like a large section of binder bins above a desk at our corprate headquaters had suddenly fallen off the wall. Missed the employee that had been working there, but trashed her PC monitor, phone, desk top and chair.
Hung on the wall with piffen screws into metal studs by professionals.
We worked 26 straight hours taking down every binder bin in every office, cutting out drywall and adding blocking, hot mud the dw patches, etc. Then the company hired the same pros to reinstall the heavey azz units agian.
I ask the following Monday what kind of screws they used on the reinstall. When they told me the same ones that they were hung with the first time, I lost my mind. Called our corporate Safety guru and told him what was wrong. I got talked down to so bad I almost said "screw it, I don't care how many of you shirts get hurt when these things come down agian", but then remember my place in the food chain, and the friends that I had working in that building. Took the issue to one of our Structural engineers. He was not only higher on the food chain than me, but had the credentials to be listened to. They paid the contractor to come back and replace every screw in every unit with ones speced by the engineer.
Hanging cabinets on metal studs can be hazrdous to ones health if things aren't properly planned and specified.
All I ever got out of that fiasco was 8 hours at time and a half and 7 hours of double time plus the knowledge that my wife and friends working in that building were now a little safer.
Dave
Do you have to use FRT blocking in those walls or can they be regular lumber?
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
We don't have to use fire retardant. But we did spec pressure treated for all 2x material on the job."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I did the roof on a monster building this winter and all the framing was steel. Steel studs, trusses, I-beams the whole package.
The only thing I can add to this is my personal experience, screw everything to the studs. No nails. The guys sheeting the roof on that job used nails and the plywood is coming up everywhere. Over 100 spots so far and it's only been 6 months.
Huge problem now. For them.
Matt
I do metal studs and trusses for a living. One day our boss came out with a sales rep. and they demonstrated the ringshank nail system for attatching exterior gypsum or sheathing. "It is the wave of the future, production is way higher"
Our boss bought the set-up and a pallet of nails. So far every forman has refused to use them on their jobs. So they sit in the shop gathering dust slowly getting buried. ; ^ ) Mike
Trust in God, but row away from the rocks.
Thats what these guys were using, it was a cordless coil gun much like a Paslode, and they were using some ring shank setup with it. Gypfast seems to stick in my mind as the name of the gun, but I may be way off.
So tell your boss to sell them on ebay, the wave of the future just sank the Titanic.
Matt