I’m in the midst of remodeling my existing deck (cantilevered 2nd story deck, with untreated doug fir 2 x 10 joists). I’ve torn off the old decking, and found no sign of rot anywhere. All new framing that I’m adding (blocking, rim joists, stringers) is pressure treated doug fir.
Here is where I need some thoughts:
I used a pressure washer to remove the loose paint from the joists. On average I’d say that about half of the wood is bare (in a random pattern), while on the other half the paint stayed on (which I assume means that it has good adhesion). I plan to prime and paint the joists prior to reinstalling new decking.
Questions:
At some point someone recommended using Termin8 to apply to the untreated joists to give them some protection. Can I just roll this stuff over the joists, or will it not stick well to painted areas (it seems to be designed to soak into the wood, not to be applied as a paint)? Or should I use their Clear Preservative instead? Or should I just skip the preservative (given that I have no rot on this 30 y.o. deck) and just go with primer and paint?
Thanks in advance!
Leon
Replies
i'm not familiar withthat rpoduct so I won't comment on that but as to the pressure washing, you may have made a bad assumption about the remaining paint being well adhered. I would advise still running over it with a scraper and disc sander. Most times, the washer will miss some edges that are quite loose. Also, the surface tension of the water, will hold a chip in place, making it appear very well adhered. Even spots that are stuck pretty good will begin to flake away as the wood dries again and the wood fibres shrink faster where exposed than where still wet under the paint spot.
Excellence is its own reward!
Just a thought...Since the joists are not pressure-treated you might think about putting stips of felt or ice & water barrier on top before the decking. Maybe they'll last another 30 years!
Al Mollitor Sharon, MA
piffin,
"you may have made a bad assumption about the remaining paint being well adhered. I would advise still running over it with a scraper and disc sander."
I KNEW you were going to say that! :). OK, I did notice that even after the pressure washing, there are still some areas that appear to be questionable, so there is there much truth to your comment. But I was really hoping to avoid scraping about 900 square feet of joist material to bare wood (especially since it's mostly unseen once the decking boards are installed). So, would you suggest "loosely" running a scraper or a disc sander over the painted areas and see what comes off, or do you recommend trying to scrape it all off to bare wood? I shudder to think of the latter...
Al,
"Since the joists are not pressure-treated you might think about putting stips of felt or ice & water barrier on top"
Yup, that's part of the plan :). Thanks!!
Why??????....do you want to save old lumber to build something new?
Your new treated 2 X 10" lumber can be 1/2" taller than than the old wood.
When fastening your new decking the nails or screws will have less holding power if they go into the old screw or nail holes.
If your deck is truly 30 years old I would recommend replacing the framing with some new incised pressure treated doug fir posts, beams and joists.
Bob
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
"Why??????....do you want to save old lumber to build something new?"
Sorry, I should have clarified: I am replacing all the lumber that I can get to easily (i.e. posts, stairs, blocking, rim joists, etc). Unfortunately, the main joists (all 60 of them) are cantilevered, which means they extend 15 feet INTO the house structure and form the main floor joists for the interior of the house. Since they are in good shape (aside from the fact that they are not treated), I am not planning to tear out half the house to get them out.
the main joists (all 60 of them) are cantilevered
Wow! 60 X 16" = 960" Divided by 12= 80' of deck. No wonder you don't want to replace them.
You should check with your local building department before you spend much more time trying to save all those joists. They may require you to cut them off, flash,fasten new ledger and support beam.
Here is a case where the builder has put cantilever on top of cantilever and the deck and wall weight has settled 2". I have to jack this up and put some support under it before it falls on somebody. Bob
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Whoa, whoa, whoa!
How much is this deck cantilievered?
I'll tell you right now that if you're rebuilding this deck that's 30 years old, I'll almost guarantee that new codes won't allow for anything more than a 2 foot cantiliever using wood.
We'v had to rebuild balconies that cantiliever 4 ft. on the backs of some townhouses by adding posts and new ledgers or removing them entirely.
"We've had to rebuild balconies that cantiliever 4 ft. on the backs of some townhouses by adding posts and new ledgers or removing
them entirely."
Yeah, that was my original thought (the deck is cantilevered 6 ft). But after talking to the city, they were much happier to approve keeping the existing structure and just doing the decking and railing remodel, than adding a beam and posts. The latter would have required engineering, soil tests, plan checks, etc, to the tune of $5,000 before I ever lifted a hammer. Not to mention lots of haggling with the Building and Safety Dept... I decided to pass on that fun :(.
Leon
You might want to ask Jasco about which product is the best for this application. They have a contact page on there web site.
http://www.jasco-help.com/products/prod_wp.htm
But looking at the products I think that Termin-8 is designed more for underground applications. It is 25% copper naphthenate.
And while it is paintable it does not indicate that it is a water repellant like the clear does.
But I don't think any of them will do any good over any part with paint on it.
And whatever you use I would paint it after treating it.
"You should check with your local building department before you spend much more time trying to save all those joists. They may require you to cut them off, flash,fasten new ledger and support beam."
Bob,
I checked with the city before starting, and they gave me the permit to remodel the deck without changing the structure :). It is quite sound, and with all the blocking I'm adding, it's only going to get stiffer.
"You might want to ask Jasco about which product is the best for this application."
Bill,
I just got off the phone with Jasco, and you are absolutely correct. Termin8 is for below ground applications, but neither it nor the clear preservative can go over paint. It's designed to soak into wood.
So, I will probably go over the remaining paint to knock off the loose stuff, and then just go with primer and paint and be done with it. I never wanted to make such a project out of something that won't even be seen when it's done :).
Leon