It was for $35 but he didn’t know that till I delivered the window. He seemed agitated. I thought it was quite fair. I billed him perfectly by the hour.
That was a long time ago. I think it was my second year of Carpentry. I was a union apprentice.
I did all right with that one but I never got any referals.
How much was you first “official” estimate as a charging Carpenter?
blue
“…
keep looking for customers who want to hire YOU.. all the rest are looking for commodities.. are you a commodity ?… if you get sucked into “free estimates” and “soliciting bids”… then you are a commodity… if your operation is set up to compete as a commodity, then have at it….. but be prepared to keep your margins low and your overhead high….”
From the best of TauntonU.
Replies
$12,000 was the total of my first estimate.
It was a roof project, old farmhouse. 7 layer tearoff. 20 square roof debris filled a 30 yd dumpster over the edges.
It would have been $12,500 but the HO asked to clean the tearoff up to save a little money. I gladly gave them the $500 for it.
I think it was installing 5/4 PT deck boards on top of an existing deck. I used my parents station wagon to deliver the material for the 12x12 deck.
The client helped me install the boards on. He had removed the existing decking but left every third board so we ran the decking perpendicular to the house on top of the existing decking. It went fine until we got to the last one (I didn't plan for any waste) and it was bowed about 2" in 12'.
We had to grunt a little to get that one back in line, or at least as close to straight as we did.
Jon Blakemore
RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
My first estimate was for $2250.00 to remodel a bathroom labor only. Homeowner was to provide and purchase materials. I was 18 and in college
It went ok for a first job, if one our jobs went that way today I'd be pissed.
I made out ok on it, to be honest it didn't turn out near as well as I would have liked.
Guess they shouldn't have gone with the "Low ball" guy lol
Mine was $200. to replace an exterior door slab. Bought the new door, primed it, painted it, cut in the hinges and drilled the handleset and deadbolt. Installed new ones of them too.
This was in the early 90s and it was for a little old lady who is now since departed. She was tickled when it was all done as it looked so much better than her rotted one.
And after a full days worth of work and all materials, I made like $6. an hour.
Interestingly, not much has changed in my financial ability to estimate jobs in the last 17 years. ;)
Mike
Your door story jogs my memory.
My first door replacement was also quite an experience. I rehung a solid core door next door for a little ole lady with my block plane and hand saw LOL! I did it one evening after work and didn't get home till midnight! I don't remember what I charged her, but they were thrilled.
blue"...
keep looking for customers who want to hire YOU.. all the rest are looking for commodities.. are you a commodity ?... if you get sucked into "free estimates" and "soliciting bids"... then you are a commodity... if your operation is set up to compete as a commodity, then have at it..... but be prepared to keep your margins low and your overhead high...."
From the best of TauntonU.
My masonry instructor Mr. Tungstall a Theologian,Philosopher,my friend and teacher and a great mason and business owner, would hire some of his students to be laborers/apprentices on his masonry jobs which he had contracted ,he paid back then in the 70's more than twice the min. wage which was about 2.25 per hour so I made 5.oo hr.My first job that he let me go solo on was a masonry chimney cap, he helped me with the est., gave me use of his tools , heck he even loaned me` the cash to get materials- $50.00- the job took two days, I made 200.00 minus the 50.00 I paid back to Mr.Tungstall. A lot of the masons around Roanoke Va. owe their start to that good man, after he retired he worked part time with his sons and helped some of his former students with their fledgling businesses although they where in direct competition with his sons company. He passed away a few years ago after falling off some scaffolding again working for one of his former students. When The ones that worked for him where getting ready to graduate he would pull us off to the side and we would have a talk- one of the things he told me was when you are in this business for a large number of years take the time to go back and look at your old jobs and then look at the most recent, he said " I betya a dollar to a doughnut you won't be disappointed in yourself" ya know he was/is right.
Great story homeboy. Guys like that are far and few between these days.Live in the solution, not the problem.
blue,
Ya know...those jobs weren't the most glamorous nor profitable but I remember those as they were the most rewarding.
Mike
10,000$ for a 6'x 7' laundry room addition.
238$/sq.ft.
I don't feel safe in this world no more
I don't want to die in a nuclear war
I want to sail away to a distant shore and make like an ape man
Mine was $200. Customer had a new bay window put in and I came in after and extended their hardwood floor into the bay. I've never touched hardwood flooring before that or since but it got the ball rolling.
My first bid job was for a church that my father was the GC on. He wanted me to name a price to install 50 sheets of paneling and all matching moldings in the main great hall.
I bid $10 bucks a sheet or $500.00. My Dad furnished the scaffolding for the gable ends. It took me 6 days.
It was 1969 I was 16.
I think my talents peaked back then.
I think it was around $500.00 do do this funky window that had to go thru the kitchen ceiling below. It was my 1st side job, I was in my second year. I did the job for my father in law. My mother in law was freaked out about the idea of this big thing coming intruding on her kitchen ceiling. but it turned out pretty good and I remained in her good books, and was allowed over for Sunday dinners.
I ended up doing my 2nd side job for him right after the window. can't recall what it came to, I charged him $15 and hour which was a lot more than the $10 an hour I was getting paid at work. but way less than he would have paid someone else, plus I did a dang good job if I dont mind saying so myself. I even drew up drawings and got permits and inspections to boot!
$800. I knew a guy who was selling an Emglo compressor and two roofing staplers for $500. A buddy needed help to shingle his roof.
Did the roof, paid for the tools and had $300 to boot. Felt like a King.
My first was when I owned 15% in my fathers company. I did 5 estimates for around $21000 for government housing. (they were supposed to in under 20000)
We actually got four of them because the homeowners got to pick who did the work and they opted to pay the difference.
my Dad worked FT on the railroad and also ran a FT kitchen and bath remodeling company as a second job.
we were all pressed into action at different times ...
I never got an allowance ... just any time I needed more than $5 I said I need some cash and he offered what ever job was at hand. never forced to work with him ... but great pay for hard work was always available ...
started sweeping up at 8 yrs old ... so I have no idea when I was pushed to actually bid something.
But ... I do remember being forced to collect!
one of Dad's oldest friends Emil, was/is the classic old time bar owner. He still owns a bar/restaurant/catering biz .. and was reguarded as the meanest SOB in town. Him and my Dad were best friends for ever ... and fought about something pretty much daily ... and he also owned a city block of rental apartments .. which was a constant source of steady remodeling my whole time growing up.
somewhere around 14 or so ... my Dad decided it'd be my job to present the bill and collect the cash every Fri.
Man ... that old guy scared me sh!tless!
Half his deliveries went unpaid as the grown-men delivery guys were scared of him!
and I was sent in as a young kid to demand payment in full ...
He'd bitch and moan ... No ... I'm Busy ... come back later ..
or No ... I'm broke ... come back later.
everyone in town knew the drill ... Poor Emil ... Poor Emil ...
then after a coupla minutes ... he'd pull a wad of $100's outta his pocket ...
and if the bill was $800 he'd peel of 8 ... stare at me hard ... and peel pff a $20 and crumple it up and throw it at me ... all the time yelling Now Get the F Outta Here ...
I hated my Dad for making me go thru that.
and ya know what?
I already got a deal with my buddy Brian ... big over muscled black dude .. my best friend and mechanic ... always in a torn tank top and covered in blood and grease ...
I'm gonna do some remodeling "for him" when my boy is about that same age ... and send him in to "collect" ...
'Cause as much as I hated my Dad for sending me into that hot, grease filled kitchen at the 5oc dinenr rush ... there ain't no customer now that can ever "not" pay me!
if I ain't scared of a crazy old bar owner with a loaded sawed off shotgun under the register ... I certainly ain't scared of any of the customers and/or GC's in run into now!
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Geeezzzzzzzz..that was a long time ago.
I was doing "aluminum" siding for fifty bucks a sq.
Remember the first paying job was on a house that was on the water on the south shore of Long Island (Long Beach) in the middle of the winter.
All I remember was it was freezing out and that aluminum was freezing my hands off right through my gloves with the fingers cut off and I hadda keep turning with the wind so the panels wouldn't bend.....mannnnnnnnn.....did they have airplanes and TV's back then?.
"As I was walkin' - I saw a sign there
And that sign said - no tress passin'
But on the other side .... it didn't say nothin!
Now that side was made for you and me!" Woody Guthrie 1956
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
The first estimate that I can remember was for my future mother-in-law (I didn't suspect it at the time) for a roofing job-strip, repair sheathing, reroof for $2600 in the middle of the winter. Last spring we replaced this 29 year old roof (still in great shape) as part of an exterior refurbishment. The price was $18000. We got higher bids from a couple of competitors but decided we had time to do it ourselves.
It is amazing how your perspective changes but we felt we made out fine both times.
$1200 dollars for a reroof. I remember being so dang nervous. I must of talked for an hour without them saying a word. LOL. Glad I learned the lesson over the years of listen more than you talk. All those first esimates went a little long in salesmenship.
About 1985
i was still working in the chrome shop during the day
doing this at nights and on weekends------ doing pretty good at the 1-2 day odd jobs in my neighborhood
then--a co-worker of my wife asked me to re-roof her house.( in a neighboring sub-urb)
ranch----kind of T shaped--about 40 some square. Hand nailed.
about halfway through the roof---I realize I am gonna run out of shingles-----
I had ordered enough for the front of the main house, both sides of the "crossbar" but forgot the backside of the main house--LOL.
I forget the whole price---but I do remember I " made" less than $60 for the whole thing. 2 weekends work plus the evenings of the week in between--plus I paid my brother in law to help me on the last sunday plus I didn't know there was such a thing as a "noise ordinance"---- and I had been starting at 7:00 am on the weekends( instead of the required 8:00 am) and the neighbors complained to the city-----and since I hadn't pulled a building permit-----------------------
customers were cool with it all--I did many jobs for them later which went more smoothly.
that roof was the second most " formative" lesson I learned early on
BTW--at the time I was married, had a kid on the way, and was making about $5.75 in the chrome shop
Stephen
never heard of a building permit to reroof before.
never heard of a building permit to reroof before.
Really? I thought everyone had to pull a permit for a reroof. Around here it is just more of a formality though as they never get on the roof to see if it is done right.
Probably just to pay the bills at the city office. I had a roofer call for an inspection and all they did was come and take the permit. They didnt even look up.
yeah I guess it must be a regional thing. never heard of it around here. And just this morning I was watching a home reno show ( not sure the local) where they the were saying what Home owners should and shouldn't be getting permits for. roofing they said no permit needed. definitely is a gotta be a regional thing.
It's hit or miss here.
My city, akron-------- not required.
a lot of the smaller, yuppyfied 'burbs have licensing, and permitting requirements for roofing---plus if you re-side a house-----they want a permit---and WILL NOT issue permit unless licensed electrician pulls a SEPERATE permit to move electric meter.
stephen
BTW---the older cities and surrounding farm areas--no permit/no problem------but once enough BMW's, volvos and Lexus's move into an area----it goes to hell pretty quick. LOL
mostly---it's because they want to collect income tax from the contractor for the money earned working on that house---plus the license fee, plus the permit fee.
Don't forget Steve, the tax assessor's office will most likely peruse those permits as well.Live in the solution, not the problem.
I did a tear-off in a small WNY city where I didn't realize you needed a permit. All the surrounding towns and cities didn't require it so I didn't even check. I started on a Friday, finished on Sunday and was called on Moday to say that there would be a warrant posted if I didn't have the permit PAYED for by Tuesday. Wegot everything in order for the city but I bet I only made $400.00 for 35 or 40 hours of painful tearoff. It wasn't my first side job but it was one of the first. The house was 3 away from a main road so all of the large roofing contractors in the area called the city I found out. I saw a few even circle back to get the address. I guess if they had to pay it why should they let someone else get by.
Dustin
thats funny because I am the next county north of you. Almost everyone requires a permit for any exterior improvements... roofs especially.
A part of that may be to ensure that you are licensed, because they hardly ever give a roof a thorough inspection.
When you're this good, EVERYONE wants a crack at you!
http://www.petedraganic.com/
within the last 2 months i have been asked to price 2 different roofs up near you--------both pretty much off of sprague road-----one in olmstead-----the other I think middleburg heights?
anyhow---- i looked into it----and decided it wasn't worth jumping therough the hoops to get licensed and permitted in 2 towns I was likely never gonna work in again-----plus driving 45 minutes each way every day i worked up there.
I am licensed in 2 burbs down here----used to be 3----but i went several years without working in Talmadge---so i lket that one expire.-the other 2----stow and cuyahoga falls--- I keep--- because i will work in one or the other maybe one job every other year or so
stephen
Maybe I should lobby the state legislature to make statewide licensing available so that we don't have to get a new license in every little burb we work.
When you're this good, EVERYONE wants a crack at you!
http://www.petedraganic.com/
Edited 2/26/2007 2:16 pm ET by PeteDraganic
About 1960 & working full time as a shift forman in a chemical plant. Talked one of the office managers out of erecting a precut. Told him there was no reason to pay someone else to organize his project; I would help & he could save a lot. I drew up a line drawing for 1st floor plans. He took them to a bank & lumber yard & got approval to go ahead. Fortunatly in the small Iowa town he got a concreate man who got it off to a good square & true start.
With repeated interuptions by our wook schedule we got it done. The only casualty was the basement floor poured on fill sand that dried so fast we couldn't float. We had to do a quck run to a rental place for a power trowel. He had someplaces where water would stand 1" deep.
I charged him $.55/hr and thought I was taking advantage because I had been making only $.45/hr with the crew I had worked with while in college.
Struggling to restart my 3 year old buisness after serving a year in Iraq. Still trying to figure out estimating for good honest quality work. Still messing it up all the time. Thanks for all the stories, glad to know there's plenty of me's out there.
Thanks, chuck
My first estimate was $550.00 (material incl.) The job was to build three 4' long x 3 1/2' high melimine display shelves with angled shelves to display chocolate bars. The idea being that the owner would open the top of the box of chocolate bars and simply set it on the shelf. Nice and easy, right? Wrong!
This gentleman (a term I use loosely) felt that he should be able pile up the chocolate bars beyond the level of the box. This method doesn't work so well on angled shelves. The customer expected me to rebuild build the shelves at my cost because the shelves "didn't work". Because the was a bit of a language barrier, I had taken the time to do a scale drawing of the shelves with measurements and had the customer sign off on it before I started. Just to make sure the customer and I understood what was to be built. That little drawing saved my bacon.
What a nightmare. This was my very first job of my new company. It left such a fowel taste in my mouth I almost packed it in.
Dave
June, 1977. My buddy and I started a housepainting business following HS graduation. Prepped and painted a CT home with an all inclusive bid. Goal was to net $5/hr per man. We kept track of hours, materials, overhead, etc. and it came to $5.05/hr. Dumb luck.
I painted a guys porch for 200$ only it was a Mazda...I don't feel safe in this world no more I don't want to die in a nuclear war I want to sail away to a distant shore and make like an ape man
Speaking of dumb luck.
At some point in my employment with my mentor, I decided that it was time to move on and start doing some side work. I got a lead to frame the inside of a block house. I had to install joists, ply flooring, interior partitions and wood ceilings. I really didnt know how to estimate so I did what I needed to do. I counted every part in the house and assigned a number to it. For instance, I mentally calculated how much time it would take me to pick up a joist, walk it into the house and install it. I did this with every part.
The weird thing? I came in exactly on time. I don't rememer the specifics but I think I had figured two or three days working alone and I hit the number dead on. I often thought about that and wondered whether I subconsciously fit the number to the estimate, but I dont' think so. In those days, I only worked at one speed, full steam ahead and get out of the way. I don't think I could have wrangled another second of savings anywhere on any job.
Todays a different story LOL.
blue"...
keep looking for customers who want to hire YOU.. all the rest are looking for commodities.. are you a commodity ?... if you get sucked into "free estimates" and "soliciting bids"... then you are a commodity... if your operation is set up to compete as a commodity, then have at it..... but be prepared to keep your margins low and your overhead high...."
From the best of TauntonU.