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Hi,
Being interested in all things WWII, I’ve got a question for those of you who served (in any conflict), or for those of you who know better than I do:
You always hear about the 82nd Airborne or the 101st….WHat happened to the 1-81st Airborne??? Did they ever exist??? If not, how come it’s called the 82nd and not the 76th, or 54th….you get my drift.
Another question, can someone explain the hierarchy of it all, i.e., how many guys in a squadron??? in a regiment??? in an army?? in a batallion???
I’d apperciate it if you could lay out the hierarchy for me and what’s the name of the leader or each grouping.
Does the same division makeup of the Army apply to the Marines??? Airforce??? Also did the same grouping of soldiers apply to the Germans and the Russians???
Thanks!!! (It’s tough watching the WWII movies when they say “The Russins fielded 3 Guards Army, 2 Tank Armies….” and you don’t have any reference as to the size of this.
Also, can u recommend a good book on military strategy??? (I know about “THe Art of War”, but are there some book(s) that talk about WWII strategy??)
Replies
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Doug, I was in the Army during Viet Nam but I didn't get sent over there. I have had the same thoughts from time to time, and here's my non-expert opinion. There have generally been army divisions numbered from 1 to 101, but through the years they have been de-activated or converted to national guard or reserve units. The designation of airborne or whatever was added to a units name as the need arose and as they evolved for a specific purpose, like the 10th Mountain Div in NY. (But I think there have only been two airborne divisions, 82nd and 101st.) The makeup of an army or corps etc has changed through the years as the big brass rethinks the image. Most everything is based on an infantry unit; used to be 3 or 4 infantry battalions made a regiment, and 3 or 4 infantry regiments, with assorted support units (engineers, signal, arty, etc) made a division. But I think the regiment has been dropped. Also, two or more divisions were called a corps, and two or more corps were called an army.
I was in the 25th Infantry, and we had 9 infantry battalions, 3 field arty, one air defense arty, one each signal, combat engineer, transportation, maintenance, armored cav, aviation, and a couple of others. What used to really confuse me was the sub-unit designations. One of our infantry battalions was the 1/27th Wolfhounds. I think that meant 1st battalion 27th regiment but I'm not sure ( I was in the 125th Signal so I didn't get too familiar with the grunts).
As far as size, a battalion has about 500 men (soldiers) and a division has about 5,000. I don't have a clue about the other branches.
*doug... it changes all the time....ie.. a civil war army was organized differently than WWI and that was different than WWII.. which was different than Korea & 'Nam..the smallest unit in army infantry is a fire team.. either two or three... which are organized into squads... which are the base for a platoon...platoons make up compannies.. and companies make up battalions... which form divisions... artillery is organized alittle differntly:their base is the gun section.. two gun sections make a platoon... thre platoons form a battery,, three batteries , plus a service battery & a headqwuarters battery make a battalion battalions make up division artillery marines are organized a little differently, they have more organic attachments and are designed for more independent command..every organization is spelled out in a TOE & a TOA, table of equipment, & table of authorized personnel...this is all from memory of 25 years ago, so some iof it is wrong and some of it has changed...the air force & navy are organized very differently.... but all of thh branches have enlisted personnel, non-commissioned officers, warrant officers & officers.. and all of the services have equivelent ranks from E1 to O10....in peacetime the Coast Guard comes under the Treasury Dept.. and in wartime it comes under the Navy... right now the Coast Guard is under the Treasury... what does that tell you ?
*They taught us this in Air Force Basic Training. That was a long time ago, but I think it is (small to large): Squad, Flight, Squadron, Group, Wing, Numbered Air Force, Major Command. In reality, most of the Air Force is not organized in this ideal fashion (not sure any of it is).So far as I ever could make out, the numbers are pretty arbitrary. There was a certain hierarchy, a squadron numbered 3787 fell under a group number 3700-something. But we also had a flight training wing with some completely different number, and the hospital I worked at had no number at all, just a name.Dave
*Oh, by the way. Being interested in World War II, you aren't interested in the Air Force at all. It was formed after the end of the war, in 1947 as I recall. It was formed of the Army Air Corps.Dave
*Mike,The Coast Guard falls under the Department of Transportation during peace time. At least all the Coast Guard stations around here (and there are LOTS of them) have D.O.T. written all over them. They run all the ferries around here too.James DuHamel
*This is the US Armed Forces Order of Battle (i.e. an org chart of the entire armed forces). http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/9059/usaob.htmlA quick search of the internet will also turn up org charts and explainations from all sorts of sources, here are some examples:http://www.10thmtndivassoc.org/organization.htmlhttp://www.soft.net.uk/entrinet/infantry_division.htmhttp://www.eastmill.com/103rd/compos/divcom.htmhttp://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/general_military/32415http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/blafbase-4.htm?iam=dpile&terms=squadron+flight+wing
*james, you're right.. i forgot that they transferred the CG from Treasury to DOT....recko... there were a few more Airborne Divisions in WWII also... i'd have to look them up..but .....books about the strategy... Ridgeway...(airborne)Patton...(armor)Eisenhower..Allied Supreme Commanderthe campaigns of Africa... Italy..Europe.. and the Russian front...one of the greatest western strategists was MacArthur... so some of the books about him...
*James- I heard you had to be over six feet tall to be in the Coast Guard.........If their boat sinks they can walk to shore.hehehe
*Army history sitehttp://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/
*A couple of good books on WWII, although more about men than strategy or tactics, are Stephen Ambrose's Band of Brothers and Citezen Soldiers.My Dad was a WWII vet. I got him to talk about his service only about a year ago, and I filled several pages with notes. A good thing. He died in March. Although it wasn't Dad's outfit, an honor guard from the 82nd Airborne came out for his funeral. They played taps, the VFW did a 21-gun salute and the Airborne honor guard folded the flag to present to my stepmom. I cried like a baby. A few times since then I've gone through boxes of his photos of Iceland, France and Belgium during the war that made me realize just how little I know about his life. If you know a WWII vet, talk to him. These guys are going fast.Andy
*Andy,My dad served aas well. but he was in from late '46 thru '47 (I think). He's still alive and I do talk to him about it, but he didn't see any action, (well....at least not THAT type of action).I've often thought about starting up a friendship with some vets in a nursing home. It seems a little selfish on my part, though.
*i I've often thought about starting up a friendship with some vets in a nursing home. It seems a little selfish on my part, though. Nope. There are a lot of folks in nursing homes or VA hosp who would love the company.There's a VA hosp in Bedford, don't think that's too far from you. They have ambalatory patients that essentially live there. One in Jamaca Plains and Brockton, but don't know if they have "live-ins". Maybe one closer to you.
*Airborne!Mike
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Hi,
Being interested in all things WWII, I've got a question for those of you who served (in any conflict), or for those of you who know better than I do:
You always hear about the 82nd Airborne or the 101st....WHat happened to the 1-81st Airborne??? Did they ever exist??? If not, how come it's called the 82nd and not the 76th, or 54th....you get my drift.
Another question, can someone explain the hierarchy of it all, i.e., how many guys in a squadron??? in a regiment??? in an army?? in a batallion???
I'd apperciate it if you could lay out the hierarchy for me and what's the name of the leader or each grouping.
Does the same division makeup of the Army apply to the Marines??? Airforce??? Also did the same grouping of soldiers apply to the Germans and the Russians???
Thanks!!! (It's tough watching the WWII movies when they say "The Russins fielded 3 Guards Army, 2 Tank Armies...." and you don't have any reference as to the size of this.
Also, can u recommend a good book on military strategy??? (I know about "THe Art of War", but are there some book(s) that talk about WWII strategy??)