*
I just visited JLC’s site and noticed that a lot of you post there as well. I’m curious how you compare their moderated forum to our, uhm, immoderate? unmoderated? version.
Andy
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*
I don't like their form of moderation to be honest. A bit too staid those folks are- for my tastes at least.
Sam
*Gee, Andy, i feel like my mother just confronted me with a cigarette butt and said, "What's the meaning of THIS, young Splintergroupie?!?!?!?!"I promise i'll be good, really i will...no need to ground me...
*Hey Andy, what does JLC stand for??? I'm not defecting but was wondering what your're talking about. While I've got your ear , I recieced an e-mail from someone who was scanning this site and responded by saying they read my posts and wanted me to contact them about writing or posting on something called IM-UR. Has anyone else commented on this, is it some kind of solicitation?? Otherwise things are great.
*Really SG, it's OK. I've even been known to sneak a beer or two with my colleagues from that other magazine myself. Andy
*Like both JLC and FHB, but like the Tavern looseness. Think the other parts (Breaktime) need some moderating, but like that it's looser. The "staidness" over at JLC makes me spend a little more time in wording things. Since my spelling/grammer ain't always the best....Right after I first posted this, saw the other replys. With all the things you've been hit with lately, trying to get a bearing sounds like a good idea, in keeping with what I perceive to be the "Breaktime way."
*George, JLC stands for the Journal of Light Construction, a magazine that is perhaps our closest competitor. I believe that you e-mailed me about the site that was soliciting contributors. Sorry I didn't respond personally, somehow your query fell through the cracks. I'm told that practice isn't unheard of. They probably read your posts and thought you'd be a good participant. I know nothing about IM-UR, however.Andy
*I learned about JLC from an ad in FHB, long time ago.
*IM-UR Entrance Pageim-ur allows users to post unedited, uncensored articles, comments and questions about virtually any subject to the magazine of their choice and to see it on-site within seconds. Users may write articles, ask questions and communicate with each othehttp://www.im-ur.com/From a little Webbing...is this the site?Either that or it's about a 14-yr-old blonde girl looking for hot guys who can't spell "You're"
*George: JLC is the Journal of Light Construction. I get emails direct from people that ask for additional information or to discuss their particular situation. I hadn't thought about it before, but perhaps some of us get those requests because of the contentious nature of this board. The newbies are afraid to post.Andy: I liked your post about warning people about abuses and then booting them. Some have defended the belligerent posters, saying, "You have provide so much useful information for so long. . . yadda . yadda." But I don't see it that way. Yes, the biggest jerk does know some stuff but not only shoots/flames from the hip; he also slings information from the hip. When it becomes more important to insult other posters than to check your facts, content suffers. Send the unrepentant to cyber-hell, or at least cyber-purgatory.The second biggest jerk is at least consistent with his facts and strongly held opinions. His posts would benefit from moderation in that the content could be retained and insults removed.But most posters are doing pretty well and seem to take to heart your occasional Rodney Kingisms ("Can't we all just get along?"). Banning those that have no desire for civil discourse would mean everyone else would be provoked a lot less. Shooting the breeze could be done in the tavern and the other forums could have more content and less vitriol. Overall, I'd rather see the worst offenders policed than everyone moderated. -David
*I too received an invitation from IM-UR that I haven't even looked into further, yet. They said they picked me from some political editorials I had written for an entirely different environment. They must be trolling pretty heavily.
*AndyI started out on the JLC forums some time back, but the software they initially used on their forums was so bad and the content was so bland that when I discovered Breaktime, I seldom went back to the JLC forums. I do like JLCs articles and archives that they have on their web site. JLC has greatly improved their website software but I still find the forums somewhat too staid for my taste.Occasional flames can be entertaining but they too often get tedious when each flamer has to try and get in the last word or just can't let go of it. I have not yet received a solicitation from IM-UR, but I have received e-mail from a number of individuals from my postings at Breaktime (including one from an individual who was deterred from posting on Breaktime because of fears of getting flamed). When I tried to reply to a couple of the e-mails that had asked me for information, however, I got a message back saying that they were not receiving any e-mails.
*I'd agree with David, a bit. I think the problems started when Tavern talk spilled into the construction threads. People seem to now stalk the other threads waiting for their victims to post, and the threads go way off topic, in a very bad way. I think that if there were a way to moderate that stalking behavior, it would cut a lot of crap. I can deal with someone calling me an idiot, or swearing at me, or otherwise insulting me because of a bad idea I had. But too many times I've seen others set out just to insult. There's no need, and this is not the place. A specific example would be both Gabe Martel AND Splintergroupie. Both are guilty of this behavior. (Gabe, we all know you think SG to be a DF. Sometimes I agree, and sometimes you're the DF. Give it a rest. SG, you give it a rest too - you provoke him as much as he insults you...) Like my momma always said, if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.
*Andy...This board is very unique in that the layout makes it very easy to peruse and use...It is number one in that regard...As to moderating...Don't do it. Reserve that idea to a whole separate area if you would like to start a section that is moderated.Flames...Somehow...the board does need to be observed for civility and undesirable content. A loose hand works if it also is a decisive hand as needed. I would rather no-one get booted permanently unless warranted...I do think warnings and cool down periods are the best choice for now...You can tell me to not post for a month anytime you need to...or email me or any poster to tell us that we must post civily and with out foul language for the next month or we're not to post.Just some thoughts on all, near my end of the stream,ajAnd I agree with the golden rules too...Treat others well...and they will return in kind. I do enjoy all that post here...especially if ya don't barbecue me till there's only ashes left on the spit! I like me medium done at most!
*Mr. Pita, you and i have tussled once, but it was in the Tavern, where it should be. Gabe has not only posted erroneous info just to take the opposite side from me (see a recent thread about radiant heating, if you will), but he's gone outside the Tavern and dissuaded posters from participating. I know, because several of them have e-mailed me directly for more info on the topics. They are not stupid people at all, just unwilling to fight for a courtesy others find common, and this board will become inbred without them. I have more of a stake in this playground than they do, and so i've willingly, continually dealt with Gabe and Joe, first in pitched battle, and now with humor. If Gabe wishes to wax monosyllabic with impotent rage over a quip, that's a choice he has, like Joe calling Andy an sob. For my part, i feel like i wandered into a dark shed last August and finally found the light switch. If Gabe needs you guys to hold me back to protect him from my rubber-like wit, he's worse off than i thought he was. Note to Gabe: lighten up, my man, grab the other end of this here joke and PPPPUUUULLLLLLLLLLLLL......
*No, No, and more no.....as in leave it alone. JLC is a whole different magazine and so is their site. Better it's not. Joe HPS, was I clear? I vote NO! No recount needed, NO!
*You left your chad hanging, Joe.
*I like this board, and I like that board. Much the same way I like both magazines, even though they are distinctly different. One really nice thing about the JLC board, is you are pretty much talking with other pros, much like the cabinetmakeronline board, where they even make you use your real name to log in. The advantage to talking shop with other pros is obvious. The disadvantage I see to the "moderated" feature of their present set up, is it establishes a hierarchy of posters, so in essence you get kind of a "ask Larry" quality to many of the posts, which stiffles open discussion, much the way a teacher centered classroom does in school. Gary Katz goes to great lengths to avoid this, but I think it exists despite his best efforts. The freewheeling, laize faire, back up what you say or duck flavor that used to prevail here promotes a much healthier discourse, in my opinion, validating everyone who chimes in. But then again, I'm not much into control. And Mr. Pita, if you think what spills out of the Tavern into threads is disrupting NOW, you should have seen this board before there was a Tavern. We all used to log on, find our buddies in whatever thread they were in that night, and quickly change the subject to those that dominate the Tavern now. I'm with Jack, a moderated section with questions for designated experts could be a good addition, but it should be in a seperate folder, much like "Construction Techniques" or "Business" is now. By the way Andy, I think we should have a seperate folder for "Computer Subjects" (CAD, Accounting, Estimating). Is that something we could add?
*Just to avert panic, we have no plans that I'm aware of to change the way the board is run. I'm just looking for feedback so that our thinking doesn't stagnate. So pour it on.Andy
*i I have more of a stake in this playground than they do...Well, maybe that's part of your problem, SG (or is it GG now?). You see this as a playground, I see this as an informative and valuable resource. When I wrote my piece about how you need to back off, I had recently finished reading this. You may think you were just being funny, I see it as provoking Gabe. And then you wonder why he hates you? He was replying to Ryan's lament over changing email addresses, and you jumped on him. He said nothing to you or about you, no reason for you to start anything there. I'm not saying you don't have reasons for disliking him, but you need to learn to pick your spots better.I'm not here to "protect" Gabe. I am calling the situation as I see it. Yes, we have tussled, and we have had our differences. SFW? I am unbiased (as in I want a FAIR resolution) posting this. I never claimed Gabe is innocent in all this. Yes, he uses vulgarity to pove his point. Newsflash: You don't have to be vulgar to flame. If he's guilty, then as I see it so are you. In hockey, if I were the ref I'd give you each 5 minute fighting majors, and over the course of a season I think you'd each wind up with an equal number of instigation penalties, too.
*... started out there... exceedingly boring... slow response... filtered thru e-mail....no fun.....
*Mr. Pita,I don't appreciate being included in your dialogue. I have never said anything to you that would justify becoming personal. Kindly make whatever point you are trying to make, without using my name.I don't participate in any post that is initiated by DF and I would appreciate it if she/he were to return the courtesy.Gabe
*True, I'm relatively new to the board. I don't mind the threads going off topic so much, these are (IMHO) conversations, and conversations do wander. Too many times my friends and I will look at each other and say how the heck did we get on this subject anyway? But on the other hand, that's why we have the Tavern now, isn't it?What I do mind most is the mindset of attacking someone whenever & wherever the 'enemy' is seen. A few months ago this was about the greatest place on the web, in that that type of attack was nonexistent, compared to other unmoderated boards I've seen. I guess I'd just like to get back to that point.
*Gabe, I apologize if I have offended you by making an example of you. However, many others here have pointed out that they consider you 'public enemy #2'. I do not consider you in this light, but I must admit we all have our moments, and you do seem to have more moments than most. You may not have directed any undesirable comments to me specifically. But by directing comments to SG, on this board, you do reveal them to this community at large. I have used you as an example because you are hence widely recognized.
*im-ur....lessee.. george and phill both contacted.......i feel left out... ... and dave (alaska)... no need to refer to my friends as jerks.. though they may in fact act like it at times...calling someone a jerk is just as inflamatory...and that is not like you....and blodgett... if you get any more namby -pamby about "" they're both great magazines""" ... come on jimbo.. let's see some fire....
*Moderated forum?....What say the rest of ya?near the stream,aj
*BTW, Andy, in spite of my, er, diatribe?My vote is NO to moderation.
*I’m not big on posting, but I am a long time lurker of both sites. This site is much better as far as the forum goes. The JLC is much better at providing information. I also would thing that splitting the forum up into more folders would hurt and not help. The JLC has a few new forums and there mediocre at best.
*When I first started posting here about a year ago, I put my foot in my mouth a few times before I learned to keep my mouth shut. Now I guess I "lurk" more than I "post". I don't really care what politics go on here because I have my own problems to worry about. It would be nice, I suppose, if things calmed down a little bit. Maybe some of the tough old vets here shouldn't let themselves be provoked by some of the newer types that haven't learned a little disgression yet. But moderation would suck. Maybe in one folder like Jim suggested, but I only go over to the JLC site if I need info I can't get here. I find it too dry and I don't care for the format.
*That's it?!?!?!!?!? Gabe says he's changing his on-line location and i say he can run, but he'll just die tired... Wherez yer funny-bone, man??? That was FUNNY!!! Provocative? Sure as hell was--trying to provoke some humor! He'll die laughing or i'll die trying...and to set the record straight, Gabe hated me long before he met me.As for not mixing work and play: i see BT as both an informative and valuable resource, having just fixed a previously undiagnoseable problem with my boiler by researching the archives Sunday, thereby saving serious money, as well as a playground unharmed by a tossed dwarf or two. If you see that as "part of [my] problem", you're onto one of the reasons i'm a great boss and a lousy employee, besides the fact that i pay too much. I have no hard and fast defintion for vulgarity, but in my mind, it is necessary for flaming, and i have not engaged in it. Poking fun, chastisement, taking to task--somehow GWC, mike, yourself and others manage to do so without calling me butch/bitch, and i respond in kind and give thanks for the guidance. You'd put me in the penalty box for limericks?!?! Now, the French one, maybe, but "poopie" was the worst of the others...Learning a lot about sports...
*Mr. Pita,While there are many variations of this old saying, I like this one "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me."You see my friend, you weren't the one that was targeted by DF and her friends and accused of all kinds of perversions and vicious inuendos including child molestation.When Andy first moved to cool things down, I apologized and tried to get on with life. DF didn't.No longer will I apologize, nor will I allow anyone to make unsubstantiated comments to or about me. All you have to examine is my post "TGIF lets get on with it" and you will get a sample of how quickly a post can be railroaded by this little crew.Again, I'm no one's example. I would appreciate an apology, without provisos.Gabe
*Little crew? Gabe, you are a victim of conspiracy in theory only. I said my piece and defended it, but i had no coterie of willing shills to do my bidding--i was blasted by you from the get-go before i even knew anyone here--some people just happen to object to you as much as i do, and for longer.Anytime you want to bury the hatchet, i'm up for the shovel party. All i've ever insisted on is that you not blow up the homeowners' threads--the Tavern stuff i can handle easily. In the alternative, maybe we should start the Gabe/splinter thread, a place to practice bumper cars w/o anyone else getting side-swiped.Eh?I said, "EH?"
*it gets worse...I got a Im-ur invite too...using words like "brilliant observations" if I remember correctly...I guess it's you specifically they don't want Mike?
*well... i guess so ... you brilliant right -wing bastid, you....maybe it's the lower case ?oh .. gee ......i ain't ... ur not.......
*Hi Andy,Sorry I missed meeting you in person last fall. I've grown a little bored with the forums here, due in no small part to the inevitable direction the areas of discussion that interest me most often head off into. Now I get from it what I can and participate very sparsely, in some part just to to stay out of the line of fire, and also just because it gets old and I have much better things to do with my time.The suggestions for "penalty box" kinds of tempering are doomed to failure. People will just pop back up in another persona and it'll only get worse from there. Ask Bill Conner about Papa Bear Halas from the This Old House boards.I think things moderate themselves eventually, as people get tired of the bickering and back off or go away. Though I'm sure a little back-channel diplomacy on your part with folks does have a calming effect (Joe's public reaction notwithstanding). Also, the occasional deletion of the really offensive stuff makes it clear where the lines are drawn (at least to the person who is deleted). I think you've got it about right, Andy.Best,Steve
*Thanks for all the input. My hope is to foster information exchange and civil debate of ideas. Well, fun, too. Even the occasional limerick in the Tavern. Andy
*I started posting on-line at JLC. I now prefer the atmosphere here. I'm kinda torn on their new style. Here, ya get a bunch of answers....and a few people actually read the question and respond in kind! There, it seems you wait till the Pro answers. Gary Katz's part is very good. The "Tile God" ...I will not humor anything not in the book....is terrible.The others seem basic, but good. The JLC site folders depend on the moderators personality, while FHb is kinda communal. Different mags, different sites, different flavor. I expect different things from both mags and both sites. And JLC coulda never swung a Fest! Jeff
*Speaking of Festing.....when's our 15 min. o'fame? Next issue??? Jeff
*I was going to comment on the obvious great amount of good taste they have. They haven't invited me either. Then I hear they haven't invited Mike either. (Hey Mike, I guess I aint, and yur not either...)Wat cads !!
*Hey Andy,Never been there. I don't really have time to be here, but it seems like the right thing to do.Ed. Williams
*I visit the JLC site once a week or so and this site two or three times a day, mostly lurking, seldom posting anymore. I much prefer the freewheeling open style of this board. In the three years or so that I've visited here I've seen several flame wars flare up and die out on thier own. They never really bothered me, actually kind of entertaining sometimes.Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is I prefer no moderaters, just let folks sort things out or move on, kinda like real life.
*> A few months ago this was about the greatest place on the web, in that that type of attack was nonexistent, compared to other unmoderated boards I've seen.Mr. Pita,You remember a brief period of relative clam. There were plenty of flames before that.Rich Beckman
*I have only kicked the tires at the JCL site once or twice. My impressions were of very narrow questions and very focused answers - conversations don't expand or move laterally. The opportunity to learn something accidentally, or to spontaneously create a new solution out of the discourse just isn't there, it's here.
*Andy,I've been here almost two years now. Without question, this site was the best forum I had run into. To my knowledge it still is. Why? The people, Taunton's loose hand on the wheel, and the software. Don't change.Thanks.Rich Beckman
*Phil just said something really smart and used lotsa big words. I'm thinking maybe he ought to be the "Official Canadian Spokesman".JonC
*Andy, I like this place. The way it is. Thanks.
*Andy,Don't let it change (too much). Change is, after all inevitable. Keep a loose hand, don't go the JLC route.John
*Hey Beckman...you shoulda kept your mouth shut!!!..Ya know they pull the plug on ya after two years here don't ya?
*Care to expand on that, Luka? Andy
*John, don't worry. Until one of you steps up and applies for the web-editor's job, you're stuck with part-time me. No time to tighten that grip. Or desire. I think that Breaktime works very well, with the occasional gross course correction. And that it does so is because of you folks, not me. Andy
*Ignore him, Andy, he's just trying to stir things up.
*Andy, might I put in my two-cents, or whatever the opinion of a lowly cook from CT is worth?No moderation. Moderation sucks. Despite the sometimes heated debates both here and on the Woodshed, I like it. Same reason I like CT unmoderated. Li (your counterpart) does a terrific job of letting us go on and on, and only rarely smacks our hand with a ruler. Usually we deserve it. Despite the many different personalities and sometimes obnoxious behavior, this forum is far better than others I've run across. I just ignore people I don't like, and enjoy the ones I do. If other people don't like this forum, well, they can continue to lurk or find another place to chat. Their choice. But I think the majority of us like our little home away from home just the way it is.Besides, I would miss (and I think many others will admit that they fell the same) some of the - shall we say - stronger personalities here on the board being allowed free-rein. I think they are terrific for the most part. Adds a little spice to our lives, makes us think, forces us to examine our own positions and ideas. That's a healthy thing, not a bad thing.Don't even consider a moderated forum, please.
*ROFLOLWell it's about time. I expected a buncha people to come to the defense of the forum as quickly and as vehemently as they do their political parties. I was thinking that maybe no one cared for BT as much as they cared for their political candidates. But then CLS proves that everyone saw through my charade. hehehe Good for you CLS.b : )Andy, I love this forum. Nothing wrong with it. I like the loose hand method of moderation. But as Duggy said, "Let anarchy reign, and all you have is anarchy". Yer doing an excelent job.
*i Pssst, Mr. Pita! Who, pray tell, is Public Enemy #1? Just curious...
*(ROFL) Good one...
*I second what Rich said. And if you think topics get off on a tangent here, you should see some of the threads on CT. "Hey, CLS, where is that recipe you posted for biscuits?" "Oh, you have to search for the thread on chicken". We constantly wonder how in the world some threads spin off with a life of their own. It's a mystery, and part of the fun, frankly.
*Besides me? ;)
*Yes, wandering conversations are part of the fun of life - I do enjoy them. But there is a difference a group of people having a conversation, and having the course run from banter to bickering.I have participate(d) in several dozen web boards, across a variety of topics, over the years. All evidenced the type of invective I dislike. When I discovered this place a few months ago, it was calm. No, I didn't realize it was just an "eye of the storm" deal. But when I found it, I found a place that really appealed to me. Now, the board still has much more appeal for me compared to other boards I've experienced, even in its current state. But I'd still like to see it get back to that calm stage.
*zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz................ (calm)....deep thoughts......
*Mike,I thought that noise was your Makita!Svenny
*sven...i hate the sound of makitas.. they interfere with my afternoon naps....(deep thoughts )
*Andy - I've been here since the beginning. It was for a while a pretty exciting place with posters not afraid to think outside the box and share opinions and experiences without fear of reprisal. Now, if someone suggest a method contrary to "the way it was always done" or contrary to the opinions of a few specific posters, they get flamed. This suppression of free wheeling exchange is, in my opinion and based on my experience, regrettable. Clearly, Taunton has decided that it's ok to let a few participants stifel the conversation. Simply count the posts that contain thoughtful, fhb, related comments and those that are flaming others or talking about the incivility.The web-crossing software is so good, it makes other boards pale. None the less, for pure construction related assistance and education, I think JLC is winning.
*Andy, I've been to all the construction related bulletin boards I can find, and this is the best one. The freewheeling style here is what makes it so. I think yo did well to step in when you did, it was getting to the point that you couldn't get through a thread without the invective starting.The only suggestion I have is that you perhaps eliminate this part of the bulletin board, (following the list of the different boards), and make the user pick a particular bb to begin with. That way the construction questions might actually end up in that discussion area, and woodshed stuff could possibly? maybe? theoretically? end up in that section. Good luck, and remember "if it ain't broke don't fix it". (which means disregard all my suggestions)steve
*Don't fret Mike. I don't even know what Imur is.and I don't care to either...blue
*Moderated sites suck.Could you possible start a new folder called flames?blue
*Hi Bill, I remember you from 'way back. And I remember those Camelot days as well. They're what I hope to guide this board back to. No one should be afraid to "think outside of the box" for fear of being flamed. Yes, they should be prepared to defend their position, but both challenges and defenses should be based on fact and experience. This means that there may occasionally be some misinformation posted here. Well, this is the internet. Don't trust any information you find here that sets off the hairs on the back of your neck. If you see something posted that you know to be wrong, refute it politely.The person who resorts to invective is simply demonstrating the weakness of their position. The unfortunate side effect of that, of course, is that civil people who come here for fun or knowledge, are driven away by the bile. That's why I've stepped in. I appreciate all of the support you folks have shown on the board and in the numerous e-mails I've received. If you have a problem with what passes here, e-mail me at [email protected]. I'll either fix it, or explain to you why I can't or won't.Best,Andy
*Blue, I don't intend to moderate this site more than I have. I'd prefer not to have to. Unless you don't get me a phone # for Mac Hoists, that is. Well, that's a lie, but I haven't been able to turn up that info and I'd sure appreciate if you could. Sorry, no flame folder here. Try e-mail? Or e-mail me and I'll point you at a discussion board where you can BYO flame thrower. <>Andy
*What is a "moderated" site? Does that mean we have to drink in moderation?
*... just went back to jlc...are u kidding me ?that place used to be slow... now it's a bunch of unidentified people .... and the moderator jumps in on most posts.. often with wrong advice... (IMHO).......tanks.... but no tanks..i'd rather argue with fredl... he was more fun than that scene......
*Hi Andy,I showed up here about a year and half ago. Its about the only place i spend time at on the net. I like it the way it is, unmoderated. Most of the people get along most of the time. That's good enough for me...But hey whad i know, i ain't taunton.joe dps thanks for providing the board. Here pass this bottle of John Power and Sons sippin whiskey around back at the tav.
*This site has gotten overwhelmed by the good ole boy regulars trying to outdo each other with their inane insider oneliners. How many posts in this thread have any meaningful content? Moderate out all the grabass.Clint Searl
*I don't visit JLC nearly as much as I used to. Maybe once every two weeks nowadays unless someone asks me to visit there for some reason.There certainly are fewer posters over there than here. Their content is "purer" in terms of construction. Based upon emails I've received, people feel less welcome to post there then here. I found that whenever I posted there I'd get a slew of inquiring emails. Here at FHB, more people are posting their follow-up questions on the board and only a few email me with questions.Software-wise, this is by FAR the most user-friendly forum around. I've been asked to participate in several other forums and usually walk away in frustration after a few irritating sessions.There have been flame wars here since my arrival well over 3 years ago...nothing has changed in that regard. The biggest change has indeed been in the reduction in quality of construction content and the increase in quantity of drivel.That's what the 'shed is for, but when inane remarks are made on construction threads just for the sake of a poster getting his/her name on the board...I guess I could say it's "uneccessary fodder." It's not my forum, but these are my opinions.I'm not looking for sysop moderation...but it would be nice if users recognized this as a construction-related forum, and with the exception of the 'shed, remembered that it's not generic chat room. I toss out irrelevant comments as well as others, but I try to make them the exception and not the standard.I come to FHB and I go...sometimes I'll post to a dozen threads in one visit, many times I lurk due to being irritated with what I read...but all in all, Andy, what you've got coming from your server is the best that's out there in the ether...drivel and all...and I appreciate it.Thanks.
*Gee, I was looking over there recently and I saw this. (The first response is from the moderator, Michael Byrne, or "mb".) No wonder people feel afraid to post there.
*After reading that, I have to say that MB is an ass! And rude as hell, too. I like it better without a moderator, if that's how a moderator acts.
*Wow! I've seen some take others to task for B.S. or posting incorrect or incomplete information but I've never seen anyone flat out tell someone to take a hike just for asking a question. I hope JLC isn't paying him for the moderation job. That's one sure way to develop a distaste for the sponsor of the siteIf the moderator's job description includes anything at all it should at least define a response that would politely indicate that the forum is for pro's only and then direct the questioner to an appropriate source (I guess he did that - his book). Looks like, from only one reading, that the only interest he has in that forum is to push the sale of his book. You want info, I'm the man - PAY FOR IT.If his second response had not indicated how he really felt (Don't waste my time, DIY or Pro) I probably wouldn't feel that he's not a real moderator, just a self-serving ****** in there for the royalties.
*Believed someone already mentioned it, but each of the JLC forums have a diferent moderator. They do not all have the same personality or style.
*Old Mikey really takes the cake with the two responses he posted in that JLC forum. That business about "not wasting his time....." Well, I doubt ole Mikey knows everything there is to know- contrary to what he may think. What an arrogant (insert your favorite word). Wow. At a loss for words..... Sam
*Ok so much for this MB character winning the congeniality award. I can't begin to tell you how much information this web site has provided me. and to boot I've made some pretty good cyberfriends. please don't go to a moderated format. I, and I think a few others here, like the ability to talk back and forth without someone intervening.
*I have been posting here for about 3-4 years. I must tell you that some of the people that complain the most about flaming have done it themselves. The personality wars don't particularly bother me, they just make the particpants look stupid and immature. There are fairly strong personality types that are know it alls, and want you to know that they know it all. So those types have only one way to vent a roof or pour concrete. I know them from their handles, and take what they say with the proverbial grain of salt. But I wonder what newbees think when they log on, and find raging battles complete with four letter words over venting a roof. Jeez, guys, get a grip, and get a life other than this BB.So I guess I am not in favor of a moderated board, although, some of the flaming comments should be discreetly deleted by you.I hope this helps.
*How sophisticated can this board become?I used that line to get your “click” attention, but it is something for all to consider. Some of you are Masters, and the rest of us are grasshoppers (to borrow from the Kung Fu TV show). Further, home construction has only a relatively limited range of topics, so the same questions are asked again and again.So, is it not possible that many of you who now are seeing this board as becoming filled with “drivel” are on the way to becoming a Master? You have learned by doing, watching, asking, and sometimes getting spanked for really stupid questions--both here and in the “real” world. And you are being replaced by new grasshoppers, asking the same questions.Every so often really interesting topics arise, as with Blue’s thread on efficient framing. The rest of the time it is simply enjoyable being here. Oh, and the rum cake recipe in the Tavern was inspirational!I would offer one modest idea: Eliminate anonymous postings (pseudonyms would still be welcome). Requiring logging in to post would probably eliminate the obnoxious irritants like Just A Guy. And, to get your login password you would have to receive it via email. It would only take a few seconds to accomplish, and the fact that you were registered would hopefully make you think twice about your online behavior.(Oh yes: If you require a password, kindly let us choose one that we can remember, so we can log on from other locations.)
*Spent some more time over at JLC. Couple of observations. Their forums have two parts, ask the experts, and peer-to-peer. The ceramic tile is in the ask the experts. Read a few of the newer entries. Saw answers to questions. Don't understand.
*I've been away from this forum for awhile and was amazed at the lightness of the place when I returned. Perhaps its just gone on so long that no one really has anything new to say, and so its degenerated. In fairness, I think this happens to alot of forums.I once wrote fiction and took several writing workshops. The rules were simple - concentrate on content, stay away from personalities. They were good guidelines and have stood the test of time. Shouldn't it be the same for fine home building?Best and luck to all - Don
*Andy, I'm going to get that Mac Hoist number if it's the last thing I do.I was just kidding about Flame folders however. I certainly wouldn't enter into one, unless someone called me a stooge or something.Just kidding again!Happy with my macs (I'm on my third set), blue
*Blue, I'd appreciate that. And I kinda figured that you were kidding.Andy
*I don't agree with that idea Clint. It's easy to igore the insiders oneliners and post something of substance. A good post that includes sustantitive information will usually be acknowledged or questioned, no matter how many uselss oneliners preceded it. Often the topic has run it's course and the oneliners signify the beginning of the end. Moderating the grabass would certainly open another can of worms. Do your own moderating by not reading it.blue
*Grabass.....I like it...is it a no no word Andy?Cutting through the grabass by the stream,aj
*As long as you're sayin' it and not doin' it, grabass is within the pale.Andy
*Andy,I do like the information I get off JLC, but I really don't like the moderated format. It's way too serious for my tastes.The loosey goosey attitude here is great. The place IS called Breaktime, isn't it. And, while I do visit for facts, mostly I come here when I have a break and feel like a lot of entertainment with a little information. When we take breaks at work, I don't ever want to be in moderated forum, bring on the BS, lighten up. The flamers add a bit of spice to the stew. Is there a way to redirect a burning thread to the woodshed without deleting it? Seems like they all go out with attention deprivation anyway. Bottm line is, though, it's Taunton's house, and we should all play by your rules.By the way, this is still THE best site on the internet for building stuff, and overall, the best people do seem to hang out here. Thanks for the clubhouse, BB
*What about ass scatchin' then? That's okay, isn't it? And maybe a little ass pattin' when the missus walks by?
*Sure Jim, just so it's the wife's your talking about patting!John
*John, You may have misinterpreted my reference to "drivel."Never, ever, have I taken exception to any thread, no matter how advanced or how simple, that relates to construction. Pro, DIYer, hack...I welcome and try to encourage them all. Occasional shop talk? A well-told war story? They're all fine, they're part of the flavor of the board.We actually had an anti-DIYer rant that someone posted a while ago. MY opinion? If DIYer's abandon this forum, to a certain extent it will dry up and become a bit sterile. BTW, I've got to be one of the biggest original DIYer-hacks out there. Repetitive threads can on occasion get a bit tedious, but we all didn't discover this forum at the same time. Most people here don't understand how cumbersome the search function can be, but it is frustrating to find 3 or 4 live threads on the board that are all asking the same question. To me it's only frustrating because one thread will get all the attention, whereas multiple threads get diluted coverage.My "drivel" was refering to tangential comments that are off topic, distracting, or inflammatory. Niether humorous...nor entertaining...not complementary to the subject at hand...not "shop talk"...just garbage being thrown out for the sake of throwing out garbage. Drivel.Personally, I'd never been to the JLC tile forum. I find the moderator's comments on the referenced thread to be pretty darn depressing. His comments? They epitomize drivel. They offer nothing to solve the poster's delimma. He could have remained silent and let another participant offer advice, instead he took a poorly aimed shot with a poorly made weapon at an innocent target. His sad comments brought on others directed at him...additional comments that fail to provide the original poster with ammunition to solve his problem. That's the type of "drivel" that I'm referring to. Comments that don't offer anything to a thread's content other then distraction.Drivel.Regards, Mongo
*Has the Forum changed? Perhaps it has become two or more things. First, what Taunton set it up to be; an exchange of ideas. Then, when Woodshed was added a social thing. And, now it has become a club for some folks, like some of you even went to the trouble of meeting last summer.So, now we have some people who want to stick to building. Some who want to socialize and some who want to add face-to-face friends. And, we have some who for whatever reason just like to stir the pot.To me that just means that at least in cyberspace evolution is a reality. So, relax and enjoy it. If it becomes too much for anyone then take Taunton off the Favorites list and move on.
*Fred, I think the forum constantly evolves...in one aspect, it evolves as the seasons change.Over the past three-plus years, it seems to me that spring and summer are more business-oriented and less chatty. As the boom-boom times slow down and fall approaches and turns into winter, that's when we all seem to get a bit stir-crazy with cabin fever and go a bit nuts.It's a good forum and I enjoy it. I could be a little bit better, but more importantly...it could be a helluva lot worse!
*
I just visited JLC's site and noticed that a lot of you post there as well. I'm curious how you compare their moderated forum to our, uhm, immoderate? unmoderated? version.
Andy