More fit and finish under the roof
DelawareDave61
| Posted in General Discussion on
While checking out the bay window roof and the electrical conduit penetrating the garage roof, I saw a bunch of other things that look like they could cause water damage. Are these things that should be fixed, and if yes, how?
Thank you!
Replies
I don't see why caulk wouldn't fix it. then again I'm not positive
electricity entices me
What is it that you think needs caulk?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
There was one pic that seemed like there was a gap betwen the trim board and faca board where water could get in. View ImageCorner_piece_sticks_out.jpg
electricity entices me
Edited 1/23/2008 6:48 pm ET by andyfew322
You're sharp kiddo, real sharp!And caulk might help that spot if it doesn't pop free. Lesson for you today - Vinyl does move a lot, so caulk does njot always stick. It has to be a very flexable caulk like geocell.
And caulk often traps water more than it keeps out as a general principle. That spot might be a place to use it though.
Horizontal siding joints should never be caulked. Remember that one.Lesson two - all vinyl - well, all siding - will let some water in. The secret to proper installation is to do the underlayment and flashing details right so that it leads water downhill and not back in again. There was a pretty good article on the subject in FHB about 2-1/2 year ago. get out your archive CD and study up!;)You passed this test fine though.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
other than amissing piece of drip edge at roof on that last phot, things look good - for vinyl. the roof is not complete without the metal drip edge. That is like leaving a piece of baseboard off the room inside
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
the roof is not complete without the metal drip edge.
Thank you!
Catch me up to speed - is this a house that you just bought? Thinking of buying? New house - used? Just had sided? What? I'm guessing from the tid bits I see here and in other threads that it is a new, less expensive home. National builder?
Re the pics, my opinion is that all of these places could have been dealt with a little better. I'll probably get blasted here for saying this, but since the job is I assume well past complete - the best thing to do at this point would be to just caulk the bad spots with clear silicone caulk. Then you may need to check the caulked places every few years to see how they are holding up and re-apply a little where necessary. Caulk doesn't work with vinyl siding real well because vinyl moves around during the seasonal summer heat and winter cool. Unless you can get the siders to come back and tighten up on these little areas. The missing drip edge just needs to be replaced. They sell that at the big box.
One thing important to understand about a vinyl install: It's just a primary drainage plane. It's not a waterproof cladding. For example, gaps are left at the ends of the regular lap siding panels to allow for expansion and contraction. Water can get in. Gravity is depended on to keep the water just flowing down, and hopefully not into the structure. If there is wind and rain at the same time, water will get behind the siding. This is why the detailing of the flashing and housewrap or builders paper before the siding is installed is so important.
Catch me up to speed - is this a house that you just bought? Thinking of buying? New house - used? Just had sided?
It's a 20 year-old house we bought in '94: A pretty standard 4-BR, 2 1/2 bath, 2-car development home. The project is motivated by our need to look after my wife's very ill father-in-law.
We started by planning to build a first-floor bedroom and handicapped accessible bathroom for him, and then found that we could get more bang for our buck by also upgrading the master bedroom suite and putting in a 5-piece master bath, turning the family room into a great room, adding to the full-basement, and doing a complete roofing and siding job.
since the job is I assume well past complete - the best thing to do at this point would be to just caulk the bad spots with clear silicone caulk.
The project is on-going, with one more payment to make. Intend to hold out for things to be done right, and putting together an impressive punchlist. The big issues here are that the cost of all fixes are likely to excede the value of the remaining payment, and we're likely to refuse a badly installed hardwood floor (see "Bulge in new hardwood floor") and have someone else do it.
It's vinyl, commonly understood to leak like a sieve, that's why there are drain holes under each course. I'm sure the building envelope, flashing, house wrap, etc. was scrutinized before they covered things up, wasn't it?
I don't understand, where does the concern come from. I this just a house that you drove by and saw? Is it your brother-in-laws house and you are trying to bang his head? Or is it a house you just purchased and are trying to get out of the contract? Vinyl Siding is not water proof and as best I know it is not required to pass wind tests, and I never saw a place of higher education offering a degree in Vinyl Siding Installation. These are cosmetic, with the possible exception of the trim under the shingles. Have the buyer refund $100 of the purchase price and get them fixed.
class... CLASS.... CLASS!!!!!!
these threads run together...
http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=99877.2http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=99875.2http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=99881.4http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=99831.21http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=99810.35http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=99240.1http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=99439.1http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=98987.73
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
That is my point. What is with this house? What is with the questions and the background? How much did he pay to have the siding done? These posts raise more questions than there are answers for.
go back and read all the threads on this remodel / addition to the OP's home...
at least the 1st several posts in each thread...
The HO has Q's as to what is is right, wrong or what will / might come back and haunt him...
The Ho is treating each problem with it's own thread so that all together everything doesn't get over whelming...
he's doing fine...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I guess, but I would rather look at the whole pie rather than each slice. IMHO it becomes redundant. But to continue with process, the HO is at least questioning the work, if not upset with the work. What is the outcome that he is looking for? If he is going to fix the problems himself or hire someone else to fix them then they are all problems that should be fixed. If he is looking to the forum to justify getting a refund for the work that is done then they should be all posted together. That's all, got to go fix a roofing cedar shake job that was done wrong 10 years ago.
This is an addition so the HO can maintain a relative with poor health in a home health care situation.
The contractor made some bad errors in the install of a wood floor that led to a loss of confidnece and now the owner is trying to figure out what else is right or wrong before having a meeting with him to detail the punch list as I understand it
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Ok, so I missed that part. Yes, there are many things that the contractor should address, the unfortunate part is what about the things the HO can't see. I think that this is the time to get an arbitrator.
I still say let's get Dave to take his house apart....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Hey, put it off until the end of February and I would be available to help.
something wrong with those links.
I know Dave has several thread s running, but those links take me to the old copper pipe thread
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
they do....
and I copied each from the list....
BTW...
welcome tp prospero...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
new list of good links - I thinkhttp://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=99875.1http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=99881.1http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=99831.1http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=99810.1http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=99240.1http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=99439.1http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=98987.1
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Thanks. I think we kinda got the whole picture now...
i think your making yourself miserable looking for all these things.you can look at the roof edge and know it's not right. if it wasn't needed they wouldn't of put it around the rest of the roof. should of been address the day the roof went on.same with the ridge cap.
i think you need to stand back and pick the things that really need fixed and tell the contractor and go on.if not your going to worry yourself sick.
evrybody here can give advice but none of us is standing there and know exacatly what the builder was doing. i'd spend 300.00 and hire a inspector to came out and go over the addition with a trained eye and see what he comes up with and trust his judement on what needs to be fixed. larry
if a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
If I were him, I wouldn't spend the $300 when he can get it done here free and we get to smugly tell him he got screwed! Don't mess with our fun! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
But there is so much we don't get to see.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
let's have Dave dismantle his house for a look see....
and Blue can have even more fun...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
As I drove away this morning, I was thinking the same thing. He needs somebody on site to see what needs to be seen and advise accordingly.
This particular thread and photos don't show anything serious as I recall, but there are some serious issues with performance on this job and he just wants to know what's what before initiating the battle with his contractor.A lot of these photos show very good work and a lot show very poor work. I get the overall impression that the contractor is a pretty skilled guy but he is not qualified as a general contractor and is unable to manage other people so he lets them get away with poor work.
Hard to say for sure, but that's my impression.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
i'd spend 300.00 and hire a inspector to came out and go over the addition with a trained eye and see what he comes up with and trust his judement on what needs to be fixed.
We're on it.
How long did it take for the contractor to put the siding on? It looks slapped together.
First picture the small piece of corner is an eye sore. How tall is that wall? They make 12' corners looks like they used a 10', and a piece. The question is where the siding slides into the corner, are they just butted together? The channel needs to be overlapped to provide drainage.
In cases where the tops of the corners are exposed I buy vinyl surround. It looks like half a vinyl coner, the flange gets nailed to the wall and the other side snaps into a starter strip. The top of the corner and the surround get mitered for a leak free transition. They even make a crown molding that snaps into the flange for a really finished look.
Picture 3: this is common error in vinyl siding, happens all the time. It doesn't have to happen but I think most don't care enough to do it right. The corner gets nailed on, then they stuff the J into the corner. That causes the corner to flare out like the picture. The back nail flange of the J needs to slide behind the nail flange of the corner. It doesn't flare the corner out that way.
The miters on the J look to be done horribly wrong. Having to clip the tips of the miters is a rookie mistake.
This is how J should be cut and installed, this is the bottom of a side piece. The miter is bent around and tucked into the bottom piece locking the miter together.
View Image
This is the bottom, notice the nail flanges are left long, this flashes the opening away from any holes or edges of th ehouse wrap.
View Image
Woods favorite carpenter
How come all your pics are titled "minges barn"?
Forrest - just wondering
Wait a minute. That reminds me of the old joke about the groom catching the best man with his new bride during the reception. He said "Look everybody. My buddy's so drunk he think's he's me".http://grantlogan.net/
"Because I really want to live in a country where the poor people are fat. "- Unidentified Indian Immigrant when asked why he wants to come to America
I started one file for pictures and never started another. Until the Kitchen with a cathedral thread.
Looking through 200 pictures gets time consuming. I need to organize them. Woods favorite carpenter
How long did it take for the contractor to put the siding on? It looks slapped together.
One day. Big crew of Illegal Mexican labor. Didn't realize he was using illegals till the end of the day, and by then the job was nearly complete.
I'm not happy about the illegals, and the contractor definitely knew what he was doing. It won't happen again.
First picture the small piece of corner is an eye sore...This is how J should be cut and installed, this is the bottom of a side piece. The miter is bent around and tucked into the bottom piece locking the miter together.
All good advice. I'm just going to write it up and give it to the contractor to re-do.
Edited 1/26/2008 12:44 pm ET by DelawareDave61
Check the wall height, if it's under 12' make him get a full length corner.
The pictures of the J I posted make the miters lock together and they won't come apart. Leaving the flanges flashes the opening to a small extent.
Go and look, pull on the face of a piece of J and look past their cuts. What do you see? If house wrap or OSB it's wrong. If you see vinyl thats the color of the J then it's going to shed water away from your opening.
Woods favorite carpenter
Check the wall height, if it's under 12' make him get a full length corner. It is and I will.
The pictures of the J I posted make the miters lock together and they won't come apart. Leaving the flanges flashes the opening to a small extent. I'll show him.
Go and look, pull on the face of a piece of J and look past their cuts. What do you see? If house wrap or OSB it's wrong. If you see vinyl thats the color of the J then it's going to shed water away from your opening. Depending on where you look, you'll see OSB, house wrap, or vinyl. Except that sometimes you don't have to pull the j-channel to see the OSB. Appears that some of the siders knew what they were doing and others didn't.
Thats not your problem, some guys being experienced and others not being.
It is their problem and they need to fix it to get paid. Hope its not too late for that. Woods favorite carpenter