Two things went wrong this week rehabbing a house. The general contractor pulled out the toilet bowl and sat it on the patio. I discovered that it is cracked so bought a new one at HD. After the tile was laid, another surprise, the closet flange (a new word for me), is missing and the contractor tells me the floor has to be dug up to install a new flange. This will involve breaking newly laid tile and the concrete floor around the discharge pipe. It seems to me that someone must make a flange with a neck that would slip into the drain pipe (the drain pipe seems to be black PVC). Thanks.
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"It seems to me that someone must make a flange with a neck that would slip into the drain pipe (the drain pipe seems to be black PVC). Thanks."
If it is black it isn't PVC. If it is plastic then it is ABS. Or it might be cast iron.
And yes there are insert flanges that glue into place or use an expanding seal.
http://www.plumbingsupply.com/toiletflanges.html
Now most of those are for 4" lines. Most of the plastic ones are 4x3, that is the go inside 4" or outside 3".
But if it is cast iron then the it appears that the c40-320 will work with 3".
Thanks. That is the first order of business to see if I can find this at a plumbing supply house in Houston. I am curious as to why this bathroom did not have the Closet Flange. The old toilet was hauled away so I can not determine if the flange was stuck to it.
How old is this place? If pre-1960 or so it may be a lead pipe. Real easy to tell -- scratch it and if it's real easy to scratch and the scratches show silver it's lead.
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My guess would be that it is a 3" pipe and any plumbing code would require the flange to go on the outside of a 3" pipe. Are you sure the old flange isn't just buried under the tile?
As far as the removal of the old toilet flange, I kinda doubt that it was stuck to the old toilet. When removing a toilet the first thing someone would do is disconnect the supply line, remove the 2 flange bolts, and lift the toilet off. Unless a track hoe was used for the demo of the old stuff ;-)
Also read the FAQ at the bottom of the web page that Bill sited:
http://www.plumbingsupply.com/toiletflanges.html
In the new construction homes I do the toilet flange is installed after the finished floor.
My guess would be that there only needs to be a ~3/4" gap around the toilet soil pipe so that the new flange collar could be slid down between the tile and the outside of the pipe. If that were the case, the only tile that would need to be torn up will be under the toilet and won't show. The repaired area could then just be filled with grout. Also, if the finished floor is, say 1/2" above the flange, 2 wax rings can be installed. No doubt though that a flange does need to be there though.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong on all this.
Some more options. This delima was discussed here about a month ago. (Actually it was a raising the flange issue.)
http://www.oatey.com/apps/catalog/showprod.asp?ctg=11&subctg=3
I know what someone else said about putting a flange into a 3" pipe not being code but they (code folks) seem to be over protective when they will not let a 2" or possibly even smaller trapway dump into a 2 1/2" hole.
Bob
Edited 11/4/2005 10:14 am ET by rasconc
It seems to me that someone must make a flange with a neck that would slip into the drain pipe (the drain pipe seems to be black PVC). Thanks.
Saw one at our local Ace Hardware this week while looking for a way to repair the top of a flange. I didn't ckeck it out thouroughly - don't know what it's made of. Cost was about $28.
Here is a pic I took at work today.... (not grouted yet...)
edit: Hummmm.... Now that I look at the pic I'm not sure the succion (correct name?) is going to cover the hole around the supply pipe... these drywall guys make a lot of the same mistakes.... I guess that is just one small example of why I have a job...
Edited 11/4/2005 6:08 pm ET by Matt
I cringe seeing the CPVC supply...hate that stuff. Making the stub out copper is bit better, but I abhor CPVC for anything. Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"I don't think it's funny no more" Nick Lowe.
Come to think of it I don't know why they didn't stub out with copper. They usually do (the plumber I use). Still I think CPVC is better than pex... Obviously they can't stub out directly with pex; a copper fitting is used - or at least that is the way I've seen it done. My plumber puts pex in the less expensive houses.
Edited 11/5/2005 5:43 am ET by Matt
Are you implying that PEX is not suitable for potable water supply use? If so, how do you come by that statement? I'm all set to install Wirsbo AquaPEX in my house for all supply lines, and stub to copper for the connections.
I really hope you're joking about using CPVC instead of PEX.
>> Are you implying that PEX is not suitable for potable water supply use? << Not sure how you came up with that. I have it in my own house. When I said you can't stub out with pex, what I was saying is that you can't (as far as I know) just have a piece of pex hanging out of the wall to connect the toilet supply to. Normally a copper 'L' fitting is installed there that the pex connects to inside the wall. I'll edit my post to clarify.
Gotcha. Thanks.
You mean escutcheon. Yes, they come in regular, large and extra-large. Or you can always use a dinner plate.
Good info by the posters
all the closet flange does is support a mechanical connection between the toilet & the pipe
if the pipe is sound , doesn't have a lot of movement & is fairly close to the finished surface a flange isn't really necesary
ofcourse with out one you have to bolt the toilet to the floor no biggie but drilling the tile can be a pain for some.