We currently have a light at the top of the stairs that is controlled by a 3 way switch. You can turn the light on at the bottom of the stairs, walk up, and then turn it off. Very convenient.
However, we’d also like to have a light at the bottom of the stairs – preferably on the same circuit. So, you flip the switch at the bottom of the stairs – both lights go on – you walk up the stairs, flip the switch, and both lights go off.
Is it possible to have a 3 way switch with two lights on it, or is the wiring too complicated in an “old work” situation?
To make things really complicated, what we really want is to have a 3rd light, and a 3rd switch, at the other end of the hall from the top of the stairs. So, you flip the switch – the light at the bottom of the stairs turns on, top of the stairs turns on, end of the hallway turns on – you walk up the stairs and go to the end of the hallway, and switch off all 3 lights.
Is this possible? Is it possible in an existing construction situation?
Replies
Putting two lights on a set of 3-ways is simple -- you just wire the second light in parallel to the first. (You feed both lights from the same pair of power/neutral conductors).
Adding another switch makes this a 4-way system. It's possible, but you're gonna have to fish some wires. You may want to consider an X-10 system -- kind of a wireless remote switch concept that works fairly well -- if you don't want to do the wiring. The big boxes have these systems. If you do go with a wired system, I like the newer electronic switches. A bit more expensive, but easier to wire.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Best thing for you is to find a book that gives you simple diagram of 3 way and 4 way switches. These switches confuse me all the time and I don't do enough of them (not an electrician) to remember them by heart.
If you know enough to install lights and switches, important things to remember (besides the safety) is label all wires with numbered tape or colored tape. Make sure these tapes are well stuck. They can come off in the middle of work and you may very well forget which goes where. As you remove each wire, draw a picture of the switch (with right screws named or which side is up, etc) and which wire goes where. Use electrical tape and label with ball point pen.
Switches also have power source and fixture outlet. It is important to identify these 2 items. Extra light may be wired fairly easily if present 3 way is powered at the switch and fixture gets only switch controlled power and neutral.
You can get research material from library. My book is written by Thomas Colvin and has simplified and easy to see diagrams. This book, however, shows only one way of wiring 4 way with power source going directly to fixture box. Good luck and get most recent issue of FHB for using voltage meters.
I assume you are planning on doing the work yourself? If so are you comfortable with 3-way switches? If you can understand the different ways a 3-way can be built, you can figure out a way to do the 4-way in your situation with a good diagram from a book.
Being comfortable with a multi-meter is crucial to this process. Any time I work with complicated circuits, I like to be able to check my system before I power it up. Labelling the wire is a good idea, but ineveitably one of the labels will fall off. But if you know how to use the multi-meter safely you can always sort out all of the wires again.
In particular, make sure you can test for voltage in a live circuit (i.e. from hot-to-neutral or hot-to-ground) and for resistance in a dead circuit. I use resistance all the time to identify different components of a complicated circuit.
What you propose isn't that difficult. A wireless system may be the best solution unless you are intent on pulling wires. Before you start any work, i would recommend you gently pull the existing switches away from their enclosures. Then, using a quality meter, determine where the power (hot) is coming from. The problem with 3-ways is that there are numerous ways they can be laid out. You could have the sequence of :
switch/light/switch
or
switch/switch/light
or
light/switch/switch
Until you know and understand the sequence you have, and how you wish to change it, don't go unhooking wires.
I have had several clients who have tried to do their own 3-way switch upgrades(toggle to modern, etc) only to discover that after they have finished it doesn,t work.
I have found that taking several pictures with my digital camera, before I start, at least gives me a reference point.
I also keep a spare 3-way switch in my electrical odds and ends container. Why? So i can use it along with my tester to refresh my failing memory as to what "common" means.
Figuring out how to install/upgrade/fix 3 and 4-way systems is a skill few HOs have, and they will compensate you accordingly
toolman65
look at this site. I found it helpful when I did a three way settup http://www.danswiringpage.com/