OK, I’m stumped here. Let me preface this by saying that I’m no finish carpenter, but I’m trying to figure this one out anyway.
The task: replace a section of rotted crown molding on an exterior third floor dormer. The molding slopes down following the gable line to the end where it meets another piece of crown forming an outside corner. This piece I’m replacing descends at an angle of 37 degrees following the gable. The piece it meets is level. So I need to figure out how to make that cut — in this case the left outside corner, which has to be mitered to meet the other piece. Here is a drawing showing the angle, and I’ll post a picture of the dormer so you all can see what I’m talking about.
Thanks as always!
Replies
Here's that pic of the dormer. The view is kind of strange because I'm standing in the driveway below looking up.
Joe
Fuscos method is the method for doing what you are describing you wanted
to do but when this popped up in another discussion I took the position that
basically it architecturally a bad design and look so why do it and trying to
pull molding profiles from a yards stock supply that will match is hardly worth
the time and effort when you are running a business that is trying to make money.In
your particular case with the rake molding you've chosen ( your crown2.jpg
) the molding that would mate and match with it on the level fascia would be
tiny and insignificant. I think it's not so much that you CAN'T miter crown
like you are describing (since Joe has shown that you can) but that SHOULDN'T
because it's a bad design idea.
In a discussion framing radiused stairs that managed to get off topic
an on to this same subject I described what we do at my company when this detail
comes up starting in message
#21462.30. and the discussion went on for several post from there. There's
a good picture of what I labeled and called the "porkchop wraparound
technique" in message
#21462.44 and I think that technique might be better suited for you application
and really begin to dress it up too.
You were going to remove the loose paint and re-prime the fascias in
that picture to seal them before putting up any new moldings aren't you?
"Architecture is the
handwriting of Man." - Bernard
Maybeck.
Jerry- thanks for the info, that was interesting. I attached a pic below of the whole house so you can see the overall design. I'm not sure if the "porkchop" detail would look right. And I find it curious that the original builders chose to basically ignore this issue despite the fact that it's a fairly common detail in the neighborhood.
And yes, I am planning on scraping and priming those fascia boards, after all this was *supposed* to be just a painting job...
Thanks
Edited 9/15/2002 4:42:18 PM ET by AndyL
Hey Andy looking at the picture of the whole house now my vote is for
no detailing (crown) on those fascias. I don't think it would be at
all appropriate on that style of house. There is a heavy rustic elegance to
the half timbering and the roof fascias relate to that but if they all dressed
up with crown or some other type of molding I'd find myself looking at it thinking“what
that huh?....” You would sense that something wasn't looking right
even though it wouldn't necessarily club you over the head like some bad designs
(did you ever see my post What
was this guy thinking?).
Where is that house? It looks like it could easily be in Scarsdale NY where
I just finished up if the landscape was "older".
"Architecture is the
handwriting of Man." - Bernard
Maybeck.
Hey Andy it just occured to me that you wrote "this was *supposed* to be just a painting job... " If you are a painter, and that house is in Scarsdale, we should talk. I have a project we may decline on if I can't round up a painter that will fit in to the schedule we are trying to develop.
.
"Architecture is the
handwriting of Man." - Bernard
Maybeck.
The house is in Milwaukee, Wis. We have a fair number of 1920s houses in this area that have similar design elements. I've always been fascinated by the design of older houses- the crown is quite common around here, and on this house they put it on all the fascias all over the whole house. Most people around here have covered them up with aluminum due to the short life span of the typical paint job in this area.
It was supposed to be just a paint job, but "can you just replace that one board up there." Sure. I think I've learned more about crown molding from this thread than I ever thought I would.
Thanks again for all the tips and discussion. I think I will try to cope the rake piece and see how it fits, like Calvin said. I'll post a pic when it's done, for better or for worse... <g>
Andy
Shoot ,...you're to far away to help us out. Good luck and I'll look forward to reading and seeing more from you.
"Architecture is the
handwriting of Man." - Bernard
Maybeck.
Andy, do not try to miter different sloping angles, won't work. Instead, run the level crown with a 12" mitered return, then return the miter against itself.Sounds confusing , what you have is the level crown with a 12" 90 degree return and another 90 degree return at the end of the 12" piece . A shelf with a slight pitch down [ for rain to slope off ) goes on top of the return. The rake crown is cut to the slope and fits on top of the shelf.The shelf is usually 3/4" larger than the crown , this gives you a lip overhanging the crown.The rake cut is similar to the level cut on a rafter.
I think I know what you're talking about-- this would involve running a piece of level crown around the corner onto the front of the dormer and the returning the miter forming a shelf for the rake crown to sit on. I've seen this on other houses in the area. Since doing it this way would require me to give the other side the same treatment, I'm hoping there's another solution that will work. Because it's a third floor dormer, no one's going to get a good look. Of course I could just do what was done originally and just leave a big gap where the two pieces meet.
AndyL,
View Image
Joseph- thanks, that's very interesting (cool site by the way). I can see why you say it's a fair task to accomplish. I think beyond my capabilities.
So, the question is.. what would you guys do in this situation? Keep in mind it's not exactly an ideal working environment as I'm using roof brackets (no scaffolding) and am thus somewhat limited in mobility. My thinking is to basically reproduce what was done originally, and accept the resulting gap. Heck, if it's worked for 80 years, who am I to argue?
Thanks again
Andy
Andy, On a simple profile, paint grade, rather than mitre, I've coped the angled (rake) to match the other crown. Sanded and painted, looks presentable from that distance. Might work for you.__________________________________________
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Andy, I second Calvin's idea. Sometimes on remodeling jobs you can't fix what's already there. Cope and scribe the best you can and it will probably look better than what was originally there. Good luck. Rich.
The only time I've seen this done simply is when the rafter tails are cut square to the top of the rafter. Mitreing this is simple because the molding is just rounding a square corner that way. The other way is, as Joe Fusco illustrates, is to use two widths of molding. All that math though, will make you crazy and take up way too much time. the easiest way to do it is on the ground with a couple pieces of extra molding, or you can use flat stock, but just emulate the roof situation on the ground and eyeball the angle till you get it close enough so you can do a couple fine adjustments up top.