My table saw bit me Wednesday
AaronRosenthal
| Posted in Construction Techniques on
My own fault. I did not have the guard or the anti-kickback pawls on my Bosch table saw. The day before I noticed that the blade was doing a little burning of the wood, so I cleaned it and kept on working.
Inevitable happened. It threw a piece of plywood at my stomach.
Did I learn? NO!
It did it a second time about an hour later. Hurt worse, this time.
I took the blade off, got another one and put this one into the harpening shop.
Now, we all know the story, but there are a lot of new readers and posters here since I started.
I’m going to start dating the sharpenings, and send them in after (I don’t know yet, help me out, folks) X hours of use.
I’m fine, BTW.
Quality repairs for your home.
Aaron the Handyman
Vancouver, Canada
Replies
I would say after the saw blade throws the plywood in your stomach three times it is time to send it to the sharpener. So it would be X 3.
I'm not sure I would blame the sharpness of the blade. It sure wasn't the sharpness of the operator, either. I would suspect that the blade and fence are not properly aligned.
BTW...been there, done that...it sure gets your attention.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
sorry for your pain, and subsequent lesson.
Any time you need to force stock into a cutter..I emphasize force..you must rethink.
Burning of stock is not always a sign of a dull cutter..be it a TS blade, chainsaw, router etc. It may well be a binding..binding will kick back more than a dull cutter..the force you apply is directed to the force of the power..neer the twain shall meet.
Sharpening schedule is a great idea, as well as a general knowledge of the type of cutter, and the material, and the type of cut..
if the TS kicked on ya..more than once..my gut tells me it was not a dull blade, more likely a (n) error in one of the following
wrong blade
bad fence set up ( ie not paralell)
warped stock
too much feed speed
un-supported work..no out feed support or proper push stick
and last, don't stand inline with the cut!!!
Please go over in yer mind, what else may be at fault..please.
as for sharpening? I have only my experiance with my tools to judge, when it needs a lick..many blades, much respect.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Hi.
Your table saw was invented before the panels.
And is the cause of thousands of accidents around the globe every day.
Second on total amputations only to the radial arm saw but way ahead
Of the jointers.
Hi yer self new one
you CAN post to the OP ( original poster) by replying to that entity...
and , jointers are carne' too..thanks for the heads up
fill in yer profile and sit an stay awhile..caution tho' some of us don't read instruction manuels, and we also operate tools under the influence of ego..
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Opsss.I am no good with this.
The only time i use computers was at the job site.
And ii use 6 at the time. You see, they was disposing
the old computers and i was cutting plywood.
I don't know how to fill my profile either.
I am Dino the carpenter. I don't think i will be posting at the forum
But I just cant hold my self from this one(my table saw bit me Wednesday)
About the EGO. I agree with you 200%. Looks like is not just the tools
are design wrong.
Your carpenter friend
Dino
Only way to learn is to practice. I'm new to this forum too. Everyone seems pretty understanding (unless you mention using plywood for counters). Hope you continue posting.
>and last, don't stand inline with the cut!!!
How do you protect the workpiece from damage if it's thrown otherwise?
remodeler
Ok. Looks like it will take a long time to solve this problem.
Can anyone find me a straight piece of wood?
If the materials to be cut are not perfect straight, Houston we have a problem.
If the blade is not perfect,If the operator is not perfect,If the guard is not perfect,If the fence is not perfect,If you snoose while you cut,If a bee lands on you or a sexy lady walks by you,If a kid throw the ball on you,If you get the cramps,and if,and if, and if,............Houston we have a problemo..
Can you guys see that?
Instead trying to find a better way to work we try to become the experts and the masters of what? The table saw is like a baracuda.Waiting for you to make the mistake. If you open your mind you will find other ways to cut.
"How do you protect the workpiece from damage if it's thrown otherwise?"
If I understand you question you worry about damage to YOU and you can alway get a new piece of lumber if it is damaged.
"How do you protect the workpiece from damage if it's thrown otherwise?"
If I understand you question you worry about damage to YOU and you can alway get a new piece of lumber if it is damaged.
You needed the absent emoticon? It was a reply to Sphere, normal humor.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Aaron, Bro Im glad you didnt get seriously hurt. One things that happen is when when we get hit by a kick back is we jerk our hands,smetimes into the blade. I always on a regular basis pull maintenance on my tools especially the TS, align the fence, check the arbor, bearings ect, have a extra blade so I can take one in for sharpening and still continue. Becareful bro, Like I used to to be told as a apprentice and I told my apprentices :" tools dont have a conscience, they'll cut your fingers off and keep on going"...
Darkworksite4:
El americano pasado hacia fuera ase la bandera
Glad ya picked up on that to Bill..I didn't respond because I knew it was in jest..
Making two chairs today..simple camp outdoor chairs..all is well till I heard the bearings in the planer squealing...sh1t I hate when that happens..oh well..Happy Fathers day.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Glad ya picked up on that to Bill..I didn't respond because I knew it was in jest..
Always gotta consider the reply direction, as well as the source. Not to mention the near impossibility of anybody saying it seriously. But to the seesaw suggestion guy? LMAO
Sorry to hear about the planer. Hope it's not a 10hp direct drive like my heavy muthah.... But mine's available if you want to stop by. And happy father's day to you too. My fuzzy "son" gave me a card. Then drew blood when I was playing with him.
Apropos to the thread, how do you get hit in the stomach with wood off a table saw? Been a very long time for me, but I got it several inches south of my stomach, dead center. Still hurts to think about it. I don't stand there any more. Saw on stilts? Or are y'all closer to the ground?PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
closer to the ground? no way, I have a 38'' inseam..luckily my TS is on a mobile base..that puts it a bit higher then the sweets ( I think)..
Got a card too from the furrry children..lol. seems my dog mighta hurt his foot/ankle this am..he's been limpin and acting like a victim of dog abuse..looks like my gangway planks at the front door..were the problem, he got a leg caught between the planks..just laid some plywood down now, that way it'll get slick with mud and I'll get hurt.
Planer is not too bad..it's an old combination 6'' jointer witha 7' bed and a 12.5'' 2 sp. planer. Just have to order all 8 or so bearings and tear it all down, and do em all. Looks like a full days job...after over 20ys of use, and miles of wood, I can't complain.
oh, and sometimes I'll give a straight answer to a stupid question..{G}
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
"Saw on stilts? Or are y'all closer to the ground?"
I'm kinda tall so... When I built this shop about 7 years ago, I built all the benches and the TS the same height: 40 inches. It's real handy to be able to spread stuff across two or even three work surfaces. I did some custom wainscoting for a nice house here couple years ago. I pre-built it all in panels... made for an easy install. The one section that went up the stairs was just over 15 feet long... in one piece! It all fit perfectly too (I made paper patterns right off the walls to build to). Even bench heights made it possible... even easy to do.
Short guys don't like my shop much though... :-)
I'm going to have to cut out a hole in the wall if I ever hafta move the TS... It's built into a big table, and even standing on end won't go through a 36" door in the old house I made into a shop.... Oops. --- BRICK
"They say that there is a fine line between genius and insanity. I like to color outside the lines...and then eat the crayons." ~ Me
>"How do you protect the workpiece from damage if it's thrown otherwise?"
yep, in jest. My saw guide is consistently off 1/16th end-to-end, so I end up setting it with a steel rule to the t-slot. I forgot to a month or so again and still have a good bruise on my chest from it.
I have pretty strict rules for myself with power tools: no when tired (i work a lot of 14 hour days, so this comes up), and good lighting among others. Still, it scared the bejesus out of me.
I still have all my fingers and would like to keep it that way.
remodeler
One thing I'm seeing in the shops, is more guys moving to chain mail aprons (like butchers wear).....now, mostly I'm talking about ripsaw operators here, with machines going 15-30 HP, but it may be something to think about for smaller machines too.....certainly the 3-5 HP saws can kick. I know when I was an apprentice, the word went out about a guy who had just had a 6' length of wood, with a small section, go right through his thigh, all 6' of it.
I was first clued into the chain mail when an industry guy sat me down, said he wanted me to pass on word of an accident to my students...his brother had had a piece kick back, in through the front of the leg.....got stopped by the wallet in his back pocket. He was alone in the shop, had to haul it out himself. Another guy we both know had his hip broken by a kickback. Mail won't protect against the bruise from a panel coming loose, but it could prevent a wound. I'm shopping for one now, to expose my guys to it.
cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, N.S
You guys are scaring the crap out of me.
You guys are scaring the crap out of me.
Good.
Healthy respect is a requisite. I know what I did wrong to get shafted, more than just standing in the wrong place. You've already heard the perils of a mis-aligned fence, which is probably the biggest danger. 20 yrs ago I was occasionally having problems ripping until I got my hands on a serious rip blade. It all adds up to safe working habits, assuming you survive the learning curve.
Last cabinet shop I ran, one of the principals decided to cross-cut a 4x8 ¼" panel. Got away from him. No damage, but sure got his attention. Even after I showed him the proper way to feed a sheet he still wouldn't go near the saw. Of course he had me available to do it for him.
Armor's an interesting idea, but not for me. Now, for putting out-of-balance boles on the lathe.... PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
In the guitar shop we had a 20'' Tannewitz TS..10hp?
As a helper was ripping a billet 5x5x60'' it caught somehow..drove the rivit from his levi's into his hip bone..he went 20' back and hit a shaper ( not being used) and drove the rear pocket rivit into the other side of the same bone..
this was all through coverall's and longjohns and BVD's..I had to help get the fabric out of the punctures..( not pretty, on a few counts)
I almost never, use a guard..but am well aware that I choose to do so..if I was an employee, I'd insist that one be available..weather I use it or not.
actually, lemme change that..I never use a guard,,don't even know if I have it.
I have one small nick outtta my finger, making wooden sno-flakes, I had a glue joint let lose on a shallow rip /moulding operation..thank god, that's the worst so far..I started with TS's and WWing in general at about 12..43 now..
now my band saw had the taste of blood and always wants more..don't do Sam Maloof cuts..I almost lost a pointer finger doing that.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
"I almost never, use a guard..but am well aware that I choose to do so..if I was an employee, I'd insist that one be available..weather I use it or not.
actually, lemme change that..I never use a guard,,don't even know if I have it."
Sphere,
Same here. And in EVERY shop I've ever worked in.
Lot's have had policies to minimize liability/OSHA/Workmans Comp issues. Still, a guard is no replacement for common sense and experience, and IMO, often (in the case of a table saw) can cause an accident.
Jon
yessir..in a furniture shop I was in..the sec. would come in and say " OHSH!T" at the top of her buxom lungs..we'd all scamper like ants to install guards and HP and eyeware..worked like a dream..My drill was the T/S's and shapers..slap them up to specs in seconds, not minutes.
I love OSHA..but, they can get carried away
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
"the sec. would come in and say " OHSH!T" at the top of her buxom lungs..we'd all scamper like ants to install guards and HP and eyeware..worked like a dream..My drill was the T/S's and shapers..slap them up to specs in seconds,"
Sphere,
When I was in CA a few weeks ago, I spend quite a bit of time socializing with a WI State Workman's Comp investigator (senior guy). All I walked away thinking to myself, what an ineffective, policy driven, shakedown driven, bureaucratic organization.
Jon
now my band saw had the taste of blood and always wants more..don't do Sam Maloof cuts..I almost lost a pointer finger doing that.
You talkin' about his using the saw to sculpt, as in wood minimally supported by the table? I tried it a few times until I had a close call. No more. Mine's a 36" behemoth that probably wouldn't notice it took something extra.
Only one funny looking finger (so far) and it was from a Craftsman 8" table saw in 1974. Did something stupid, of course. That's how you learn. If only it wasn't so painful. Hey that's 30 yrs! Wow. 1,2,3,4,5.... 10! All right.
When I ran a small shop I didn't allow the apprentices to use the table saw. I was out one day, one of the carps came in with a rush job. Yep, hamburger time. Nothing like your rivets. Had to keep telling him jokes on the way to the ER. Afraid he was gonna pass out. I didn't want to even try to teach what I do. Seems simple, but I couldn't explain it. PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
This is a little off the subject, but this talk of biting saws made me think of my old boss and his circular saw (he called it his Skilsaw, though I think it was actually a Makita) that had a sticky blade guard. The blade guard would stay up and then when you laid the saw down it would rare back (putting real nice gouges on whatever you laid it on) and scare the heck out you! (I fortunately always managed to gouge something inanimate!) He also had a saw (maybe the same one) that had worn insulation on the cord. One day I was walking with it across a wet slab and thought I was being stung by a bee--nope, just electricity! I could go on for hours, but won't. You're welcome.
This thread and Dan's story about the worn out sparky saw have "sparked" a few unfortunate memories for me. I lived with a hanging blade guard on a worn out saw for a long time. Thanks to a moment of inattentiveness at the end of a long day back in 1986, I now live with a wide scar down the inside of my right thigh. Thankfully it was all meat and no arteries. I came home from the hospital and put that saw out of its misery with a large sledge once and for all.
I had a couple of carpenters out at my place a month or two ago using the old familiar Skill 77 with the guard tied back. I've seen that speed trick on one framing crew after another but I quit using the modified worms after my accident.
The thing is, that tied back guard was scary to me but it was still far safer than the saw that cut me because you knew not to trust the guard to be there. It's the off and on safety features that hurt you when you're tired or distracted. If it's touch and go either fix it or toss it. That "one more cut" will eventually bite.
I'll take a guard on all my saws thank you very much, (well - except for my table saw on occasion) but I'll take no guard over an iffy one any day, and any "safe" system can be lethal if you count on the safety features too much.
I consider any spinning cutter to be demon possessed and vengeful. IMHO, that mind set is the best dang safety feature ever invented.
I was really glad when my knees finally quit going weak every time I heard a saw whine though. I had to mentally muscled my way through a few hundred cuts after my accident but I knew, from my Grandfather's constant reminders through the years, that I had to get past it.
Being "overly scared" of a tool will get you hurt as fast as carelessness will any day.Kevin Halliburton
"The Greek comic poets, also, divided their plays into parts by introducing a choral song, ... they relived the actor's speeches by such intermissions." Vitruvious, (Book V)
I've got a set of clamp together AL guides and have used plywood guide stocks for years. So this system is intriguing even if just because it looks stronger than what I've seen and used previously. I may be buying one.
But what I don't get is all the claims for added safety and how a 100" guide will let you straight rip a 16' board or do half the other stuff claimed here. I don't see it explained on his website and he doesn't answer it here except with even more possibly exagerated claims. All I can do is assume that to rip som,ething that long, you need two kits to join together. That leaves me wondering how much deflection there may be in that distance and how safe it is to be ripping that board with deflection adding stress on the blade and wondering where the claims to accuracy just went.
It sounds like a decent enough tool and probably worth the money, but I shy away from overblown claims.
So I'm asking you for some first hand detals about what it willl do beyond just, "it does everything he claims"
How?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Morning Piffin...
(I'm starting to feel like a PR flack, but let me give it a shot here...)
OK, while I have not personally had call to make a 16' cut yet, it seems to me quite simple. You can of course add additional sections of track as needed, or if your need is only occasional, simply move and reclamp the guide. As the guide does have truly zero offset, the cut line can it seems to me be readily extended. There would be a total of three quite long, dovetailed, very large cross section, self aligning connectors between each section and with the long base of the saw sled I would be very confident that any deflection would be vanishingly small. In addition, the clamps can be rotated to grip the edge of the work as well as the ends, should the need and opportunity arise. You don't need to purchase an entire kit, simply additional track lengths, and perhaps clamps.
Another darn nice feature btw is that in addition to having zero clearance to the track, which other guides may have (when new anyway), his system has a very clever "foot" on the saw base insert that provides additional anti splintering action. Also, in the event that you damage the edge it can be inexpensively and easily replaced, and in the meantime since the guide is symmetrical, you can use the other side.
As to the safety claims Dino has made, in the case of the guide's use with a circ saw (the only use I have made of it myself), the design of the bar on the top of the track, and the sled's size and long mating axis seem to me to make it essentially impossible to turn the blade in a manner that would be likely to cause kickback. I think (and I'm interpreting Dino's comments here) that a major point of his safety claims are his concerns about ripping sheet goods for instance on a TS, or the use of a circ saw without a means of providing a secure cutting path.
(Whew...how'd I do?)
Regards...
Paul
Edit... This might be a useful illustration
http://www.eurekazone.org/products/photogallery1.html
Edited 6/25/2004 9:40 am ET by PaulB
Objective coments - all i can ask for. You dine fine.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Hey Paul, I see you have nothing placed in your profile.
Paul...YOU HIRED.
Rez,Piffin,Gwa, Sphere and the rest of you my friends that have an open mind good morning. (if you are readind this, you too have an open mind)
I will take a typical kitchen installation and see what we have to deal with.
The first thing is that i have to make sure that i have with me all the right tools. Table saw,belt sander,planer,miter saw,zick saw,drills,circular saw/straight edge, Compressor and guns,clamps,levels. etc.etc.I think that's good for the tools part.(I was never sure if i have all the tools with me do to 2-3 jobs at the time)
Now we have to make sure that all the tools working fine and that we have the right and sharp blades,bids.kniffes,sand paper, all types of screws and the most important tool of all.....a caulking gun. When we have a kitchen job instead of good morning my guys use to tell me...Yyyes. we have the caulking.and the sand paper and....
I wish they come up with eatable caulking so I don"t have to go without food so many times.Or sand parer snack maybe?
Before i continue tonight, anyone of you guys have to go thru this or It was just me?
Regards
Ycf Dino
Edited 6/26/2004 7:59 am ET by YCFriend
Of course I have an open mind. Look at all the stuff that keeps falling out of it.
Are you trying to tease me 'till it hurts?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Tease you? No my friend.
In my last construction Job $750.000.00 Bathroom renovations for the Essex county court house NJ I lost $250.000.00 because I and not YOU don't have the open mind to listen
You are talking to me right now. If i only have listen to an old man Tony,.......... I want to make sure what happen to me don't happen to my friends.
Regards.
Your carpenter friend.
Hi Piffin.
If you look at the time looks like my post come in
the same time with yours. And if you see close i was talking to my self. And at the one before that, i use your name because i know you have an open mind. and anyone in this forum have an open mind.
Yup, here it is, open and waiting for the light to shine in, so I can understand why it is safer to use your guide/track system to rip a sixteen footer than to do it on a tablesaw.
Really. I spent a few hours friday truing edges woth a router and guide track on long lumber. I have my own site made jig and yours could be more right, but convince me that several sections linked together would have less deflection or would be safer than a typical shooting boar.
isit because the motorized tood is attached to the system?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
At this point,thanks for even talking to me Piffin.
The EZsmart was design with my needs in mind. There is no short cuts here. The extrusion is heavy and strong enough in case someone like me steps on it. The tracks are dovetail and when you connect the guides with 3 self align connectors they become one. I have a picture from a trade show with 6 sections (25 feet).floor to ceiling.
The other feature is the clamps.By having two tracks on the bottom of the guide you can pull the wood with the clamps flat to the guide. In the picture from our web site you can see a tapered cut on a piece of wood that belongs to the dumpster. The guide don't give when you clamp solid lumber.
What we have now is the wood,the guide and the saw becomes one. And you have a better cut because the flexible antichip edge applies pressure and prevents lifting of the materials on the left side of the blade.The right side is protected by the antichip insert of the smart base.
The idea behind the EZsmart was to be able to cut anything you need at the job site easy,safe and accurate. To take $10.00 blade and cut better than $200.00 blade. To send your guys to work with out any doubts and complaints.
And who knows,one day we may lower the insurance rates and remove the stigma of 7-8-9- finger carpenters.There many youngsters out there that need us
Regards and thanks for your patience.
Well, I have had to send a couple of fingers in for rebuild, not that they were damaged in ways that the system of your would have prevented.
I'm thinking on it.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Thanks again Piffin.
Just thinking of it is enough for me.
Another day..(you need a brake from me now) we can talk about the smart table top kit. The ideal material support system that makes cutting,drilling,gluing.assembling,routing,pocket holes and few other tasks EZsmart. And you probably have made few like it over the years.
Another thing about our CO is that we don't try to monopolize on our inventions and force people to buy the whole system in order to gain the benefits.
If someone needs only the smart base or the smart table top kit they don't have to get the whole system. And. If they don't like it for any reason we take it back (no questions ask) with no restocking fees and.... we even pay for the shipping back.
We sold few thousand systems in less than one year and no one come back yet
Welcome to eurekazone my friend
Dinothecarpenter +9 others
OK ummmm how do I do that rez?
Roar!
Doubleclick on your blue highlited name in this post you are reading and when your profile comes up click the tabs.
I reset the fence. Sure enough, it was ½ millimeter tight at the outfeed side. Thig=ng works better now, but I sure am more careful.Quality repairs for your home.
Aaron the HandymanVancouver, Canada
let's see..1/2 mm is about .019 ..a 64th is about..015, that sounds about right for some clearance. In actuality, NO fence is needed beyond the center of the blade..it could be absent all together, it only has a purpose at the leading edge of the blade.
Glad you took the time to check it out..now things ought to go much more smoothly.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
AAron: My Bosch threw a piece of wood at me a few months ago. Put a 1 inch deep dent in a wall! Caused by a malfunctioning nut called the operator. Went over my shoulder on the way to wall. Had it hit me in upper regions, probably would have killed me. I wear a pacemaker, so I have to be extra cautious - a shot in the pacemaker would hurt like Heck and probably destroy it. Also take coumadin, so really have to be careful. My solution is a surplus flak jacket. It always goes on before the saw! Also NEVER use any power tool or mess around w/ electricity while alone. Meaning wife or someone else is right in room w/ me.
Glad you are OK - that really hurts!
Don
I hafta agree with SPHERE bigtime... Problems with table saw kickback are almost always operator error... not the tool. Dull blade alone won't usually cause the problem either. Definately sounds like a saw setup problem to me too. Of course, staying out of the "line of fire" pretty much eleminates getting hurt too.
I will admit being of the old school... So there is never a blade guard or splitter on my saws (I know I should). Still, I've never been hurt in over thirty years of cabinet work & building. I'm not braggin... I'm juct chicken! So, I make sure the saw is setup right.
I ain't been hurt in over 30 years either, but there was quite alearning curve before that<G>
my circular saw bit me wednesday. a couple of hours and about 20 stitches in the finger. I was trimming an I-joist and something happened, middle finger, right hand. I am left handed.
let see the problem here.
Your circular saw is right blade or left blade?
I am right handed and all my circular saws are right blade saws.
When i cut, the blade is on the other side and my saw stays on
the board. this way if a sexy lady or a bee lands on me the only
Thing that can go bad is the cut. Someone come out with the left blade
saw for right hand people idea and you ..just cut your finger.
There two options here.The first one is to learn how to cut by placing
the base of your saw paraled to the edge and plunge yous saw into the board
(This is an old framers trick.) The other one is to make a square with the offset
of your saw base and use it to make a visible cutting line or use the square as an edge guide.So If you know a right hand person with a left blade saw, explain to him and make the exchance.
Hope you were left handed before the accident!
I agree a dull blade probably is not the problem, but its the dull operator...
Something about a 10" blade at 6500 rpm, with 5 hp behind it is rather un forgiving to stuff being stuffed into it wrong... I am guilty as charged yer honor.. Glad you came out largely unscathed.
"I will admit being of the old school... So there is never a blade guard or splitter on my saws (I know I should). Still, I've never been hurt in over thirty years of cabinet work & building. I'm not braggin..."
Brick,
Sure you're not. Me neither. Over roughly the same time (and I've cut lots of wood) never a serious incident with a table saw. Two things I've always done. When stuff starts going wrong (9 times out of 10, the stock you are trying to cut is warping) DON"T, REPEAT DON"T panic.
For large pieces, try to turn off the turn off the saw with your knee, if you have that kind of a set-up. If you can't, the breaker should pop in a second or two if the blade binds.
For small stuff, train yourself to step away and just let go.
Jon
Dang good thing being bit and being hit are a whole bunch different<G> I've had a few of both, but what really got my attention was when an offcut impaled a solid core exterior door. You get wacked enough, and you learn not to stand behind the blade. Or your demise helps purify the gene pool LOL.
After that impaling, I've set all our table saw fences at slight angle away from the blade. It's a pain if we need to set fence on the other side, but that's way offset by the safety factor. And added bonuses: burning is almost nil which makes the blades stay sharper much longer.
Don't worry, we can fix that later!
I had the same thing hapen to me several months ago...
The 5 hp 66 kicked a 3/4 inch rocket directly into my lower stomach. It hit so hard that the piece bounced a full 20 feet away and smashed into the garage door. Dropped me to the floor instantly.
I seldom bruise, but this time i had a perfect 3/4 inch purple line across my stomach for a week or so.
The cause of this accident? My mind was elsewhere, wrestling with an emotional conflict.
I forgot to lock the damn fence.
I agree with other posters -- a blade would have to be "splitting axe" dull before kick back becomes a concern. Even then, the kickback would result from the work piece climbing the blade.
Very interesting CONSTRUCTION TECHNIQUES.
Now ii can see why the insurance rates are so high that some of us cannot effort.Now ii can see why the quality of life is lower in the construction trades. Keep working like that gentlemen. I think i will buy some insurance stocks. Instead trying to find a better and safer way to work, we try to find a way not to get hit in the b---s? The tool companies they will make anything you ask. What do we need next? a protective table saw gear? Or just TS underwear? OK, Lets say that all the accidents are human error. How can you control and push a perfect piece of wood on Your perfect TS and stay away from the kickback zone?
I think that's it from me. I am in the tool business and i don't want to be accused by some matsotoolfreak and his favorite brand that i use the forums for gorilla marketing to promote my tools.But I use to and I allways be Your carpenter friend Dino.
See You Guys.
Work smart/safe
I ripped a mean gash in my leg with a right hand blade circular saw when I was in high school. I now run a left blade (right hand) circular saw and keep a memory of that last saw injury in my head every time I squeeze the trigger.
You can't invent a tool that will keep me from getting bit with my saws again like that experience. Heads up, eyes opened, mind sharp - the tools will obey.
But we're always interested in hearing about a better mouse trap. What'cha got?
Kevin Halliburton
"The Greek comic poets, also, divided their plays into parts by introducing a choral song, ... they relived the actor's speeches by such intermissions." Vitruvious, (Book V)
> I'm going to start dating the sharpenings, and send them in after (I don't know yet, help me out, folks) X hours of use.
Kickback is usually a binding problem, not a sharpness problem.
But as for sharpening, just keeping track of a date isn't likely to be helpful unless you're in a factory production situation where the saw cuts pretty much the same amount of the same material every day. Even an hours of run time meter like they have on theatrical film projectors won't account for the amount of time the blade is left spinning between cuts, or for whether you're cutting new soft wood or recycled oak.
A better approach to sharpening is to look at the cut surfaces. When you see wood fibers that are torn rather than cut, the blade is dull. When you see burn marks, the blade is way too dull. With a new carbide blade in the old Unisaw and the Biesemeyer fence lined up as close to dead parallel as I can get it, the ripped surfaces look like they were made by a router.
-- J.S.
Aaron
I think a moyl might need your saw...lol
BE uhhhh
####
The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Dude - keep all tools away from the blade -
Especially that one!Kevin Halliburton
"The Greek comic poets, also, divided their plays into parts by introducing a choral song, ... they relived the actor's speeches by such intermissions." Vitruvious, (Book V)
I first visit the CONSTRUCTION TECHNIQUES to learn something. And I learn about the TABLESAW mentality in its Glory. Few months ago at a trade show i saw a teenager with half of his hand missing. And he wasn't even using the table saw.He was moving something in top of it.There many people that visiting this and other forums to learn something. The title of this forum is CONSTRUCT. TECHNIQUES . Only GOLDEN W A. show the interest to learn of (a better mouse trap). But I have a problem.I don't know What to say any more.And who of me is going to come out.The carpenter? the Inventor?the salesmen or the safety instructor of my county vocational school? There is to much conflict on me and I better say nothing.But before i go I will just remind you of this young man with half of his hand missing.
Your Friend
Dino
Respectfully YC - You've made six posts, insulted a number of regulars and have provided nothing but vague promises that you have some magic tool that will render the table saw, the number one carpenter staple tool of the industry, completely obsolete.
I can't imagine why I'm the only one that expressed an interest but frankly, it will be alright with me if you forget I asked. Thanks for dropping by.Kevin Halliburton
"The Greek comic poets, also, divided their plays into parts by introducing a choral song, ... they relived the actor's speeches by such intermissions." Vitruvious, (Book V)
You remind me a poet who said. Don't ask me any more to find out what i know. just tell me.
To prevent all accidents and the same time improve the quality of our work we have to realize the problem. As we saw from the previews posts the table saw is the problem.There is to many things that can go wrong.
Why don't we try other methods? Because the tablesaw culture is every where.My own son who goes to the vocational school told me that if is not a table saw is not a mans tool.
I am not insulting any one.I am only trying to see where I am wrong. Have you heard about the DEAD WOOD concept? Where the wood stays put and clamped under a rail and the saw moves safe and secure on the track?
What ii am talking is a guide system that can work on panels and dimensional lumber. The concept was around for many years. But it was never perfected.
Do you believe that people walking by at the trade shows and when I ask them: Do you like to see the safe and easy way to cut wood? they say..no thanks.
To tell you the true ii was surprise that you ask.I don't know if i am allowed to post the web site for the easy and smart way to work here with out braking any rules. But i will send you by email the info.
Thanks
YCF Dino
Edited 6/24/2004 2:13 am ET by YCFriend
the table saw is the problem. WRONG. As with guns, and yes it's a tired cliche, saws don't hurt people, dumb operators hurt themselves. Same with any tool. Ask anyone who has been injured by a power tool (including me)...it wasn't the tool's fault, it was me not paying attention, or doing something stupid, or working tired or in a hurry, etc.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Hi Ed.
Why you stop with the ors, OR the wood,or the fence,or the bee,or the knot, or the helper, the home owner,the student,the teacher,and don't forget the sexy lady walking by, or the blade...
.. Or the 85.000 emergency room visits and the insurance that we all pay and we don't have money left over when our bodies give up before we get old from working stupid all this years.
I am only 44 years old and my back my knees my neck and the pain killers.......and you know where all come from?
From MYTABLESAWMENTALITY. Now the carpenter come out
Work safe and smart my friend.
NOT LIKE ME.
Edited 6/24/2004 2:15 am ET by YCFriend
dude...respectfully, there are many operations that a TS excels at..safely. You cannot try to convince anyone, that there is some "better" way.
wait, you can try to convince..but not me.
you also keep saying you are not going to add any more..like someone will beg you to please post more of your higher insight..then continue to come back with some vague notion..
I dunno...check your meds. maybe lay off the yellow pills and take more of the pink and white?
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Ask anyone who has been injured by a power tool (including me)...it wasn't the tool's fault, it was me not paying attention, or doing something stupid, or working tired or in a hurry, etc."
Ed,
Very true, but even so, it can get the best of us.
The last major injury I had (6 years ago) was when a 75lbs tool ejected out of a CNC I was setting up and landed on a finger. How it happened is too long to explain, but it had to do with design of all the switches and controls on the machine. Basically a 10 position switch had to be in one of 2 positions (manual jog modes), and two others had to also be in release modes, and one had nothing to do with a tool release.. Get the right combo at the wrong time, out flies the tool.
Almost akin to if one pulled the trigger on a gun prior to loading it, and if a safety were off, and a trigger pulled prior to loading, it would go off the second you popped a loaded clip in.
For the most part, every serious injury I've witnessed has been caused by slight inattentiveness or lack of experience.
Jon
For the most part, every serious injury I've witnessed has been caused by slight inattentiveness or lack of experience.
Yep! Just like most car wrecks. Kevin Halliburton
"The Greek comic poets, also, divided their plays into parts by introducing a choral song, ... they relived the actor's speeches by such intermissions." Vitruvious, (Book V)
Ah, s--t. Here I was thinking that CNC if it ever became cheap enough to apply to woodworking would make things safer. The table saw would evolve into a sort of upside-down version of the CNC horizontal mill.
-- J.S.
"Here I was thinking that CNC if it ever became cheap enough to apply to woodworking would make things safer."
John,
I think you might have to have Sphere tell his CNC router story again if ya' missed it.
The problem with them, is they are dumb and keep on running when things start going wrong. (they will shut down automatically for a major disaster if properly programmed).
Jon
Thanks for the personal e-mail. While I disagree with your assessment that my friends here are morons I'll gladly share your site of higher intelligence so you don't have to break any rules. http://www.ezsmarttools.com/
How do you do dadoes with that system?
Oh, before you answer that, you might want to know that you are talking to some of the most gifted wood artists in the business. Not me, but most of the others in this thread. You might be surprised at what you could learn from them if you have the time and inclination to settle in and make a few friends.
On the other hand if you persist in insulting them with the condescending tone, you will likely discover they have managed to retain the middle digit on both hands in spite of their table saw mentality.
The last inventor that tried to shove his arrogance up the old Breaktime wazzoo sure as heck did...Kevin Halliburton
"The Greek comic poets, also, divided their plays into parts by introducing a choral song, ... they relived the actor's speeches by such intermissions." Vitruvious, (Book V)
OK... I can hear the cracking from the thin ice I'm about to skate on to but...
FWIW, I've spoken to Dino on the phone and via email a few times and he really is a hell of a good guy. I think that there are two reasons that he may have made a lesser impression on some here. First is the language barrier, he is obviously not a native speaker and that may complicate the point he's trying to make. Secondly, he is (needless to say) very fervent about his invention, which I think any of us would be under the same circumstances. I recently bought one of his tools, and posted my opinion of it. While I may not have the credentials of many here, I'm no newcomer to carpentry and it really is a remarkably well thought out and well constructed tool. Will it end the use of tablesaws? Of course not. Can it make a tremendous difference in the way you do many things? I think so, and I believe it's worth every cent I paid for it. I've enthusiatically recommended it to many friends already, both hobbiests and tradesmen. (BTW, I have no interest in his product other than being a very satisfied owner)
I'm sorry that Dino seems to have riled up some folks here, but for whatever it may be worth, I'd still heartily suggest you look at his products...
Whew...let me get back to shore ;)
Thanks Paul - I appreciate your buffering insight.
Dino will find more than a few friends here willing to extend their hand of friendship so long as he doesn't suggest they are morons if it has a few nicks on it.
Like I said, most of us here are more than willing to learn a new trick but I'm not willing to let a new-comer insult many of my friends, and in some cases mentors, either here or in private e-mails.
I don't know Dino but I'm getting to know the likes of Sphere and others here pretty well. They have earned my respect and admiration. Maybe Dino will too - one of these days- but my respect is a pretty low mark to measure one's success by.
When he has earned the respect of many of the guys he's been condescending to in this thread... well now, that will mean something.Kevin Halliburton
"The Greek comic poets, also, divided their plays into parts by introducing a choral song, ... they relived the actor's speeches by such intermissions." Vitruvious, (Book V)
I agree entirely with you Wrecked. I've learned a tremendous amount in the few months I've been reading this board. I'd never suggest that anyone get a free ride in the respect department, but having grown up with immigrant parents I know that ofttimes the message gets lost in the translation...
Do you have a link to the review you posted of Dino's system? I'd like to read your comments about it.
Thanks,Kevin Halliburton
"The Greek comic poets, also, divided their plays into parts by introducing a choral song, ... they relived the actor's speeches by such intermissions." Vitruvious, (Book V)
Hi Guys.
Like ii said before there to many of me ,in me . The carpenter,the inventor,the salesman,the ceo-cfo-the safety instructor and ..your friend.
My name is..Dino your carpenter friend. So If i said something wrong ...I don't know who one of me it was. But I assure you I am not here to sell tools.I don't even know why I am here any more.
But it will be nice if we can start something good after all this broken ice. Wrecked and sphere and others lets start talking about left and right blade circular saws.The myth that a lefty is better with a right blade saw is wrong.And is the cause of thousands accidents every year.
And you know what that means for all of us;Higher insurance and lower quality of life.
I sell no tools on that department. I apologize to every one for whatever wrong ii said and ii dit. is the computer,I am new with this and looking at the screen don't help either.
If ii ever get to meet you guys,I am sure we can make few good jocks about...my new invention.( Table saw underwear.) By now you may notice something about me. I just cant let it go. That's funny, looks like ii was the moron here fot telling you to let it go.
Remember the left and right blade saws.
Edited 6/24/2004 2:20 am ET by YCFriend
YC- I'm betting we might have had a better initial conversation in person. I appologize if I read too much "personality" into your posts and e-mails. At any rate, welcome to Breaktime.
Let's save the right versus left blade saw debate for another day.
Tell me a little about yourself. I gather you immigrated to the United States from somewhere else. I admire anyone with the nerve to pull up roots and pursue a dream like that. Where is your home land and how long have you been here?Kevin Halliburton
"The Greek comic poets, also, divided their plays into parts by introducing a choral song, ... they relived the actor's speeches by such intermissions." Vitruvious, (Book V)
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=20001.2119
"Review" may be an overstatement, so at risk of beating a dead horse...
I got the SGS-1 from Dino. It consists of 2 50" sections of very heavy duty, extruded track with extensions for joining them together (other lengths are available individually). All the hardware is good quality hex keys (wrenches included) and the cross sections make the tracks extremely rigid and stable. The saw sled, which can be permanently or removably affixed, is a very precise reinforced piece that comes with 2 very clever antisplintering inserts. There is truly zero offset once the whole thing is initially installed and the guide provides for tilted blade angles and plunge cutting. The design of the "foot" on the insert is such that anti splintering action is exerted both horizontally and vertically along with a very clever flexing, replacable edge guide. The included clamps are very stable and strong and stay nicely out of the way of the work. The guide allows cutting from either side of the guide. (BTW, the guide works only with RH saws). The instructions, while not flawless are very good and well illustrated. I laid the 100" guide on a granite work surface and if there was a 64 of an inch runout across the entire length I'd be surprised. The kit comes with every last item you could need for installation I think. Of the several guides I have, both shopmade and manufactured, this is far and away the nicest I've seen, including some much more expensive like the Festo. He shipped it blindingly fast, it was very well packed and as I mentioned earlier when I called and wrote with questions he was extremely pleasant and helpful...
OK... think I covered the basics, hope this is helpful in putting Dino's product in perspective...
Thanks, I can't speak for anyone else but it helped me a little with my perspective.Kevin Halliburton
"The Greek comic poets, also, divided their plays into parts by introducing a choral song, ... they relived the actor's speeches by such intermissions." Vitruvious, (Book V)
"Review" may be an overstatement, so at risk of beating a dead horse...
Thank you.
Am I to understand that the whole point is to use a portable saw guide in lieu of a table saw? Yeow! I, too, found Dino short of amusing and didn't bother following the link. Nor is there any possibility of giving up my "tablesaw mentality" in that case. Much too versatile a tool. Not to mention speedier.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
This has to be a little more than just a portable rail system.
This got my attention: http://www.ezsmarttools.com/challenge.html
Rhoadefest event maybe?Kevin Halliburton
"The Greek comic poets, also, divided their plays into parts by introducing a choral song, ... they relived the actor's speeches by such intermissions." Vitruvious, (Book V)
This has to be a little more than just a portable rail system.
Not from that link. I'm unimpressed with promises of vacations. Dino has offered nothing of substance here. Only criticism.
Replace a tablesaw? Not likely. An industrial panel saw will clearly do a better job with panels. A gang rip will do better with ripping. But for general purpose, including a sled for cross-cutting, a tablesaw is the answer. Can Dino cut a tenon? For portablility he wins.
My preferred saw is my bandsaw, but that reflects what I'm doing.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Hi Guys.
Thanks for your welcome. And please except my apologies for been. . .IFFY?
Its a long storie why I just loose it when people talk about power tools and safety.driving two friends to the emergency room and seen a teenager with half of his hand missing don't help either.
When I thought, (15 years ago) that I have master the radial arm saw,and I try to rip With it, I almost kill my son. Actually I was and he was so lucky that I only manage to give him a hair cut.The center block was not so lucky.
Any way lets get down to learning. Before ii forget GWA. I WASN"T BORN IN THE USA-I WAS BORN ACROSS THE SEA. BUT I FELL IN LOVE WITH A BEAUTIFUL LADY-AND THE USA HAS GROWN ON ME. (That lady is freedom)
I jump of the ship 25 years ago.I am an American now from Greek disent.I come to this country to make few bucks and go back to enjoy. Few years ago ii have a choice, To go back and act like others before me.(the rich American) or to stay here and give back to this society that give me so much.
And As you see ii choose to stay here because here ii don't have to act. Here I"m Dino the carpenter who loves his trade and wants everybody to work safe and smart.I become a safety instructor to my county and I start the eurekazone
In the name of SAFETY and the EZsmart way to work.
And your participation in eurekazone is welcome.
Edited 6/24/2004 2:24 am ET by YCFriend
And about the system.
Yes its lot more than a portable panel saw,table saw ,jointer cnc router and anything you need it to be.
There many FIRST EVER benefits in this system that the eye can see. One of you mention the cnc concept.This system is like having a cnc. You can do almost anything all other tools can do and anything all other tools can"t do.
On the job site you can trim fillers,trim doors,trim moldings,tapered crosscut a panel with out chipping and with $10.00 blade. Build cabinets,counter tops,straight line rip rough lumber, plunge cuts.trim floors,make fluted tapered columns, make molding stock from panels,rip cut any length,trim finished counter tops,..just about anything.
On the shop it compliments all your other tools .No offsets no chipping no kickbacks ....there is to much to go over in a day.I am still learning this system.And this is only the start.
This THING reinvents it self every day. It was design by some smart Americans who believe that the best way is yet to come.But you don't have to believe me.The first review for this Thing was #2 tool of the year.And they don't even try it.
Edited 6/24/2004 2:26 am ET by YCFriend
OK, You've got a handy dandy tool. I've done a lot of guide ripping too, but how does this make it any safer than another tool. The safety is 90% in the attentiveness and experience of the operator, IMO.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I'm unimpressed with promises of vacations
I didn't say I was impressed, just that it caught my attention. I think it would be an intriguing challenge for the Rhoadefest gang. It's a big bubble - might be fun to watch a few of the big boys here take a shot at popping it. Don't you just love the little runt that is always quick to accept a challenge on behalf of his bigger friends. <G>
Anyway, it looks to be a high quality rail guide system, one of the better ones I've seen, which has its place. For a limited budget it probably offers maximum flexibility per dollar spent. It also beats the fully set up shop in portability, ease of use for the less experienced and overall safety. It's certainly a lot nicer than the straight edge and C-clamps I use for some of that stuff right now.
I have a lot more to learn than most of you so maybe it's easier for me to appreciate a simple idea done pretty well. I try not to be overly gullable but I do keep an open mind. (occasionally) Might as well, it's a long way from full right now.
Dino and I had a rough start - no reason for me to shut the door on my noodle and pass up an opportunity to learn something from him. There is a communication barrier for sure but he has apologized for the initial offenses that stood my hair on end and I'm glad to shake on that and start over.
One thing I would like to see is a demo of the system as a CNC replacement. It might be able to duplicate most CNC cuts but I have a hard time believing it can do so with similar ease, speed, safety and precision.
At Paul's recommendation I looked over Dino's setup pretty closely. In my opinion it might be worth adding to the tool arsenal, but there is no way it will replace the well equipped shop in the hands of an experienced craftsman.Kevin Halliburton
"The Greek comic poets, also, divided their plays into parts by introducing a choral song, ... they relived the actor's speeches by such intermissions." Vitruvious, (Book V)
"I looked over Dino's setup pretty closely"
GWA,
Maybe I missed it, Do you have a link?
Jon
http://www.eurekazone.org
Paul,
Thanks,
A replacement for a CNC???
I think it would be an intriguing challenge for the Rhoadefest gang. It's a big bubble - might be fun to watch a few of the big boys here take a shot at popping it. Don't you just love the little runt that is always quick to accept a challenge on behalf of his bigger friends. <G>
Absolutely. I have nothing against a rail system, just don't see my ever owning one. But portability isn't at all important to me. I'm upgrading from my 10" Unisaw to a Rockwell 12-14". It's a heavy sucker. And a little more power than a handheld. I occasionally rip 16/4 stock (4").
And if Dino comes back with something of substance I'll be sure to read it. Certainly I don't know everything. As far as a communication problem, well, I've had more than a little experience with people with fractured English. What I saw was attitude. If it's gone, great. His English is immensely better than my Italian, but I had no trouble having a great time with a Roman cabinet maker.
In the Piazza Navona neighborhood I smelled saw dust and followed my nose. For 2 hrs we talked about the similarities and differences of making one-of-a-kind pieces. The key was, we had something mutually interesting to talk about. Italian was our only common language and I slaughter it, but no problem. He was more or less looking for help. I briefly considered it.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Hi Guys.
From what ii saw on my 25 years on the job site and at the shop, most of the accidents occurred when we use the wrong tool.
Some times by choice, some times by space restrictions,no room in the van for more tools, to heavy to load and unload, or the right tool is broken, or you loaned to a friend, or we don't have the money to buy it or we are lazy to go down the steps,....OR we think nothing is going to happen to us... because... we have the touch.
For whatever reason all of us have use the wrong tool,not once but numerous times. Some times I have to freehand cut on MY table saw fillers for cabinets.Without any tapered jig. Just me and Freud. And when things gone wrong,You can hear me saying,.. That stupid tool . But we all know that that stupid tool was not designed to do what I need .
To have all the right tools with you at the job site and at the shop,you need a big trailer and a bigger shop, People that know how to use this machines,The room to set up all your right tools and.. work to pay for all this.
And that's how you can work safer. But we all know that this is a dream. So, how do I solve the problem? It was so easy.., I remember my self saying one day...THAT STUPID ME. why don't ii think of that before? And three years later (one year after we take the EZSmart to the market) I receive the first complaint from my cowboy friend ROY from SC. Dino why don't you think of the EZsmart few months ago?
Now to answer some questions. Why this tool is safer than other tools? Because it was designed with all the above in mind. How do you rip 16" boards? why not straight line rip and compound cut the same time so we don't have to walk back and forth? How we do dadoes? why not make flutes on a tapered column with out reset the guide every time? How can this Thing is better than the CNC?By the time you program the CNC I will make a four sided pyramid from the scrap wood that you have in your dumpster.
I am not saying that the EZsmart it will eliminate any tool.What i am saying is that The EZsmart can be the only tool that you don't want to leave behind. Because at the job site almost all your cuts are, trim and fit cuts.(tapered)( And the stupid tools don't want to learn that). But the smart guide knows that.
And what makes this Guide better than other guides? The capacity to cut any size materials larger than your saw blade.Any way you want, at any place and by anyone. Safer,Better,faster,and more accurate that anyone who don't use this THING.
Never mind all the other features ( Modular,extendable,bidirectional,antichip on bothsides,universal, 0 offset ,dual tracks ,dual antichips, the smart clamps that stay on the tracks and rotate when you have to trim the trims from 0 to 1/4 lengthwise ....just to name a few.
.. Just think what you can do If you have no machine capacity and limitations to deal with every time. And don't forget my friends that this tool was designed by a lousy and lazy carpenter.(with the help of some very smart people) And ii will end here with one true story.
At one of the trade shows two guys was very impressed with the EZSmart. One of them said to me:I like the elegant way to work.Please let me have one of whatever you sell.And the other guy said: this is easy. This is for the lazy men.I don't like it.....
Tody we will ship the EZsmart to UK, CA,HAWAI, and few other places in the USA
....You guys like to know what my answer was?
Edited 6/23/2004 10:28 pm ET by YCFriend
Edited 6/24/2004 2:02 am ET by YCFriend
Edited 6/24/2004 2:37 am ET by YCFriend
anyone else smell a larry?
nah..read the thread, he's making nice..just had a ruff opening here..
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
maybe, sure seems he's trying to pimp his own product though, or at least getting there in a round about way.
Ya, I thought it sounded that way too.
And I really thought it was Big L returning. lol
Time will tell if it's just a PR push by what else he has to say about other things.
Sometimes guys get a new tool that works well and go off the charts bragging it up. But Dino has a vested interest in the tool.
Actually I might be persuaded for that tool if I ever saw one used live. It sounds pretty versatile and beats my two piece aluminum straight edge.
That router attachment looks interesting. Fluted pillars from the back of the truck? Hey, kinda got me wantin' one now.
be a straight edge
cheers
I don't see a guy looking to waste the place by dumping garbage in every thread trying to get his way. There is no comparison... Larry made himself unwelcome by his conduct everywhere.
What I did see, that got me a little bent, was a lot of strutting and condescending arrogance from a "new guy" (to the forum) talking down to master craftsmen and expecting them to respond like wide eyed school girls seeing their first rock star.
I guess I'm the responsible party who tossed Dino the rope to either climb on board or hang himself, and I'm not entirely sure which one he's gonna do yet, but the "product pimping" has at least in part been at my invitation, and so far is a valid addition to the discussion.
Yes, he was fishing for that invite when I offered it but Larry never bothered to knock. Yea, Dino's doing a song and dance, but so far at least, it's not the same old one we had to smash the radio to get rid of last time.
Frankly, it's even a little catchy... we'll see in time if he's stuck on looped play. Kevin Halliburton
"The Greek comic poets, also, divided their plays into parts by introducing a choral song, ... they relived the actor's speeches by such intermissions." Vitruvious, (Book V)
Rez...
To a large extent I feel responsible for Dino's rough start here. I posted a very enthusiastic report after I received his product. In the course of a few emails we exchanged when I had some questions, I mentioned this place and he joined up. He's never been to a forum before and well... what else is there to say? He is a hell of a nice guy, and to reiterate for the... tenth time maybe? His product is everything he says it is...
True story- A friend came by yesterday, union carp with 20 years as a foreman on big commercial jobs. I said "C'mere, I bet I have something you've never seen", and showed it off to him and went through some of the features... When he left he asked for the URL to buy one.
Anyway, as I feel responsible for part of the fuss, I feel obliged to "stick up" for Dino, but believe me when I tell ya he makes a great product. Get one and if you decide I was blowing smoke just send it back...
Ya, all is well.
I look forward reading posts from Dino in the future.
So,were we are Dino?
We finished installing the cabinets(that was the ez part) and now we have to build the counter top deck,trim and fit the fillers,the REF.and dishwasher panel, the finished sides,the island fin.panels the toe kick and scribe or crown moldings.
And ii will cut to the chase right now. Its to panful to me to go over how stupid and unsafe and how much money ii spend for caulking,sandpaper,knifes,blades for the circular saw,table saw,miter saw,and the zicksaw.(Never mind the tools)
And the time,the money for good help,the trucks, the insurance,the rent for the shop to keep my big barracudas and park my truck with the small barracudas . .... .I think that enough bad memories for one day Dino. don't even start with your wife the kids and the bills. Forget about it.
Lets talk about the last 2 kitchens that you help your friends with the installation.
There is nothing to talk about this 2 kitchens. I told them to hang the cabinets and I stop over with my fiat spider,take out the EZsmart...Done. The only problem was that i left with out the EZsmart... And no money too...(friends,) Forget about it.
One thing to remember my friends. I"m with you.
Regards.
Now there ya go and mention the L word. When I first started reading this thread I was laughing/ crying to myself thinking " he's baaaaack". He not quite L-L-Larry, but maybe a distant cousin?
Things have been nice around here for a while. Does anyone know if this was some type of record??
m2akita
Your posts will be much more enjoyable to read if you can break them into paragraphs about every 5 lines or so by hitting enter. No one cares if the proper paragraphing and sentence structure is followed, it just makes it easier to read. Welcome.
Thanks for your welcome and your suggestion.
The fact that some of us excel on the table saws don't make us better from those who have lost their fingers.
But you know what? the more accidents to others the more...we feel better? WE are the MASTERS... you see how good I am? ii am the best.look look. I don't use a guard....A good craftsman don't go after OSHA but comes out with recommendations and works with OSHA.
Now ii know what i am up against. But please let it go. And let me help you here. You can use any table saw, radial arm saw, panel saw, any saw and any tool ever made.Any blade ,diamond coated... whatever,
And if you can make few simple cuts better-faster-easier- and SAFER than me..you win $ 10.000 and nothing to loose except ...your tablesaw mentality.
Let me go and get my pills now.
Sphere, What color do i take?
Edited 6/24/2004 2:17 am ET by YCFriend
the more accidents to others the more...we feel better?
WRONG - The more accidents to others, the more cautious we feel. That is the main point of this thread, and every other one like it I've read here. I am a safer saw user for this thread, not a more arrogant one.
please let it go. And let me help you here
I'm trying, I really am... please let me do the same for you. These are some great guys here but you are not heading up hill with your impression.
If you are here to sell tools you're already sunk. If you are here to make friends, well - ok, let's start over. Maybe you will develop enough respect to sell a few tools - in time.
nothing to loose except ...your tablesaw mentality
I'll wager most here could out perform me on most saws so you're money is safe. What I could probably stand to loose is a bit of this confrontational attitude that I seem to be having a hard time suppressing right now.
Peace... I'm going to get back to work.Kevin Halliburton
"The Greek comic poets, also, divided their plays into parts by introducing a choral song, ... they relived the actor's speeches by such intermissions." Vitruvious, (Book V)
So how do you make a 16' rip with that rig?
It looks to me like a Festool take-off.
(Legalese disclamer ;) ... my comparisons to the Festo guide are based solely on my memory of it)
It's a similar concept Dave, but at least based on the Festool demo I watched, this one is much more versatile. The Festo (from what I recall) only gives you all the features when used with their tools. Plus, this guide has several very clever features that (again going by memory) the Festo doesn't offer not to mention being significantly less expensive. Joining em together for any reasonable length is a piece of cake, and once joined they are very rigid and true with extremely strong connections. Don't let Dino's rough start here fool you, this is a really fine product, everyone I've shown mine to has been just as impressed as I am...
(Did I mention this was all from my recollection of the Festo?)
Paul
Maybe the six of you could get together and have your own little safety meeting and decide which one of you is going to speak up.
;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Ya know, Andy...
The guy who does all my dedenting runs a body shop (Naturally).
But just like the doctors who want to be carpenters, and the lawyers who would rather be cabbies, he want to run a catering company. He's a good chef, BTW.
The other day he was talking about the fact I had just been to a Bris, and he wanted to know what happened to the leftovers (!)
I told him we sold them to the Italian butcher for the veal scalopini.Quality repairs for your home.
Aaron the HandymanVancouver, Canada
Aaron
and the sign over the moils office says, "we take tips".
Be well
aviThe secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM