I appologize for this long letter but I want the reader to follow all the incidents.
We purchased a new home built by a company in March 2004. <!----> <!---->
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The construction of the house is slab on grade with a frost wall with in floor heating. (note the heating has been tested with no apparent leaks)
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Within days of moving in we started to notice a slight musty smell in the main bathroom. <!---->
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We contacted the contractor regarding this smell and they refused to acknowledge the problem. On this visit, it was also brought to thier attention the water around the outside of the slab and under the porch. I was told by the contractorthe water would evaporate and not to worry. <!---->
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In April 2004, we had noticed water gushing out of a hole around the septic. We contacted the contractor and it was discovered that there had been 3 breaks one at the main sewage pipe into the house. In March 2005, we noticed water gushing out around the septic again. (picture attached) <!---->
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As the smell (musty) in the bathroom became heavier I contacted the contractor and their plumbers were sent to my home. They removed and resealed the toilet. Not long after, the smell became so severe especially under the sink it was nauseating. The plumbers returned and caulked the pipes around the wall. <!---->
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During the summer the water under the porch and around the house did not evaporate and we were finding we had a lot of mosquitoes and a frog(s) which had taken up residence. We contacted the contractor and they removed 4 boards from the porch pumped out the water and filled dirt up to the top of the boards to prevent the water from accumulating under the porch. <!---->
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However the water around the house and hole they had put into the frost wall to repair the main sewage pipe had filled with water. I contacted the contractor and they send a mini excavator out to channel the water from the hole and around the house. The water only dropped to the bottom level of the hole. The water gushed out for approximately 4 hours and continued to drain for another 5 – 6 hours. A week later the mini excavator returned and punched another hole in the frost wall on the opposite side of the house approximately 2 feet below the last hole. The water gushed out for another 4 hours. They installed a white plastic pipe into the hole to drain off to the side. They felt there was no need to go down to the footing.<!---->
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We then hired an engineer in October to help us. His conclusions were as follow:<!---->
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1. Lack of perimeter Drainage of structure <!---->
2. The perimeter of the building is not transporting the water away from the structure as per the NBCC 1995<!---->
3. Not proper lot drainage ditches new the road(s)<!---->
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My son has asthma and in June 2004 ended up on life support because of a severe asthma attack. We believe our Sons’ condition is directly linked to the severe mold problem in our home. <!---->
As the mold conditions became worse, my husband and I made a final decision to have him moved from the house. On occasions when he returned to visit he explained: “it felt like I was trying to breath through a strawâ€. <!---->
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We then officially contacted New Home Warranty through “request for reconciliation†in October. <!---->
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New Home Warranty arrived and concluded to the builder representative that the issue in the bathroom needed to be dealt with immediately. <!---->
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They then removed the shower. I noticed (picture attached) the boards around the perimeter of the drain showed signs of water damage. They sealed the hole with cement. Behind the shower the vapor barrier had not been sealed properly and the boards and insulation were soaked and had quite a bit of black mold. They put 2 blower heaters and dried the wood and reinstalled the insulation and vapor barrier (pictures attached). Both builder and New Home Warranty concluded the problem was due to improper insulation and the vapor barrier not sealed properly allowing moisture to enter the wall.<!---->
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The clean out pipe that was located in the supporting wall and the crack in the concrete that ran along the bathroom wall had to be sealed due to the heavy earthy musty smell omitting from these areas. After this work was complete, the odor in the bathroom improved 99%.
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Within a week the smell had returned and by February it was now also in the den, hallway, kitchen family and laundry rooms.<!---->
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Discouraged, my husband and I decided shortly after to hire a company to take air sample. Their findings reported that the bathroom sample contained 87 CFU/m3 (Colony forming units per cubic meter of air). The composite sample from the hallway and under the kitchen sink contained 22 CFU/m. The outdoor sample which was collected for comparison to the indoor samples contained 5 CFU/m3.
The airborne mould concentrations for the indoor samples were not unusually high however, the mould species Asperigillus versicolor was present in both samples (21 CFU/md in the bathroom and 7 CFU/ms in the hallway/kitchen).<!---->
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Since the original samples were collected the entire bottom floor (excluding living and dining rooms) are affected and the laundry room upstairs occasionally. <!---->
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Shortly after we occupied our home we noticed an odor in the upstairs bathroom. We were told the problem was the water and we would require an aerator which costs approximately $500.00. Upon having this system installed the situation improved. However there still remained a smell. Contractor's plumbers installed an “Odor Hog†on top of the stink pipe. This did not solve the problem so they installed an elbow to the pipe (picture attached). This still has not corrected the problem.
After reading in the achives others have had the same problem and it appears that the problem was the cleanout pipe had a small hole. Could this smell have been channelled to these other rooms after they sealed the cleanout with cement and caulking?
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I thank you in advance for reading my letter and hope to hear from<!---->
you soon with advise or ideas
Thank you
Debbie <!---->
Replies
is there any way you could resize the photos to a dial up friendly size..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I knew someone was going to make fun of that. I don't know how to.
not making fun..
http://www.irfanview,com
if rez finds this he's got the links and threads just waiting to go...
do a search on irfanview and be prepared to be overwhelmed with information...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
you must have a nice cam. that took 10 sec. on dsl
It sounds like they are using a double barrel shot gun with each barrel bent in a different direction. Then they are putting on a blindfold and after shooting it they are looking to see what was hit and claim that is the problem.
And you are not helping in explaining it either. Not that I blame you. But there are several different issues here. They may or may not all be related. Try to keep them separate. as best you can.
1. "Shortly after we occupied our home we noticed an odor in the upstairs bathroom. We were told the problem was the water and we would require an aerator which costs approximately $500.00. Upon having this system installed the situation improved. However there still remained a smell. Contractor's plumbers installed an “Odor Hog” on top of the stink pipe. This did not solve the problem so they installed an elbow to the pipe (picture attached). This still has not corrected the problem."
Now water would mean that it was something in the water supply. Are you on a well or city water? If a well has it been given a full testing?
I had never heard of the OderHog, but found it.
http://www.odorhog.com/
Now this is specifically for SEWER (SEPCTIC) oders, not oders in the water supply.
Also note that it is a filter and will have to be replaced from time to time. Also note this.
"If the homeowner is experiencing an odor that originates from inside the house, the problem is most likely a plumbing problem, the OdorHog� Vent Pipe Filter will not fix that kind of problem, it may make that problem worse. OdorHogs� will only eliminate odors that originate at the plumbing vent stack on the roof."
As to your question there are many "simple" problems that can allow sewer gas to get into the house such as badly glue joints or a nail through the pipe.
Now a nail through a part of the pipe (or a bad joint) that is on the "wet" side can be allowing liquid into the walls and can be part of the mold problems.
A plumber that runs a smoke test will problem find those kind of problems, but I am not sure.
2. SWAMP - If I understand correctly after they did the two drainage hole you had an engineer that indicated that it needed lacked proper perimeter drainage. Has that been fixed?
A house on a slab setting in a swamp is going to have moisture problem. All of the sealing in the world is not going to fix those. The ground needs to be drained. PERIOD!
3. MOLD
The IAQ test show that you still have mold. And to have mold you need to have moisture. Now that could be coming from #1 or #2 or some 3rd issue.
Bill I am attaching the floor plan and where the problems are.
Jacques Whitford and Associates were out yesturday and took alot of air samples. The only problem is the contractor hired them and we will not be given any information.
So I am back where I started. I feel the only reason the company was here for information for the contractor should this go to court.
Since the contractor cut a hole in the supporting wall and filled around the clean out pipe with cement and the aquostic caulking along the wall in the bathroom and family room the ordor is not as heavy in the bathroom but now appears to have worsen in the family room.
I am very suspisious of the clean out pipe.
Also under the kitchen sink and only in the area where the grey shaded area is, is there a smell and behind the cabinet is another larger clean out drain.
The shaded area in the entry way has a different smell more of a heavy musty earthy smell and I would guess that is from the ground they filled under the porch and with the water filling up in the front this dirt has abosbed and possibly that is the smell
By the way how am I doing. Do you think I could be getting close.
Thanks Debbie
Edited 3/30/2005 2:51 pm ET by debbie
alot of the questions i know we all want to ask involve opening walls and concrete. if your going to do that the repair of the cause will be simple once you find it. then you need to do alot of refinish work $$$.
did you sample the water that came rushing out? is it still open can you?? actually the scope is the best ive heard. but the air test showed mold not sewer gasses. ill agree there are multiple problems. for the sake of the health and welfare of your family, if you have the engineer back and he wants to see inside walls or whatever, show him. a year is a long time to live with poor air quality.
adding dirt under the porch? oh good now the ecosystem has food and water.
i think the contractor will next advise an infestation of mold eating insects to remedy that problem. perhaps spiders to kill the insects. centipedes.....wolves to eat the...
wow i need a nap. I wish you all the best of luck.
Your photos re-sized, ma'am.
Good luck.
Leon thank you
You're welcome. No trouble at all.Leon Jester
Leon, glad you're here. Are you using Irfanview?
If so, just for future reference, when you go to the 'image' column to resize a pic, the pic can also be lightened to show hidden detail in a dark photo. From the 'image column' scroll down to and click on 'enhance colors'. Slide the gamma correction bar to the right and it will lighten the new image pic.
Below is a before and after of photo 1.
View ImageView ImageCheers
View Image
I use Photoshop 6.0 (updated to whatever Adobe's currently got).Irfanview seems to be pretty good, I loaded it up, it works nicely.Photoshop gives me more control. I purchased it because I do a lot of graphics, and I realize that most of the woodworking community probably won't have the requirements for graphic arts I do.I hadn't lightened the pic as it wasn't mine, in the future I'll look at them and post the original resized and one that's edited, noted as so.While I don't mind resizing folks' pix, I (out of habit) don't edit them, other than cropping on occasion.Regards,Leon Jester
Did the contractor remove the materials that had been impacted by the mold? They should have.
Also, be careful about placing too much emphasis on "clean" air samples. Just because a given set of air samples do not indicate elevated spore counts, it does not mean that mold is not present or actively growing. Hundreds of samples would have to be collected for the results to be statistically relevant.
Remember, they are collecting an air sample for 5 to 10 minutes (usually) at a flow rate of 15 liters of air per minute, then trying to say that that quantity of air is representative of the conditions 24-hours a day, every day.
That is why a mold inspection is primarily driven by observations over air data. Observations should include the use of moisture meters, test holes (to see inside wall and floor cavities), and possibly an IR (Thermal) camera.
On the other hand, if the air samples do show elevated spore counts, then there is a problem, though usually potential sources are identified during the inspection.
Deb,
Looks like you got a pack o trouble and I would advise going straight to a lawyer without wasting another minute. If you don't it is guarenteed that you will come out on the short end of the stick.Unless you love the location, plan on demanding your money back, interest and damages and go elsewhere to find a new home.
I like your approach....now lets see your departure
get the lawyer. the cost to fight plus the cost to fix wont add up to the contractor. the work done so far is probably without the knowledge of their insurance. so its done cheep. if they had called a claim you'd have guys with no circulation to their brains because of the ties knocking often. if your family could get sick off of it they would displace you immediately.
No he only sanded it down and put up new insulation and resealed the existing vapour barrier. Removing the wood would mean money.