| 21661.1 | |
| I have to put in some 1/4 round trim in one of my bathrooms today. I tried some liquid nails and a hammer/nail method but man is that not the way to do it if I want to keep my sanity. I want to go by a nail gun today from HD or Lowes. I have a compressor, I just need the gun and the nails. I’d like to get 1 gun to cover a variety of trim work I will need to do: -Crown molding -Standard baseboard trims -Standard door jamb trims (not the jambs themselves) -1/’4 round I’m not sure what size and type of gun I’d want. I made a post many moons ago about this and I got a lot of feedback for 15g, 16g, and 18g. It seemed a lot of people use 15g for this type of work, but some said it might split wood on smaller stuff like 1/4 round and I’d want 18g. So 16g sound like a good middle fit, but it seemed like most people preferred angled guns and there wasnt much in 16g. I was also trying to go oil-less if possible, but not stuck to that. |
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I have a Senco finish nailer and have been very happy with it. If you are looking to do more fine cabinetry, I'd go with a smaller brad nailer, but for general finish work, the Senco finish gun is great.
Senco SFN 40...great but spendy. Does anybody else make oiless? How about renting one for the immediate need and buying a used one off ebay or someplace for future.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=42242&item=4355399795&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
PJ
Whatever you can do or dream you can,
Begin it
Boldness has genius, power, and magic in it. Goethe
ESM
If all you are going to use the gun for is sporatic jobs about the house consider renting the proper gun for the job, many yards have a 4hr min and that should just about cover something like base shoe for a bathroom.
the problem with finish guns for trim work is you really need all 4. You should have a 15g for putting in crown, base, and doors. A 16g will work for smaller casings and is great for the casing to extention jamb nailing. A 18g is good for smallish moldings ( like base shoe, scotia etc) and a 21 - 23G is the ticket for retruns and cabinet moldings that are pre finished.
so I would figure out what i was most likely to do around the house and purchase a mid range gun and either go grizzley or rent for the other tasks.
most of the cheaper guns would work fine for occasional use, though you may curse them you will only be using them 3 times a year max.
now for a pro, Go with the best you can afford and maybe spend just a little more than you can afford, nothing worse than a tool letting you down mid job and having to run out and buy another cheap tool to finish..... just to have that one let you down later.
james
see the light..
so when does somebody ever only use their tools rarely..
proud member of the FOR/FOS club...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
When they are harry home owner who bought the tool to put down base molding in his bath spruce up and now the gun sits with a 98% full box of nails under the snow chains in the garage.
I know that you or I would use that tool far more often but the adverage joe will take on a DIY project, buy the tools , get frustrated , and never do that again or if he/she dose it will be a once or twice a year affair, cant see most quitting their day job to slam finish nails, or after nailing that base in the bathroom decide to rip all the trim out of the house and put in new.
seems to be the reality.
james
sounds like ya need three different guns... this is good...
15. 18 and 23ga guns...
I have the Sencos and never looked back...
proud member of the FOR/FOS club...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
I'm not doing any work that I believe requirea 21 or 23ga. I'm not doing any form of cabinet trims or very small trim work. The smallest I am working with is 1/4 round.
I threw in some extra things I'd like to do with the same gun,b ut my immediate needs are 1/4 round and crown molding. I have no immediate need to do any type of standard baseboard or door jamb trims.
16g is aweful close to 15g size wise. It seems people say I need 15g for crown, but I'd want 16g, or maybe even 18g for 1/4 round. Am I going to have holding issues if I use 16g on crown molding? Am I going to be splitting 1/4 round every time with 16g so much that I really need to have 18g? If the answer is generally no, then it seems i can cover these 2 tasks with a 16g guage gun.
As I expand my work load, I can expand into the other guns.
Edited 2/5/2005 12:19 pm ET by ESM
ESM,
For paint grade crown that will be caulked top and bottom you should be ok with the 16g. use longer nails and make sure you hit something with them.
you probably should use 15g but whats the worst that could happen, you have a joint open uP? I doubt you will have a peice fall and hurt someone.
about 1/4 round or base shoe, if you use the 16g correctly you should have no problem with splitting. Avoid nailing within say three inches of the end and drive the nails so that they cut across the grain not wedge between it. If you have a peice that will not pull tight on the end you can pre drill and use a suitable finish nail hand driven.
james
the 23 or 21ga pinners are made to order for 1/4 round...
thw 16 would work too.. but the 15 is risky business... the major difference between the 15 and the 16 is head size and available lenghts of nails.. the 16 is a pin or a brad.. anf the 15 is a nail... significant holding power difference between the two... look at what is available to you in both size and open a box or two and compare...
proud member of the FOR/FOS club...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
I ended up picking up this Porter Cable combo kit at HD for $300.
http://www.porter-cable.com/index.asp?e=547&p=5230
2 HP/6 gal pancake compressor, 25' hose, 16ga and 18ga straight nailers. I have a large compressor so I didn't really need another portable compressor, but these combo's just give you the most for the $$. Plus a portable compressor will have its benefits in the future.
Now, Senco has a kit that comes with 1.5HP/2gal compressor, FinishPro 32 (15ga straight) and FinishPro 18 (18ga straight). The kit is $329 less $25 from ToolCrib/Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00022HNG0/qid=1107638209/sr=1-5/ref=sr_1_5/002-6497048-7587215?v=glance&s=hi
Being that I'd like to stick with the same brand of nailers, and since one kit had a 16g and one a 15g, I went looking. For $184 there is a PC 15ga ANGLED (the senco kit is straight) nailer. I couldn't find any 16g nailer in Senco's current lineup, but maybe I am missing it. I'm sure they make a 16g gun, and it's probably in that $150-200 range. So if I fill in the missing gun from each kit, I'm probably going to have spent the exact same money.
So, the PC kit is unopened, should I return it and get the Senco kit. I've come up with the following Pro's for the Porter Cable Kit
PC Kit-Pro: when i buy the 15g gun, its an angle gun, whereas Senco kit has me with a straight-Pro: compress is more HP and more capacity in the tank-Pro: future gun purchases will be lesser expensive because PC is cheaper then senco price wise
Will the 2 Senco guns be vastly superior quality to be worth taking these tradeoffs? Or will th e PC guns last me a long time for home owner use?
I mucked up....
every place I said 16 it should say 18....
musta been not enough coffee yet....
I don't know much bout the "kit" guns... I lean toward the ones that don't care if I beat the snot out of them.... I have a lot more faith in Senco than PC... There's a love / hate fightcha to the death opinions here come air tools or most any thing for that matter... This coming from the folks that'll unlock their doors for ya and give ya the shirt off'en their backs...
go figure...
maybe a few more will chime in...
someday the the 23....
proud member of the FOR/FOS club...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
I'm definately not going to be beating the snot out of any of these guns. The kit guns from both Senco and PC are the same exact guns you can by by themselves. THey just bundle it in a kit and give you a much better deal. Evidence of some of the markup on these tools of course. You can't get the higher end model Senco's like the XP ones in a kit however.
I know PC makes some good non-air tools, so I'm thinking their air tools will be of good quality as well. I'd like to hear more opinions from those who have used PC ideally.
I could spend $300 on 2 seaprate Bostitch guns (15 or 16 and an 18), or a few bucks more on 2 separate Senco guns, and still be at the same price, just forgoing the portable compressor., which is not a huge deal as I have a 29g and enough hose to reach around the house. Getting a portable compressor has it benefits (aside from nail gun use), but I also like to buy quality tools. I'm just not going to be beating up on these tools as much as many people here might be.
esm...
this is the gun we use..
Bostitch N62FNK-2 15-Gauge Angled Finish Nailer KitOther products by Bostitch
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IIRC that gun uses those T headed nails that wound the work... they make more work than they're worth...
proud member of the FOR/FOS club...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
actually ......no.....they don't..
smaller head than a traditional finish nail... remember those ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
yup...
proud member of the FOR/FOS club...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
15 ... 16 .. 18 ...
all will work just fine.
But here's my idea ...
actually take the time to learn to work a hammer.
You're nailing quarter round ... how hard can this possible be?
How soon did you give up?
get a box of 4 penny and 6 penny nails ...
now ... unless something goofy is going on ...
grab a handfull of 4's ... and a 16oz hammer or smaller ...
lotsa people like 12's for finish ... but I love my old 16 oz estwing ...
ok .. usually I just use the 21 oz estwing instead of digging out the 16 .. but we'll pretend I'm running a house full trim here ...
and ... cut and fit that quarter round so it fits w/o nails.
if it's a longer wall ... make it a hair long ... so it bows out just a bit in the middle.
U coped the ends right? No better practice than paint grade quarter round ...
now ... hold that 4 penny nail .... unsidedown. With the head of the nail on the wood and the tip facing out towards the hammer .. and .. tap. Not a little wimpy tap ...
one good solid tap.
It should sink the head into the wood .... the exact depth of the width of said head.
Bury the head, so to speak.
Now .... turn that same nail around ... and set the now blunted tip into that divot .... and nail. Tap, tap, tap.
BTW ... hold your hammer at the end of the handle ... stop
choking up" ... I don't care what yer little league teacher said ... it's not a bat ... it's a hammer ... learn to hammer like a man.
OK ... tap, tap tap. Now .... that last "tap" ... the should set it right at the surface,
No wood "dings" ... and don't get into the habit of leaving a 4p nail "proud" of some softwood quarter round ... we're hammering like a man here ...
that's fine for stain grade oak .. this is pine ... let's not get fancy.
So ... now it's flush ... take out the yellow rubber coated stanley nail set ... that't the small one ... and put the tip in the divot of the nail head ... and tap, tap tap ...
set that nail head .... under the surface of the wood ... the depth to match the exact thickness of said head.
I'm giving ya one good afternoon to finish this bath.
I got compressors and guns galore ...
guess how I trim a small room?
I also got hammers.
be a carpenter ... learn to crawl before ya run.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
I just came across this message (53703.18) in the archives, and I have to tell you it is the best post I've seen in my two or three years of reading Breaktime. I actually laughed out loud reading it, but you also: answered the question, hopefully saved this guy some money, and taught him how to be a better carpenter.Thanks for posting! I learn more every time I login (and occasionally get a few laughs).-Rich
I had to scroll back to see what I wrote.
sometimes I DO make sense!
suprised even me ....
just hung a door last week with a good old hammer. Compressor was hidden behind a garbage can in the van ... guns were nicely stacked on the shelf above the compressor ... again ... buried.
Got the prehung nailed and cased in the time it woulda taken me to dig out the compressor. I even find myself using my hand saw from time to time!
just like grandDad used to do ...
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
If you cut everything by hand and hand nail it you tend to try and get it right first time. This is simply because it is more effort than another pass with the chop saw or firing a nail gun. Someone taught me that trick with nails years ago, so not to split the wood. The 20 ounce Estwing has been the favourite over here in the UK for 50 years or so.
"The 20 ounce Estwing has been the favourite over here in the UK for 50 years or so."Really? had a straw poll around site and found every size, type and make of hammer available. (I don't want our cousins across the pond thinking we're all hicks!!);-)
Nor would we want you to think us hicks are all cousins.
Next thing you'll be changing yur name to Imerc Jr.
ouch....Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Buck was giving good advice.
As you do.
Gotta throw the young 'uns a compliment every once in a while.
yeah he is just a kid...
but still......................... ROAR!!!!Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
BTW, would you have preferred Buck Sr.?
don't know his dad...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
PASLODE!!!
I've got both the paslode framing and finish nailer. I could never go back to pulling around a compressor and relying on electricity, extension cords, and air hoses wherever I go. The paslode works great. I've done baseshoe, window/door trim, and T & G paneling in two houses, and nothing to complain about.
Just my 2 cents