Replies

1. 
   Mike_Mahan | Feb 13, 2016 08:31pm | #1

   Remodel.

   If you get through the permiting process with this as  a remodel, you can go on occupying the house during construction. It's not a matter of what you are allowed to do it's a matter of what you can put up with. It might be like camping. That being said, your inspections are most likely, underground utilities, foundation, framing, rough plumbing and electrical, lath and drywall, final. An inspector is not likely to sign off on partially finished electrical work, but if you're on good terms you might get 'em to sign off on partially complete drywall hanging. You usually have a year to finish, but if you are constantly making progress this can be extended. To get final you need only the electrical finished, one coat of tape on the drywall, one bathroom functioning, a functioning kitchen sink, and the building fully enclosed. You can paint, do floorcoverings, tile,  cabinets, and such at your leasure. Don't ask officials too many questions about what you can do. Remember it's better to ask for forgivness than  permission.

1. 
   builderChops | Feb 13, 2016 09:25pm | #2

   Thanks Mike.  Couple other questions it you don't mind.  I will try to keep this short.  House is single story built in '61 in San Pedro. I pretty sure the whole foundation would have to be underpinned along the exterior walls to allow for the 2nd story, right?  That being said the 2x4 exterior walls gotta go and move to 2x6 for the weight which will include a clay tile roof instead on the composite it has now.  I just don't know what of the structure or slab would be usable.  I guess the architect/engineer could answer this.  When you say the electrical needs to be finished, does that mean with fixtures in place or could it all be tied in to the panel but wire nut capped on the other side and boxes cover plated? Only the kitchen sink, no means to cook necessary?  I want an electrical contractor to design the electrical needs with me and build the plans.  I want to pay for all the materials and wire the house myself, leaving the sub panel and main panel tie in for him to do.  I would be paying basically for him to check my work against his plans and be a consultant.  Ever heard of that?

   -Chops

1. 
   mark122 | Feb 14, 2016 09:00am | #3

   Chops, 

   not meaning to be harsh...(gotto love those kinds of intros huh???) but what your describing is a contractors nightmare. 

   there are tradesmen that are willing to put their license on the line like what your describing but (at least the ones i deal with) do not.

   The, Ill purchase all material you furnish labor, is a red flag to me. When/if i take work on under these terms there is usaully a considerablly larger profit margin factored in because I know the job will be a continuous, "Oh while your at it could you do this, or I cant figure this out...", constant material shortage, wrong kind of material, or subpar material (that was a great deal).

   In most cases, a remodel that exceeds a pre set threshold (monetary in comparison to home value) will be required to be brought up to current code regardless of whats being done. 

   Does your city allow you to pull the general building permit as a homeowner? If it does, then the city will view you as the general contractor and it may be a bit easier to get by not completing certain things. If the electrical work is going to require a temp pole, then you may be required to sign affidavit stating you will complete all electrical work in x amount of days before they sign a temporary meter release.

   dont know california code but it would be shocking to hear you could not achieve requirements for a second floor with 2x4 walls. if you can not achieve it altering your current building and will be replacing all exterior walls then i would recommend seriously considering tearing down and starting from scratch. in most cases, it will be faster and cheaper to do so.

2. 
   renosteinke | Feb 14, 2016 09:30am | #4

   Reality Check Time

   Someone has to tell the king he has no clothes ....

   All told, chances are the job will be done quicker, cheaper, and better ..... if you just tear down the existing house and start over. CAN a floor be added? Sure it 'can' .... but track down the "Holmes on Homes" episodes where Mike got called in to straighten things out.

   The customer buying materials is always a bad idea. First, you're NOT going to save money buying things yourself. Second, you're NOT going to have on hand every bit and piece I'll find myself needing. All you're going to do is delay things - and undermine your relationship with the contractor by telling him you think he's dishonest.

   Likewise, if you hire me to do the job, you hire ME to DO the job. You're not my helper, you're not an apprentice. As both customer and laborer, there's a conflict of interest. Plus, you insult me by asserting that you can perform a trade I've taken a lifetime to master- not a good start to our relationship.

   You generally are not allowed to use a building until the inspector issues a 'certificate of occupancy.' While the inspector has his own guidelines, this generally means that the job is, essentially, COMPLETE. Perhaps a minor amount of painting remains, or a punch-list to complete. Electrical devices must be installed, and covers on.

   Inspections are typically done in stages .... that is, each stage for the entire project at one time. Inspectors do not like 'partial' inspections; such complicates things quite a bit.

   Right about now, some will think "well, I'll be clever." Or, 'I'll build where there are no inspections.' Good luck with that! There are reasons jobs are done the way that they are. I think half of an apprenticeship is learning how jobs are done, just how this 'concert' is played by the 'orchestra.' Vary from this at your peril; the result will be greatly increased time and expense.

3. 
   Mike_Mahan | Feb 14, 2016 12:08pm | #5

   Various issues

   There is no question that the foundation will require extensive work. Codes have changed alot since '61. Most of the LA area has expansive soil problems, that often require drastic solutions. 2x4 walls are a non issue. 2x6 would not be required. Gravity dead loads such as clay tile roofing are also a non issue. Requirements for resting lateral loads will be extensive from the foundation on up.

   If you already have utility connections you are better permitting it as a remodel, even if you need to upgrade the utilities. You can usually upgrade your electrical service at the beginning of the job. You still might want to tear everything down. Most jurisdictions tend to be more flexible on remodels as far as scheduling is concerned since they realize that the logistics of the job are often different from new construction. You might have to pay for extra inspections. You don't need a certificate of occupancy if a building is already occupied legally.

   Many general contractors are willing to let home owners do whole trades themselves if the home owner takes full responsibility. That will be specified in the contract. As a general contractor I'd never let a client take on a partial trade as you have suggested for your electrical. Either do the whole trade or let the general sub it out. Residential electrical plans are not very detailed so the electrician needs to know exactly how to do things and take responsibility for all the work. So unless you have a friend or relation who's an electrician don't even think about this. Final electrical requires all switches, outlets, coverplates, and misc. be in place and finished. I've seen jobs finalled without all the light fixtures in place, but the boxes need to be capped off, not open.

   I'll often let a client pay directly for materials, but I do the ordering from my suppliers. The advantage to me is I don't have to tie up my capital. The advantage to them is they get to use their credit card. If I have to pick stuff up or be responsible for delivery I'll charge for that.

   I often tell clients to be aware that a project will be the most difficult and taxing thing they'll ever do. If you are in a relationship it's going to be strained. Good luck.

   You are going to need a very good relationship with your designer and contractor.

2. 
   junkhound | Feb 14, 2016 02:51pm | #6

   1.  Go IN PERSON to your local permit office, talk to them, th;ey are the only ones who can tell you your local rules.  Spcificiall7y find out if local laws allow DIY and to what extent   (Happily in WA state, the state CONSITUTION has been interperted to allow 100% DIY on anything, with some limits, almost no limits on residential except advanced septic)

   2. Determine what your skill level is .  I have found over the years that if you DIY anything,  DIY 100%, and I mean 100% yourself/family physically, NOT calling a contractor on the celllphone or hiring somebody hanging out in front of the big box store.

   3.  If you are physically able and not too stupid, you CAN DIY 100%, depending on local laws.  .You may have to spend a few hundered hours learning some topics.  A good place to learn is to volunteer a few hundred hours at habitat (or be born into a family of 100% DIY and have learned it all as a kid).  

   4.  Material costs:  If you treat as a hobby and not as an expense, garage sales, periodic perusal of ReStore or Habitat or surplus stores and Craigslist free column are the best material sources YOU CAN build for under $10 a sq ft (everything, no joke), but take a year or so planning and collection. 

   I have built 4 houses 100% DIY with just immediate family - every nail, every shovel or bucket of dirt dug, every roof tile, every plumbing fixture, all carpet, flooring etc, 100%   The most recent was an 800 sq ft alternate dwelling unit that was built for $8 sq ft, plus $1.87 sq ft for permits.  Includes a 800 sq ft basement shop, total of under $10K for everything. 

   ONLY thing hired was concrete truck delivery and the concrete pump, if you consider those 'hired'.  ONLY item not hauled ourselves.

   I dislike doing concrete forms, and actually did get one bid for the 800 sq ft ADU, quote was greater than my entire cost for the entire building.

   Repeat:  Go IN PERSON to the building dept and see what your locality requires. 

   BTW, a few years ago the supreme court ruled that any codes enacted into law are public domain.  You can get almost any code online, no need to pay ridiculously big bucks for a copy of a code.  Here in WA, all codes as ammended are 100% online as part ot the legislative record., but CA probably too cheap to have that available?

   Note: DIY can be good looking, pic is the south wall of one wing of the 800 sq ft ADU

1. 
   Mike_Mahan | Feb 14, 2016 02:58pm | #7

   Here's a link to building codes. public.resource.org. The city of LA has it's own code.

   I didn't mean for you not to ask about codes, or inspections, but only about living in the place during construction. I've found that inspectors are often more reasonable than counter people.

   In CA you can act as your own contractor.

1. 
   builderChops | Feb 14, 2016 04:15pm | #8

   Thanks a ton

   Thank you guys for taking the time to get me headed in the right direction.  Couple of things I have done.  I went to my local Building and Safety and then to the main LA branch to try to pull everything I could about my home.  There was virtually nothing.  No electrical, no mechanical.  Just the lot info with setback stuff.  while I was there though I did ask them about my home and if I could pull the permits myself.  They said absolutely I could be an owner/builder (2 years to finish) BUT I take all the responsibilty to vet the contractors.  I guess they look into whether someone is legit when you hire out.

   Ok, here it is.  My home is currently valued @ 600K and comps in the area are 525-615K.  My home is 1 of 10 designs of which they built 200 in my neighborhood.  Most of them look so different though.  I can tell by the garage the ones that match.  In any case I have 200K to do this remodel/construction.  In most places in the US that would work but my fear is that the 2nd story, new open floor plan and fact that I'm moving all 4 rooms upstairs means more like 350K.  It could take 15 years to get the equity out of it.  I will be the most expensive house within 4 miles.  Why not just buy a new house?  What I want would be something in the 850K range and the property taxes would be ridiculous so remodel is better (CA Proposition 13).  

   I would never want to insult anyone and their trade.  I know the lifetime of knowledge and experience gained by professionals.  I just need a way to get this done on a specific budget with a 10% overage allowance.

   I was really hoping to do plumbing (minus sewer), electrical (as stated above), K-lath and paper (plaster done by professional) myself to save some cash.

   I have budgeted the following:

   Architect and Engineer, Temp Pole, fence and porto, storage, living (my gf owns a condo nearby), dumpsters and takeaway.

   I have a degree in electrical engineering (NOT ELECTRICIAN) so I was able to use my civil and mechanical knowledge to draw out a floor plan but the architect will have to handle the elevation, and his engineer the engineering.  I should at least get to that point and bid it out to see where I'm at but I think I already know it's a pipe dream.  Thanks again and speaking direct to me is not rude, it's because you actually are here to help!!

   -Chops

1. 
   DanH | Feb 14, 2016 04:45pm | #9

   Keep in mind that a 1430 sq ft house probably isn't a $600,000 house, but a $100,000 house on a $500,000 lot.

2. 
   Mike_Mahan | Feb 15, 2016 09:17am | #10

   Just remember that under Prop 13 you will be reassesed on the improvements.