mortising hinges on a door replacement
a neighbor wants to replace an exterior door at his daughter’s condo. If the weather was warmer, he could take off the old door and use it to mark the location for the hinge mortises on the new door. There is also no place to work at the condo location. I suggested he take two thin strips of wood about an inch wide and overlap the two strips, so the combined length is more than 80 inches, the height of the door. He would put the strip combination inside the vertical door frame and slide the strips until the “story” stick extends the length of the door frame. A couple of tight rubber bands would keep the stick at the correct length. He would then mark the overlapping position on the story stick and mark the locations of each door frame hinge on the stick.
Back at his workshop, he could transfer the hinge mortise locations to the new door and cut the mortises. The story stick would be slightly longer then the door; so the stick would have to be placed on the door to allow for an overlap at each end of the door.
Is there anything wrong with my suggestions? This neighbor is handy, but not very experienced with installing doors.
Thanks for any help.
John
Replies
That would work fine but I would save one trip and mortice on site in the front hall or whatever. A sharp chisel won't make a mess and will get it done by the time you find a place to a router in. If you use the story pole trick make sure to check the existing jamb for square as well and check the latch mortices too.
Rik
thanks for your reply. The latch is a 1 inch round latch that is driven straight in to the door handle assembly through a 1 inch round drilled hole. There is no mortise for the latch because there is no latch plate.
Thanks again,
John
Unless the new door slab is a perfect match for the old he is most likely going to be leaving some shavings, offcuts or sawdust other than from the hinge mortises.
I would just hang a tape from the top of the existing door on the hinge side and record the measurements to be transfered to the new door. A sharp chisel, just like the old days, will do the trick. After that he would fit the slab to the opening and then install the lockset.
He should also find a place to work at the condo. Not everyone can fit a slab just working from the shop. Put all the tools you might need in a mud bucket and work on the front stoop, back porch or the room inside the doorway. Tarps to catch the big stuff and the condo probably needs a Christmas cleaning anyhow.<G>
atracoma is right. Hanging a door can be confusing to the moderately skilled. You just made the job tougher for him. Better to shim the new door in the opening for fit then mark the hinges.
Best to you and yours, Chris.
Some say I know too much.
shimming the door sounds like a great idea. The door frame is probably not square, so it will take some on sight adjustments. I will revise my advice to my neighbor.
Thanks again.
John
The door has to fit in the opening first. You make it fit by trimming, cutting and testing (Re-shimming in the opening) until your satisfied with the final fit. FHB has an article on it somewhere. Once fitted, if your careful, your hinge mortises won't be off a micro hair. Strike plates too.Best to you and yours, Chris.
Some say I know too much.
Dont forget he may need a hand lpane (since he doesnt want dust everywhere to plane the bevel on the door.
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True. But I find it hard to believe there isn't a patch of grass in sight of the building. A patio or somewhere.Best to you and yours, Chris.
Some say I know too much.
Me to unless its one of those new fangled work life condo / lofts
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I've hung about a thousand doors or thereabouts, mostly new.
Retrofits, I place the new door next to the old and cut accordingly.
Shimming a new door in an old frame is about the best idea I never thought of.
ThanksMay neighbors respect You, and troubles neglect You.
Gord
I don't understand how shimming the door in the opening will accomplish his primary goal, which, if I understood correctly, is to mortise the door offsite.
Shimming is a good idea if the old door isn't a perfect fit since it won't serve as a good template. But if the old door is a good fit, what advantage does shimming offer?
First, observe the existing door while closed and determine if you like the fit. Pay close attention to the top hinge-side corner. Hopefully, it's square. If not, you should cut the new door out of square to match it.
Second, measure everything! and transfer those measurements to a diagram of the door opening. Don't forget the hinge backset and the hinge thickness to avoid binding.
Third, make a storyboard stick the exact length of the door. With this stick you should be able to mark all three hinges(top of door to top of hinge), all lock locations(top of door to centerline of lock bore), and the width measured in at least 3 locations. The storyboard is just a verification of your diagram measurements.
Fourth, take the stick and the diagram to the shop and make some sawdust. Seal the top and bottom now.(Because it will never be easier)
Then hang the dang door and hold out your hand. $250 ought to do it.
thank you for your response and detailed instructions. I am now very curious about this door. May have to join my neighbor on a trip.
John
just an update on my original post about replacing an old door. My neighbor and I took a ride to his daughter's condo. The old door was in pretty bad shape, but the door frame was square and in pretty good shape. We shimmed the new door in the frame and marked all of the hinge and strike plate locations and cut the mortises, etc. on site. The daughter was very happy with her new door.
Thanks for all of your feedback and suggestions
John
It seems I get one right now and again. The shims I mean.Best to you and yours, Chris.
Some say I know too much.
take the old door off, tack a sheet of luan in the doorway to keep out the weather, then take the old door back to the shop for the layout on the new door. Transferring mortise locations, etc. to a story pole that is longer than the door, then bringing that story pole to the next county to transfer the marks to a door slab is just asking for headaches.
we didn't use the story pole. the old door was in pretty bad shape. It had two different size hinges, and the hinge mortises had been "repaired" more than once.
We did everything on site.
Thanks for your comments.
John
Well John, your suggestions will certantly work for you r friend but it seems like an awful lot of unnecessary work and running around. Everything your friend needs to do can be done right there in the doorway in about 20 minutes, (provided the new door doesn't have to be cut down.
Lay a tarp on the floor. This will make cleanup quick and easy.
Set the new door into place. Use a space at the top of the door. Take a "Wonderbar" at the bottom of the door. Step on the Wonderbar rasing the door tight against the spacer at the top of the door. Take a pencil and mark the hing locations on the door. Remove the door from the opening and lay it on it's side. Take a Hinge and trace its outline onto the side of the door. Use a good sharp chisel to cut out to the depth of the hinge. If your friend has a router this can go even quicker. When this is done take a screw driver or screw gun and put the hinges on the new door and hang the door back up.
If the hole for the door handle has already been drill you may have to adjust the height of the strike plate. If not set the hieght of the whole to line up with the existing strikeplate. A simple way of doing this is to find dead centre on the strike plate and draw pencil line across to the door. Measure the backset on the old door to tell where to drill your hole. If you are using new door hardware you can use the backset template that comes with the door handle. There is also a door handle installation kit available that comes with a plastic template two hole saws and instruction manual. These thing are awesome. Worth every penny.
It's really quite simple and alot easier than lugging that door all over the place. That can get really inconvenient if he makes a mistake or needs to take a little more off.
I hope that helps.
Dave
That was a great post. I've usually used the old door as a template and wondered how I would do it if I didn't have the old door. Of course, your technique starts with a door that fits the opening, but the spacer on top and the pry bar below were great tips.
If I were working alone (as I usally do), I would probably use shims under the door rather than a pry bar.
-Don
Actually, that is how I do it alone. I just did 5 of them about three weeks ago. Quick and easy. Works like a charm.
Dave