I think I need a molding plane to add a triple bead detail that runs across the grain in the middle of a 3 layer, built up, timber truss, Victorian roof bracket recreation.
Am I right that a molding plane is the only way to do this?
Where can I find such a molding plane?
Replies
one off - carve it.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
I need to take a better picture of what I'm after and post it tomorrow.I need to carve triple beads on 16 4" faces of these brackets. The beads are 1/4" radius (1/2" wide) so the total triple bead detail is 1-1/2" wide.
2 options that pop up to me.
one, just kerf and whittle it round.
Two, a triple bead cutter that fits a moulding head in a TS or RAS. I have one here. Problem is cross grain is iffy as far as tear out.
A beading plane would have to have a set up as a center bead ( two box wood skates following the iron) not edge bead, and again, the cross grain will blow out more than likely.
So, if it were me, I'd kerf and then use a trim plane set really fine to round over the beads, sweep the floor first so ya can find the chip that will inevedibly pop off and masking tape and glue for putting it back on.
Tha triple bead cutter is screen moulding scale, 1/8" beads , if ya care to know.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"People that never get carried away should be"
1/4" radius (1/2" wide beads). I'll post a better pic later.
That bit can be had.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"People that never get carried away should be"
Brainstorm here. Could you dado out the cross grain and APPLY a screen moulding? Flush? or a derivitive that could be routed or milled long grain...just skip the glue and 23 ga pin it.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"People that never get carried away should be"
I like the dado and inlay idea.
Mark showed the bit I was referring to, I couldn'tgetthe picture to paste when I mentioned http://www.routerbits.com they carry them in a few different radiusususus.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"People that never get carried away should be"
I have an old molding head I got at Sears that has a triple bead cutter... works on a table or radial arm saw... 1 pass vs 6??? hmmmmmm...If the spacing's not exactly right, it's not too hard to make new cutters from the the relief cutters... still a $250 setup charge<G> Winterlude, Winterlude, my little daisy,
Winterlude by the telephone wire,
Winterlude, it's makin' me lazy,
Come on, sit by the logs in the fire.
The moonlight reflects from the window
Where the snowflakes, they cover the sand.
Come out tonight, ev'rything will be tight,
Winterlude, this dude thinks you're grand.
I think I would build a jig that lets a trim router with a core bit pivot at an arc to match what you have.
Actually I just found a PLUNGE BEADING BIT at Routerbits.com that would maybe do the trick, depending on the radius of the beads and the space between them. No bearing guide, just use a fence to guide the router..Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"People that never get carried away should be"
I'm lost...I don't know how a router could be used to add a bead detail to built up timbers across the grain.Here's a pic of what I need to copy:
Rout across grain with these bits.
http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/orderstatus/html/smarthtml/pages/bt_groov.htmlView Image
Thanks for the link. They do have the 1/2" diam bead bit I need.I think I will jig it up and see how it goes. Several light passes. If too much tearout or other problems plague me, then I will just plow a dado and inlay a triple bead molding. I'll buy some molding too and have it on hand as a backup plan.
My jig idea is a box that goes around the timber for a guide, which can be clamped down, with a couple 1/2" thick spacers. Rout around once, remove 1 spacer and re-clamp etc.
Good idea. I will give that a try.Thanks...This is turning into a group project. <g>
Basswood-I may have missed something.Have you stripped some of the paint off to reveal fabrication clues?
No. I can tell they did the beading after build up of the beams (cross-grain--not inlayed moldings).I can also tell they half lapped the joints in the 2.5" thick center layer and ran the outside layers over the lapped joints. Also the rosettes are just decorative (no hidden hardware there).
I'm a handtool guy, so my first thought would be much different than most.
1st I'd draw the bead lines
2nd kerf with a pull saw to depth the lines
3rd take a v-gouge and rough shape
4th take a hollow molding plane of whatever diameter is required & run from both sides.
A little sanding & it wouldn't take long to finish.
This approach may seem odd but if the orignal is fairly old it is likely to be close to how it was done the first time.
The traditional methods have a wonderful appeal. I might give that a try. I have embarassingly little experience with hand tools and techniques for a professional carpenter.
I have some router bits that would do that. Don't know the name of them 'cause I got them in a garage sale deal.The bit tapers down rolling into a point, so the pointy tip would be the deepest part of your relief and the shoulders form the bead. The tricky part is that you'd have to set up jig for four passes around that bugger edit - those guys show it.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Edited 12/15/2007 4:45 am ET by Piffin
Oops. Pic didn't make it.
basswood,
Would something like this do it?
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=30178&cat=1,46168,46173&ap=1
Ron
I can't tell from the picture how big the beading is, but how about making your own screen molding from dowels?
You could temporarily set the the dowels in a dado to the right depth and then belt sand across to get a flat surface on the dowels. Then the flat side could be glued to a backer and the resulting "screen molding" could be set into a dado on the finish piece. I've tried ripping dowels on a table saw, but I've never really been happy with the results.
I'm just sort of brainstorming with this idea, but I have a feeling that this would be too many individual pieces to ensure longevity in an outdoor environment.
The easiest way to split round stock like a twig or dowel is a VEE block and a bandsaw. I have done miles of it, making White Willow Twig Furniture.
Just ripa 2x6 at 45 degees and flip one half around so the long points meet. Attach to a base of 1/4" ply and run the BS blade about a few inches into the vee. Clamp it down there, and start ripping your stuff. Works for making a drive center cross on square stock headed for the lathe too.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"People that never get carried away should be"
This entire thread is just an online brainstorm session. It has been great to get all the ideas. There are a variety of ways to do this, based on the feedback. This part of the project had me concerned. When I think of how they did this 120 years ago with saw kerfs and molding planes...amazing. It will be interesting to experiment with these ideas. Nice to learn something new and stretch a bit.
One thing that came to mind. If you use the molding plane or the router sneak up on the final dimention. You would have less chance of breaking off pieces. You could also get about half way there and put a penetrating sealer on it to strengthen the area.
The sealer for strength is an interesting idea. I seldom work across grain with a router.thanks.
"Point cutting roundover" bit is what you want. View Image
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
When I saw the pictures of that bit, I thought "Well duh!" The vast majority of my bits have bearings and are for edging. The few nonbearing bits I have usually end up in my router table and I knew that would not work.This project is more of a woodworker thing and is a stretch for a trim carpenter with my limited experience.Thanks.
Those are interesting and fun projects aren't they. It's also pretty valuable to see how old woodwork holds up and what works and what doesn't.
It's amazing the old carpenters were able to do what they did with nothing but hand tools. I suppose they will say the same of you and I in 100 years. *chuckle*
Happy Holidays
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Given the number of RR Stations and other building built around the country starting about the 1850's and running through the early teens of the 1900's I wouldn't be surprised that that knee brace isn't an off the shelf part from some millwork plant. Sometimes we don't give the those old carps enough credit for being able save their own labor by buying from factories . Not only do we underestimate the work the old boys could do , we underestimate how much of it they didn't do.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Not only do we underestimate the work the old boys could do , we underestimate how much of it they didn't do
Well said!
I remodeled a house in MT Vernon, Iowa, built around 1850. I removed some trim from a part of the house that was getting major improvements with the intent to reuse it in other places where it had disappeared.
On the back of some of the trim there was stenciling from a millwright shop somewhere out east. All this trim was sent out by rail.
Doug
we underestimate how much of it they didn't do
That's for sure.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.