Replies

1. 
   Guest_ | Jan 15, 2000 09:17pm | #1

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   Mike,

   You only need to cut the end of the trim at a straight 45° angle, there is no need to cut a "compound" angle.

   To make the return pieces, just cut a small piece of scrap trim with a 45° angle at each end, then cut them off even with the angle. I might be able to post a diagram in a little while.

   Joseph Fusco

   View Image

   "Whenever, therefore, people are deceived and form opinions wide of the truth, it is clear that the error has slid into their minds through the medium of certain resemblance's to that truth."

   Socrates

1. 
   Guest_ | Jan 15, 2000 11:26pm | #2

   *Mike,with colonial or for that matter any trim that has a profile , when you cut mitered returns the end result will look angled.It sounds to me like you were trying to avoid this by cutting a compound miter . What Joe said is the only way that you can do the aprons that I know of.When I built my house I didn't like the angled look of the apron so I made straight cuts on them.I'm probably the only one who actually notices the diffrence ........Jerry

1. 
   Guest_ | Jan 16, 2000 03:57am | #3

   *I concur with Joe and Jerry. No compound cuts are required for a window apron. The standard way requires only a 45* miter and no bevel. (bevel set at 90*) In this diagram, it looks like they are using a 22 ½* miter, but still no bevel. (* = degree mark since I don't know how to make my keyboard do that). Or in other words, both the apron itself, and the return is cut with the saw set at 22 ½* miter and no bevel.I thought the above link would save Joe the trouble of making a diagram. I like to miter the returns on the stool ears too, as shown in the diagram.

1. 
   Guest_ | Jan 16, 2000 05:33am | #4

   *I like to make those little "dutchmen" from right next to the 45ed long piece. That way, when you glue it in place, the grain wraps around that corner too. Small thing, but it can make a big difference. - jb

1. 
   Guest_ | Jan 16, 2000 05:47pm | #5

   *Gee guys why dont you just wack them off at a 22 degree angle? (please note sarcasm, I just saw this done in a 1/2 million dollar show home).Mike I applaud your attention to details. But you are trying to overcomplicate matters. Keep trying and good luck.Rick Tuk

2. 
   Guest_ | Jan 16, 2000 06:37pm | #6

   *Hey Rick, You would not believe the number of "hacks" that wack them off at a 22 degree angle out in this area. Was once criticized by a GC for taking the time to put returns on aprons.It makes you wonder if people are just not interested in the quality that goes into their homes or do they not know any better?

3. 
   Guest_ | Jan 16, 2000 08:46pm | #7

   *Rick:Re:>> Gee guys why dont you just wack them off at a 22 degree angle? <<And what I really hate is that nobody calls these guys on this stuff and they get to thinking this is "good work".The root of the problem is that the average home buyer today doesn't know the difference, or doesn't notice it until 8 months post purchase!

2. 
   David_Rosenbaum | Jan 16, 2000 09:28pm | #8

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   Well, speaking of hacks, Ive seen aprons back cut on a 45, leaving the long point on the wall.....that end grain sure looks nice and dark after the stain goes on....oh mama meea

3. 
   Guest_ | Jan 16, 2000 11:41pm | #9

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   I noted that nobody even mentioned the drywall window wrap, much less the 22 1/2 deg. miter. I have always done full cased windows with return miters on sill trim. I guess I'm in the minority in my area. I also see alot of chair rail or wainscot cap just chopped off at the ends. Sickens me to no end.

   When I cut my miter returns I cut all the sill trim at once, then glue the returns on and hold them with tape. After about 15 mins. they are ready to install. This is better than trying to get them to stay in the right place when doing it on the wall all at once or putting a pin nail thruogh it and splitting the damn thing.

1. 
   Guest_ | Jan 17, 2000 12:55am | #10

   *Usually in most of the houses that I've trimmed I usually have to make up the window stools either out of wood or MDF and when doing so cut the stool to length and then rout the return using whatever profile bit called for. MDM

1. 
   Guest_ | Jan 17, 2000 08:07am | #11

   *Hey - you guys cut the sill to overhang the apron the same on the ends as it overhangs on the front? Do you make the apron the same length as the width of the casing?

1. 
   Guest_ | Jan 17, 2000 08:09am | #12

   *Mike,I think the problem you are having is that you are trying to do "both methods" in one application. You can either make a blunt cross cut on the apron moulding at 22 1/2 degrees, or you can make a 90 degree cross cut at a 45 degree angle and slide in a return. To try and put a 45 return on a 22 1/2 skew will make the return look as if it's going down-hill. There is nothing you can do about it. You can't do both applications. Well you can.......but you will have to hand carve the return out of solid stock material. Now we don't want to do that, now do we.Pick one or the other.Good luck,Ed. Williams

1. 
   Guest_ | Jan 17, 2000 09:01am | #13

   *Jim, I cut the stool overhangs on each end the same distance it overhangs the front. Icut the apron the same measurement as from outside casing edge to outside casing edge, or the same as what you said. MDM.

4. 
   David_Rosenbaum | Jan 17, 2000 11:27am | #14

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   Hey, speaking of mitered returns, I dont pin, or yellow glue, After building a couple of RC planes, I discoverd CA Glue, with a spray activator. This makes so much little glue up so much nicer. and its instant as soon as you spray it...

5. 
   Guest_ | Jan 17, 2000 05:21pm | #15

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   This is the same problem I have. I want to spend the extra time to complete the details that make my work stand out from everybody else. The customer is thrilled to have such detail. I'm standing there thinking "WOW" this looks great. Then I get back to my desk and figure my hourly rate based on the time spent and the answer is less than the hacks who bid the job at my price and save hours on the details. They get to drive the new vans and seem as if they always have time to go hunt'in or fish'in. If you want to stand out as a excellent carpenter you should never go back to the desk and figure your profit or you start to think of ways to save time and produce more.

1. 
   Guest_ | Jan 17, 2000 06:19pm | #16

   *Very good point Stinky. MDM.

6. 
   mike_czapla | Jan 23, 2000 09:38pm | #17

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   thanks for all the advise, works great, sounds like i was trying to make it too complicated. i achieved what i was looking for by turning the piece thick side up after cutting the returns like you said. i'm new at this but i'm learning. mike

7. 
   Guest_ | Jan 24, 2000 09:08am | #18

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   How many of you guys rip the small radius off the outside[thick side] of a peice of casing used for an apron? Just curious.

   Chuck

8. 
   Jason-MpM_Inc. | Jan 25, 2000 01:13am | #19

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   All great ideas for cutting mitered returns. A good trick and also a time saver is to cut some scrap with a 45 on each side. After the apron is installed without the returns you can mark your scrap piece with the apron. Turn your piece of casing so the profiles come together, the long point should touch the sheetrock behind the apron. Now rub the scrap against the long point of the apron, this will scribe a small mark that you can darken with a pencil. Now cut your return, careful though, small pieces can catch the blade on slow down and shoot across the room.
   For attaching the return for paint quality work, we have found that tub and tile adhesive works great. After about 15 secs holding time, you have a tight holding seal.

9. 
   Guest_ | Jan 25, 2000 05:41pm | #20

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   Chuck,

   I am not exactly sure what you are asking.

1. 
   Guest_ | Jan 25, 2000 06:42pm | #21

   *Rick, I just meant instead of taking a peice of casing and cuttin a couple of returns on it and using it for an apron as is, I usually rip off the factory eased edge[usually only an 1/8'' or so] on the side that fits against the bottom of the window stool. I just think it looks a little better. Otherwise it kinda looks like a crack where the apron meets the stool. Really doesnt amount to a ''hill of beans''one way or the other. I was just curious as to whether anyone else, or everyone else did that. Chuck

1. 
   Guest_ | Jan 25, 2000 11:43pm | #23

   *Chuck, I think I've got it... You're talking about "ranch" or "clamshell" (WM 327/329)casing, right? What you're suggesting sounds like good practice.I'll bet Rick, like myself, was first thinking you were speaking of "colonial" casing (WM 371/445), or a similar profile with no radius on the outside edge.Regards, Steve

10. 
    mike_czapla | Jan 25, 2000 11:43pm | #22

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    I'm finishing some windows on the interior and would like to make some apron pieces with mitered returns under the sills but am having trouble. I'm cutting the aprons with 2 1/4 colonial trim at 45 degree with a 22 1/2 compound profile but having trouble getting the returns to match the profile. Any suggestions? Also my saw only compounds one direction.