1. Can general lighting be on the same circuit as receptacles?
2. How many receptacles can be on one circuit?
3. I want to be able to light a room brightly for cleaning, but also have it less bright for watching tv, etc. What’s the preferred method for achieving this? One central light with a dimmer? Recessed lighting? Puck lights? Track lightng? A combination of these?
4. Are ceiling fans still in fashion? Should I make sure each room can accomodate one during the rough-in?
5. Are remote dimmers a good choice?
6. What is the best height for a washing machine receptacle?
7. What is the best height for a dryer receptacle?
Thanks in advance for any feedback.
New knowledge is priceless.
Used knowledge is even more valuable.
Replies
First the National Electric Code is just a book of suggestions.
It has absoluting no meaning until a SPECIFIC version is adopted by the local legislation ALONG WITH LOCAL AMENDMENTS.
"1. Can general lighting be on the same circuit as receptacles?" Yes
2. How many receptacles can be on one circuit?" No limit for residential.
However, I have heard of local amendments that do limit limit the number of receptacles and other that prohibit or discourage lighting on receptacles circuits.
PERSONALLY I like the idea of using 20 amp circuits for use with receptacles. And 15 amp for lights. The reason that for lighting you often run 3 conductor wiring and you have boxes multigang boxes and box fill becomes an issue.
Not as important for new construction, but fishing 14-3 is much, much, much easier thatn fishing 12-3.
And I like the idea of have 2 independent circuit in room whenever you are doing any work in room that might affect the electrical. Still have lights if you are replacing a recpetacle and you can plug in a lamp or trouble light if you are replacing a light fixture.
"3. I want to be able to light a room brightly for cleaning, but also have it less bright for watching tv, etc. What's the preferred method for achieving this? One central light with a dimmer? Recessed lighting? Puck lights? Track lightng? A combination of these?"
Yes.
It all depends. I would start with the type and amount of lighting that you want and all of the different activities that you might want in the room. Then depending on the combination of lights that you have you might want to add dimmers, and/or have them on different switches, and/or extra lights.
"4. Are ceiling fans still in fashion? Should I make sure each room can accomodate one during the rough-in?"
Fashion. I still have my leasure suit. But regardless I would use a fan rated box and 3 conductor cable between the light and switch so that you can have independent fan/light control.
"5. Are remote dimmers a good choice?"
For what? Maybe, maybe no. What do you want to do and why?
"6. What is the best height for a washing machine receptacle?
7. What is the best height for a dryer receptacle?"
Same height as the water/drain box.
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
>>> 6. What is the best height for a washing machine receptacle?
>>> 7. What is the best height for a dryer receptacle?"
>>> Same height as the water/drain box.I agree, but one thing I do try is to place electrical ABOVE water (both supply and drain), whenever possible. Probably more of an issue with surface mount, like in a garage or basement, but still. It never hurts to keep electrical boxes out of the path of dripping water.
BillHartmann has already covered most of this, I'll throw in a couple of thoughts.
>>4. Are ceiling fans still in fashion? Should I make sure each room can accomodate one during the rough-in?"<<
I have central air, but still have ceiling fans in all bedrooms. Whenever I install a ceiling box it is a fan rated box. Use the deepest wall box which will fit - 3-1/2" to handle two part fan switches easily. 3 conductor cable for same reason as Bill.
If building from scratch I would make every ceiling box fan rated (and mount them appropriately!). This would include any boxes in a porch ceiling. Easy to do when everything is open - harder later. Fan rated boxes are also needed for many chandeliers. I like the metal boxes with machine screw thread fixture mounting holes.
A fan provides 1) white noise which I find restful and 2) a breeze, which allows me to set the AC to a warmer temperature but still be very comfortable.
>>6. What is the best height for a washing machine receptacle?
7. What is the best height for a dryer receptacle?"<<
I like 44" to 46" from center of box to finished floor - plug will be above the back of the machines for easy access.
Jim
1) Sometimes.
2) In theory no limit.
3) Yes. (Keep in mind that CFLs aren't dimmable.)
4) Yes and no.
5) A hard-wired dimmer is generally cheaper and easier to maintain.
6) Above the top of the unit, so the unit can be plugged/unplugged without moving, and so that any water leaks are below the electrical.
7) Ditto.
(Keep in mind that CFLs aren't dimmable.)
There are dimmable CFLs available, but the standard inexpensive ones are not dimmable.
I have a friend who formally worked as an electrician's helper. He's telling me that you can't put bathroom lights on the same circuit as the bathroom receptacles under any circumstances. Is that true?
New knowledge is priceless.
Used knowledge is even more valuable.
"I have a friend who formally worked as an electrician's helper. He's telling me that you can't put bathroom lights on the same circuit as the bathroom receptacles under any circumstances. Is that true?"No, there are 2 rules that you can use for bathrooms.One is you can run a 20 amp circuit ONLY for receptacles and it can service multiple bathrooms.The 2nd is you can run a 20 amp circuit to ONLY ONE bathroom and use it for the receptacles and also for the lights and fan..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
One is you can run a 20 amp circuit ONLY for receptacles and it can service multiple bathrooms.
The 2nd is you can run a 20 amp circuit to ONLY ONE bathroom and use it for the receptacles and also for the lights and fan.
Don't forget that bathroom receptacles also need to be on a GFCI.
you can't put bathroom lights on the same circuit as the bathroom receptacles under any circumstances. Is that true?
Bill was faster (and more accurate, again) than I.
He did not mention, even though he has before (not that I can remember when, but I do) that there is a logic to lights on one, receptacles on the other. If the recptacles are overloaded and the CB trips, not having the illumination on the same circuit is a very good thing.
I may (and will neither affirm nor deny) knowledge of parents with multiple female teenagers who like the ability--if a bit over the top--to get the attention of the riot in the bathroom by tripping the breaker with all of the hair-care and musical implements on it (design committee over-ruling any use of flashbangs as detrimental to the paint & wallpaper<dang it>).Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
One good reason not to put lights and outlets on the same circuit is that you reduce the ultimate load which may be place on the outlets. For example, if you have 8 100 watt lights on a circuit with outlets and you plug a 1800 wt heater or other heavy load device in an outlet you will blow the 15amp breaker. Whereas if you did not have lights on that circuit you would be fine. The lights can be considered a base load always drawing power reducing the available power for the outlets.
I got my own question.
when I installed a light fixture, I attached the light's ground wire to the green screw on the mounting bar. there is a copper wire in the box, but not attached to the bar. how does the grounding still work if the two are not connected?
It takes studs to build a house
It does not work as a ground. All the grounds need to make some sort of a connection, all the way back to the panel, for there to be a ground.
If it is a metal box then the ground will connect to the box and the strap will be grounded through the screws.If it is a plastic box then I will take the ground wire and twist it around the screw on the bar, but let the end stick out about 2".Then I can connect the ground wire ont the fixture to the stub..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
In general, all the bare or green ground wires in a box should be connected together. The technique for doing this varies and sometimes requires a bit of cleverness.You should, if possible, arrange things so that the fixture can be removed without having to totally disassemble the ground bundle. In particular, if there is more than one romex cable entering the box, all those grounds should be tied together first, and a single "pigtail" brought out to ground the fixture.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
Good answer with one additional caveat.
If the box is metal, a pigtail should come from the ground screw in the box to the ground bundle.
Metal box "ground bundle" = all grounds from romex + pigtail to fixture ground screw + pigtail from box ground screw.
Plastic box "ground bundle" = all grounds from romex + pigtail to fixture ground screw.
A grounded metal box should "automatically" ground the light fixture via the bracket screws - our local inspectors want the ground pigtail also - their rules, I just live by them.
JimNever underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
Ok, another question. Rex Cauldwell's book says that the dining room is automatically considered to be a part of the kitchen according to the NEC, and that no light or receptacle from the dining room can connect to any other circuit accept a kitchen circuit. In other words, a wall adjoining a dining room and living room could NOT share a circuit. I can't find this stated anywhere else. Is it legit?New knowledge is priceless.
Used knowledge is even more valuable.
That has some truth in it, but not exactly right.You are required to have 2 OR MORE 20 amp small appliance circuits. Those serve the kitchen counter tops and any general purpose receiptacles in the kitchen. They can not service any fixed appliacne except for the refigerator (optional), gas stove, and wall clock. No lights, vent fans or other items can be on those circuits.Those small appliacne circuits can also serve a pantry and dining room.Note that it is a MINIMUM of 2 small appliance circuits. You can run more and would probably have another for the dining room and possibly the kitchen wall receptacles. But it would still have the characteristics of a small appliacne circuit. IE 20 amp and restricted to receptacles as mentioned above.There are no restrictions on any lighting or vent fans in the kitchen or dining room. They can be on circuits that also serve lights and/or receptacles in other parts of the house.However, you are also allowed to have a switched receptacle that is designed to control lighting in a dining room or kitchen. That receptacle would not be connected to one of the small appliacne circuits, but would be treated as lighting..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
When I remodeled my kitchen, I put in four 20 amp small appliance circuits (plus separate circuits for dishwasher, garbage disposal, and microwave). A hallway runs behind my kitchen that was over 10' long but in which there was no receptacle as required by code for new construction (since this was not required when the house was built, I really didn't need to add one). Anyway, I was allowed to feed the receptacle from one of the four kitchen small appliance circuits. The inspector seemed to feel that only two kitchen counter receptacles needed to meet the strict NEC requirements for kitchen small appliance circuits. So, while some inspectors may take a strict interpretation of what is allowed on additional small appliance circuits, some may not require the strict interpretation that you indicate.
BillHartmann beat me in his post .19 -- I was working - thankfully inside - a little drywall repair.
JimNever underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
1. Can general lighting be on the same circuit as receptacles?
Yes, but, without specifics, it can be as bad an idea as good.
I, personally, do not like it at all in new construction. Bare walls are easy to wire, and modern panels with many slots are not hard to come by. Does not bother me a bit to see two circuits per room, and dedicated circuits where functions are known (a/v stuff, desks, server/demark rooms, major appliances, etc.) But, that might also be from having had to make one too many compromises in existing work, too.
2. How many receptacles can be on one circuit?
Round numbers, at least one, typically no more than 10--your results will vary by design and AHJ limits.
3. I want to be able to light a room brightly for cleaning, but also have it less bright for watching tv, etc. What's the preferred method for achieving this? One central light with a dimmer? Recessed lighting? Puck lights? Track lighting? A combination of these?
That's more of a question about lighting design than electrical design.
Lighting design is a whole entire thread question of its own.
And, you left a variable out of the question, too. It's not just the fixture and lamping, but the control choice, too. Some want one switch. Some want a remote. Some want a combination. Others need a tie-into a/v controls. Each of those affects what and how many lamps are used and in what ways, which then "drives" fixture choice, which then establishes the service requirements.
I did one where the six-button scene controller switch was there only to meet the local code's requirements--the combination neon-lv-incandescent-cfl lighting design was really run off the wireless keypad for the a/v system.
4. Are ceiling fans still in fashion? Should I make sure each room can accommodate one during the rough-in?
Fashion changes, true enough. Personally, I always use/specify fan-rated mounts for any ceiling fixture any more (and the stronger the better). But, that's probably from coming in behind one too many fan installs relying on the one nail in the octagon box, too . . .
5. Are remote dimmers a good choice?
Depends. Would that be dimmers on a remote, or dimmers distant from the source (like a 3-way switch leg, perhaps)? A scene controller can be better. Remotes for the fan switches are pretty cool--but they have a frustratingly high failure/call-back rate. Check out Insteon and X10 for some interesting alternatives there.
6. What is the best height for a washing machine receptacle?
Neatest install is level to the washer plumbing box; I've let my arm be twisted into "level" with top of box. I used to insist on ground-up and even with the 'backsplash' height of the washer, to discourage sticking gang or multiplier "plugs" into the same receptacle (for irons, space heaters, fans, whatever) as the washer. If I get to pick, I rather like a "clock" receptacle box with its single outlet.
7. What is the best height for a dryer receptacle?
Same height as the washer receptacle. Except for stacked units. Then, I like washer receptacle on one side of the washer box, and dryer on the other. (Though, I've been talked into "all in a row" but, usually in situations where stacked was the only answer.)
Threads like this one would have me pulling my hair ... if I had any!
The first few questions seek code book answers - a mistake. As the beginning of the NEC plainly states, the code is not a 'how to' manual.
The next few address issues that are not addressed by the code, but are covered by 'trade practice.' You're not going to learn the trade from reading a forum.
The later questions are clearly design issues ..... so, why don't we answer ALL the questions by starting over? lacking any preconceived notions, you might even make some good decisions. :D
First of all: What are you trying to accomplish? Define your needs and desires. Don't worry about what 'everybody else' does .... what do YOU want?
Look realistically at how things will be used. For example, what do you need to know when you go to the breaker panel? You need to know which breaker is the one you need. This, in turn, suggests that you're better served by planning your circuits so you can easily lable them (ie: bedroon receps, bedroom lights, den receps, living room receps, etc), rather than planning your circuits to use the least wire possible, or the fewest breakers possible, or any other irrelevant criteria.
Now .... where to put the receptacles, and how many? Look at where the furniture and appliances will go. You want the receptacles where you can easily reach them. That is almost always NOT where they are often found (like behind the couch). You ought not depend on the use of power strips and extension cords to make your house 'work.' If you know what will be on the circuit, you can add up watts, and see if you need a second circuit.
Lighting should generally be kept apart from the receptacle circuits. Not a code requirement (usually), it sure makes it nice if the lights stay on after the space heater trips the breaker.
As to the style of the lighting ..... experiment. Get a couple trouble lights, and move them about to simulate light styles and placement. For example .... in your TV room example .... you might consider recessed 'cans,' around the perimeter of the room, with independently switched cans over the seating area. Using different trim styles, the perimeter cans can be used to 'wash' the walls with light - this will light up the room, yet have minimal glare on the TV. The cans over the seating will use different trims, to shine straight down - so you can read, yet not have them glaring off the screen. Just an idea.
Wherever you place a light in the middle of the ceiling, plan on it being a fan/ chandelier some day. Strong box, securely mounted, with two control wires and a neutral. Just in case.
To add what has be said, I think there are code requirements which state something to the affect that you must have one circuit for each 900 sqft of living space for outlets. Not sure about the 900 sqft, but that gives you something to look into.
I'll pass on most of your questions since I'm not an electrician, but offer these thoughts on two of them.
Fashionable, or not, ceiling fans are great. Mine run year round blowing down in summer and up during the winter. During the winter, they're on low speed and gently circulate the warmer air near the ceiling around the room. During the summer, they can be run faster to create a nice breeze. I suspect that fans will become "green" since they can reduce the need for heating and AC. Even if you don't install fans, wiring for them will never be easier than during construction.
I like dimmers, but CFL bulbs won't work on with them. Unless CFL technology changes, dimmers may become a thing of the past.
Unless CFL technology changes, dimmers may become a thing of the past.
CFL bulbs that work with dimmers are commercially available.
I haven't seen them, but that's good to know. Now, if I can just get over how ugly the damn things are. I don't mind using them where they aren't visible, but they look really dorky if they can be seen. - lol
I haven't seen them, but that's good to know.
Here is a link that mentions a couple, a google search on "dimmable CFL" will bring up a bunch
http://www.thegreenguide.com/blog/freshfinds/340
There are dimmable CFLs, but generally the dimming action is less than stellar. Don't invest in more than one or two of a type at a time before you try them in real life conditions.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader